ratio of ram to processor (system build)

techtic

i'm considering buying a new computer from scratch w/ a quad-core processor and i'm wondering for a processor of this speed, what type of ram should i have?

should the ratio of ram to processor go by gig to core (duo or quad)
or should it be the amount of gigahertz or the bus speed of the processor to the megahertz in the ram?

this is the processor im considering on getting http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...?EdpNo=5619520

please help a clueless computer newb.

thanks

getit29

If going with that CPU then I would suggest something along the lines of this RAM
but the memory controler in the CPU only allows for 2 sticks of RAM @1066MHz

PNY XLR8 Dual Channel 4096MB PC8500 DDR2 1066MHz Memory - 2x2048MB
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...832&CatId=3413

Patriot EP 4096MB PC8500 DDR2 1066MHz (2X2048MB @ 5-5-5-15 timings
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...447&CatId=3413

If you plan on running more than 4GB of RAM with more than 2 sticks then go with PC6400

PNY 4GB PC2-6400 DDR2 800MHz Memory Upgrade - 2x2048MB
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...184&CatId=3412

Patriot EP 4096MB PC6400 DDR2 800MHz (2x2048MB) @ 4-4-4-12 timings
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...459&CatId=3412

eric93se

techtic, thats an old cpu to be buying. It's inefficient and uses a lot of power in comparison to current models. We can help you select components if you give us more info, budeget, uses, monitor included in budget etc.

techtic

thanks both of you for the help.

i want to get as fast a computer i can for general needs (booting up, moving folders, surfing the web, transfering files, multitasking, opening up programs fast, etc...) but i would like to be able to do a little gaming or watching hq vids (i dont know if i do it enough to necessitate buying a vid card) w/o the computer slowing down. pretty much i want as fast a computer as i can get my hands on so i never have to waste time waiting for things to load up.

my price range is pretty much until 500$, but if the computer gets much faster at 600/700$ then the time i save will pay myself back so i'd consider buying a pricier computer also.

i have an old moniter which i dont mind using (monitors are compatible w/ any system, right? or are the graphics much worse in old models???)

im buying a computer instead of a laptop because, from what i see, they get a much better bang for the buck and all they sacrifice is portability

im just getting into knowing about computers so please excuse my lack of knowledge in pretty much every subject there is to know anything about.

i dont mind using refurbished parts or buying from ebay but i dont know if ill get the same quality product as if i buy a new one.

anyways, that's my whole situation-help me out w/ what you can or give me somewhere to read up on these topics-i really appreciate it.

thanks a lot

eric93se

Sounds good. So what is the current monitors model? because it needs to be capable of 1080P if you want to watch HD videos on it.

eric93se

Okay so here's a system with a good video card, no monitor and no OS. If your a student you can get Windows 7 for cheap.

ASRock M3A770DE AM3 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard
AMD Athlon II X4 620 Propus 2.6GHz Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core
Crucial Ballistix 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600
CORSAIR CMPSU-400CX 400W ATX12V V2.2 80 PLUS Certified
COOLER MASTER ELITE 335 RC-335-KKN1-GP Black SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
POWERCOLOR AX5750 512MD5-H Radeon HD 5750 512MB 128-bit GDDR5
LITE-ON SK-1688A/B Black PS/2 Wired Standard Keyboard
Logitech SBF-96 Black 3 Buttons 1 x Wheel PS/2 Wired Optical Mouse

$507-$25(rebates)

also add the HDD (its out of stock atm) SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD502HJ 500GB

getit29

eric93se gave you some good advice on those parts above^^^^^^

but have you considered going with a DIY=(Do It Yourself) kit?

The ones with the arrows pointing to them use the same CPU that I use
in my system and it does everything I need it to do and then some and
there is a chance of unlocking the forth core also.
AMD Phenom II X3 720 Black Edition Heka 2.8GHz 3 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB
L3 Cache Socket AM3 95W Triple-Core Processor

Here is some suggestions for the DIY kits.

AMD Phenom X4 9750/ 785G Corporate PC Kit Combo Price: $234.74 Free Shipping
(NO HARD DRIVE or CPU COOLER or VIDEO CARD included with this one but it
does have on board ATI Radeon HD 4200 video)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboB...t=Combo.328150

If you wouldn't mind having a Media Center / HTPC Case
AMD Vision Premium Home Theater PC SuperCombo Kit Combo Price: $496.71 <<<<<<<<<<<<
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboB...t=Combo.328189


Athlon II X2 240/2GB DDR2/GT 220/750GB/HDMI MB Upgrade Kit Combo Price: $296.44
$276.44 after $20.00Mail-In Rebate(s) (NO CASE OR POWER SUPPLY INCLUDED on this one)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboB...t=Combo.328159



AMD Triple Core/nForce 980a SLI Chipset SuperCombo Kit Combo Price: $534.99 <<<<<<<<<<<<
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboB...t=Combo.328310

eric93se

I have issues with those picks getit29
The first comes with an out dated (crappy) cpu. The second isn't suitable for a potential gaming system, not to mention four 1GB sticks of ram. The third a crappy gpu and seagate HDD (not that their awful). The fourth an expensive MB that doesn't fit the budget to included a good video card.

A good substitute for the quad core would be one of the Callisto dual cores (that can have two more cores unlocked). Like the AMD Phenom II X2 550 Callisto 3.1GHz Socket AM3 80W Dual-Core (need a fan), or the new AMD Phenom II X2 555 Deneb 3.2GHz Socket AM3 80W Dual-Core

getit29

No problem eric93se I was just throwing some cheap ideals out there but you are correct
the first CPU is pretty much outdated. I will try to come up with a good alternative setup
for the OP within the budget hopefully but I may not be able to come up with a better one
than you selected though.

techtic

the monitor is so old that its one of those bulky cardboad-box shaped monitors with a screen but it does the trick for all vids/pc games (unless im wrong and it reduces quality???)

do i need a vid card for games/hq vids? from my experience w/ my junky 5-yr old laptop ive never had issues w/ any hq vids or playing the 2 10-year old games (diablo 2 expansion, starcraft and expansion) online even w/ a full house.

what exactly is the pro of getting a video card (is it only for the newer pc games w/ more graphics will only work w/ cards)?

windows 7 is downloadable online, right (illegaly)? are old games still playable on the new OS?

so i checked out all your links and from what i can tell theyre all improvements over this (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...9&Sku=B69-0167) kit i was considering on buying except dont i need to buy a fan?

isnt a power supply already included in the case? why am i buying another one?

also, is there a bigger harddrive i could get? right now i have 600 gig i'm storing on an external so i should probably get at least that big of a hard drive.

otherwise, i'm good except that the whole package costs almost double the one i was originally considering- are there any package deals that are super-fast but still cost less than your picks?
here's a link to tigerdirect's kits http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...=Barebone-Kits (i dont know which site has the better deals, it or newegg)

whats the pro of going quad by unlocking the other 2 cores?

thanks a lot for all the help

eric93se

So it all depends on your budget, you can use your old monitor if you want but if you want your PC to feel new then a LCD monitor is the way to go.

So by HQ video's you weren't referring to HD videos Yeah a cheap video card or even built in video will play video, but when it comes to games you really want a video card. Unless you never intend to get a modern game. You can start out with a motherboard that has onboard video and go from their.

The system I picked out is far more modern than the one from tiger. It includes an efficient quad core, 4GB ram instead of 2GB, a quality PSU, a very capable video card, also the heatsink/fan for the cpu, keyboard and mouse. Also the RAM is the older DDR2 instead of DDR3, so the newer machine will support future cpus while the old setup will be very limited for future upgrades.

Not all cases include a PSU, I picked a better PSU that is cheap, efficient and has lots of modern connectors.

If you want a 1TB HDD, the best one to get is the Samsung F3 Link. I have one and they are very good, fast enough to be the boot drive.

The quad that I picked is based on the athlon cpu line, its good but the Phenom line is faster and has level 3 cache (not a big deal). The dual core Callisto is based on the phenom line and for the price of the athlon quad core you can unlock it into a full phenom quad core. But its not guaranteed, but for you and what your doing even a fast dual core will be fine.

eric93se

So here's modern PC with a MB that has onboard video for you to start with to see if its fast enough for your current games.

combo deal cpu + MB:
BIOSTAR TA785G3HD AM3 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard with AMD Athlon II X2 250 Regor 3.0GHz
Crucial 2GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333
SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA
Rosewill R103A Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case with 350W 20+4 pin connector Power Supply

Most if not all cheap cases that come with a PSU are not good enough to support a fast video card, but it should support a slow one.

The above is $305.

techtic

from the links that you gave for the 300$ pc, at the end of the day, is the 600$ one faster? because if it is i wouldn't mind spending the extra money-even if it just speeds up the booting time.

i just saw an ad for this deal and can't take my eyes off it-is it better than your 300$ deal and if not, why not? (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...sku=S445-10058)

eric93se

What was the price? its deactivated right now. The video on that MB is crap though. Its not a true AM3 MB because it uses DDR2 memory, and it will not support a new cpu in a year or two. You could always add a video card to it though

The dual core system won't boot much faster than the quad core, but the faster dual core might boot 2-3 seconds quicker. If you want fast boot times you gotta spend ~$100 on a SSD, conventional HDD's are usually the bottleneck.

techtic

the price was about 350$. so at the end of the day the comp was an entire 250$ more just because it had a more advanced motherboard? that seems hard to believe. but if that's the case, how cheap a video card can solve the problem?

what's the difference between a duo-core and quad-core? why's the quad more expensive?

i know i asked you this before but i didnt understand your answer-what makes the 600$ system 300$ more expensive than the 300$ one?

thanks again

eric93se

The more cores the faster the cpu can finish large tasks like video transcoding/encoding. their even coming out with a 6 core cpu in the next month or two.

If you want to play modern games you will want a PC with a dedicated video card, onboard video can't play games well at all unless its really simple stuff.


Your on a real budget so either save up or get a cheaper dual core system.

eric93se

Here's another build on the cheap, this time intel:

ASRock G41M-GS LGA 775 Intel G41 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard
Intel Pentium E5300 Wolfdale 2.6GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core
G.SKILL 2GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800
SAPPHIRE 100296HDMI Radeon HD 4670 1GB 128-bit DDR3
HEC 6K28BBX585 Black 0.8mm SECC Steel MicroATX Mini Tower Computer Case 585W Power Supply - Retail Has free shipping and their is a $5 promo code on the listing.

$285, needs a HDD.

RJL65

I have a few issues with that setup.

First, buying a "new" LGA775 platform is unwise at this point because no new CPUs are being developed for this socket any more. In fact, the socket is now on its last legs.

Second, the G41 chipset supports only two memory ranks per channel. Period. This limits the motherboard to only two memory slots total - which means that you would need two astronomically expensive 4GB modules in order to achieve 8GB total. And 4GB is currently the sweet spot on a lower-end desktop system. But with only one memory module installed, that system will run only in single-channel mode. Two modules are required for dual-channel memory controller operation, which would bring the total to 4GB on that system.

I cannot support "illegal" downloading anywhere - in fact, just the intention of such downloading is grounds for a permanent ban from these forums and may also result in an indefinite suspension of your ISP (Internet access) account. But Windows 7 is legally available via download - directly from the Microsoft Web site. However, you are required to pay as much money for the legal download as you would for the retail boxed copy on DVD for the applicable edition (Home Premium, Professional or Ultimate; Upgrade or a pricier edition intended for PCs which have never had a prior version of Windows installed).

__________________
Main system:
Mobo: Asus P8P67 Pro (B3)
Core i7-2600K @ 4.7 GHz
16GB of DDR3 1600 @ 1333 (in dual-channel)
GeForce GTX 470
-LG BH08LS20 BD-RE SATA [Dec. 2008]
2TB WD Black (Boot drive)
2 x 1TB SATA Samsung F3 (RAID 0, for video editing work files)
2 x 1TB Seagate 7200.12 (RAID 0, for encoded video output)
750W Antec TruePower New Blue

techtic

RJL65:
sorry about that-i meant to say "legally." what do you mean by "4GB is currently the sweet spot on a lower-end desktop system." give me some more info please

eric93se:
what exactly do you mean by video encoding/transcoding? any big task? could you give some more example, as i'm really not familiar in how big a task video encoding is? thanks

everyone:
is there a way for me to get an idea of how much faster the computer gets once i shell out over 300$ or maybe even 600$? because i'd want to know what i'm getting better before dropping the big bucks and right now speed is the priority for me

eric93se

Most people don't need more than a good fast dual core, unless you work in photo/video, science/engineering, or other fields that require a lot of cpu horse power. Since your on a tight budget and want to play some games it would be best to go for a good dual core to save some money towards a video card.

RJL65, I know AMD is the best for budget systems I was just giving another option since the OP has not decided. 98% of users don't need 8GB of ram, its a total waste for them, the OP will not need 8GB either. Also to state "Second, the G41 chipset supports only two memory ranks per channel. Period." is false it is not a chipset limitation, there's a foxconn board with four slots Foxconn G41M

RJL65

Actually, it is a chipset limitation. Although you can fill up all four slots with memory modules, all four of those modules must be single-rank (single-sided) only. Four double-rank (double-sided) modules will not work with that motherboard or any other G41 chipset-based motherboard. One double-sided module in one slot already takes up two ranks right there (hence, the term "double-rank"). And if one slot of one channel of the G41 motherboard is already populated with a 2GB or larger DDR2 memory module (all 2GB unbuffered DDR2 modules are double-rank), the other slot for that channel is unusable. Hence, on that FoxConn board, if double-rank modules are used, only two of the four slots are usable.

__________________
Main system:
Mobo: Asus P8P67 Pro (B3)
Core i7-2600K @ 4.7 GHz
16GB of DDR3 1600 @ 1333 (in dual-channel)
GeForce GTX 470
-LG BH08LS20 BD-RE SATA [Dec. 2008]
2TB WD Black (Boot drive)
2 x 1TB SATA Samsung F3 (RAID 0, for video editing work files)
2 x 1TB Seagate 7200.12 (RAID 0, for encoded video output)
750W Antec TruePower New Blue

techtic

eric:
the truth is, i'm not even sure it's worth it for me to pay for a video card since i'm not sure i'm going to game and if i decide to, i can always add it later, right? what i want is speed. even though i'm not doing big tasks, will more ram/cpu speed up small/medium tasks i need to do? and i'm not on a tight budget-if spending 500 more bucks on more ram and a better cpu will speed up my computer by even 10% i'm all in.

will a better video card speed up anything except newer games? are hd vids and other programs that run a lot of graphics affected by having only onboard?

RJL65

First off, I'm not Eric. But if you choose the wrong onboard video, HD video playback will suffer.

__________________
Main system:
Mobo: Asus P8P67 Pro (B3)
Core i7-2600K @ 4.7 GHz
16GB of DDR3 1600 @ 1333 (in dual-channel)
GeForce GTX 470
-LG BH08LS20 BD-RE SATA [Dec. 2008]
2TB WD Black (Boot drive)
2 x 1TB SATA Samsung F3 (RAID 0, for video editing work files)
2 x 1TB Seagate 7200.12 (RAID 0, for encoded video output)
750W Antec TruePower New Blue

eric93se

Okay, AMD just released new MB's with the 890GX chipset and it supports SATA3 and USB3, so it would be great to get for a new system. If you want fast response then I would suggest starting out with a fast HDD and then later on add a fast SSD drive (as the boot drive with programs), right now they are getting faster every couple months and the price is dropping very nicely.

BIOSTAR TA890GXE AM3 AMD 890GX SATA 6Gb/s HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
AMD Athlon II X4 630 Propus 2.8GHz Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core
A-DATA 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333
SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
CORSAIR CMPSU-400CX 400W ATX12V V2.2 80 PLUS Certified
COOLER MASTER ELITE 335 RC-335-KKN1-GP Black SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

$513 with $15 rebate. In a year or so you can add a SSD drive when the price comes down and more SATA3 versions have been released and that will give you a very nice performance boost.

RJL65

Eric,

It looks like AMD has beaten Intel to the punch for the inclusion of native SATA III and USB 3.0 support on their motherboard core-logic chipsets.

Intel's software division (or rather the divisions responsible for the drivers for its LAN and the BIOSes for its own motherboards) seems to be having teething problems right now. For example, the most recent versions of its LAN drivers above version 14.6 are buggy, resetting the MAC address to 00.00.00.00.00.00 and therefore may result in a lost wired connection. And the last two BIOS versions of my DX58SO motherboard (4598 and 5020) are buggy in that the maximum turbo multiplier on the i7-920 gets set to an incorrect 25x (should be 22x) - and worse, 5020 also sets the default base speed to 135MHz instead of the proper 133MHz, resulting in a slight but unintentional overclock. I had to revert to version 4405 in order to get things back in the proper order.

__________________
Main system:
Mobo: Asus P8P67 Pro (B3)
Core i7-2600K @ 4.7 GHz
16GB of DDR3 1600 @ 1333 (in dual-channel)
GeForce GTX 470
-LG BH08LS20 BD-RE SATA [Dec. 2008]
2TB WD Black (Boot drive)
2 x 1TB SATA Samsung F3 (RAID 0, for video editing work files)
2 x 1TB Seagate 7200.12 (RAID 0, for encoded video output)
750W Antec TruePower New Blue