Old 20-10-2005   #1
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Need some HD installing help

Please don't pass out I'm posting OUTSIDE of the living room....
but I have a delima....a friend sent me a Hitachi 160GB harddrive (don't laugh all you brand name junkies...he sent it to me and it cost me NOTHING)
anyway

is it really hard to install a slave drive..and how hard is it to put windows on it..?

heres the last scan of my system....i've added a DVD writer since...
OS Windows XP Home Edition Service Pack 2 (build 2600)

Drives
120.01 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
33.54 Gigabytes Hard Drive Free Space

JLMS XJ-HD166S [CD-ROM drive]
SAMSUNG CD-R/RW SW-248F [CD-ROM drive]
3.5" format removeable media [Floppy drive]

ST3120022A [Hard drive] (120.03 GB) -- drive 0, s/n 5JT15AFM, rev 3.06, SMART Status: Healthy


Main circuit board
Board: ASUSTek Computer INC. Kamet2 2.01
Bus Clock: 166 megahertz
BIOS: Phoenix Technologies, LTD 3.05 11/27/2003

Local drive volume
c: (NTFS on drive 0) 114.50 GB 32.50 GB free
d: (FAT32 on drive 0) 5.52 GB 1.04 GB free



ok i really need some help....some of you hardware gurus please...dumb it up for me...and debro stop laughing....i heard that...
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Old 20-10-2005   #2
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Re: Need some HD installing help

it is not hard to install a slave drive at all. and unless you want some sort of dual boot set up you dont need to install windows on it. if you are just going to use it for storage you only need to install it then format it in windows.

attach the drive to the secondary connection on your primary IDe cable with the other drive make sure that the new drive has it's jumper set to slave.
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Old 20-10-2005   #3
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Re: Need some HD installing help

additional note:
it might be that you have to re-activate your copy of WinXP after installing the new harddrive, as hdd's are critical components for the system activations.

btw: i like hitachi hdd's; IBM some years before - only made good experience with those, still having my system runnning on a 120GB hitachi!
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Old 20-10-2005   #4
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Re: Need some HD installing help

SS,

What do you intend to do with the 160g drive? If you are going to just set it up as a slave then you will need to remove one of the other drives.
I would swap out with the 5g drive(unless that is your OS). I am a little confused about why you would want to install the OS on the new drive. If that is the case then there are tools out there to clone image your old drive to the new one. I see you have a fat32 and a ntfs formated drive in the same machine, I myself wouldnt do this, it could cause some conflicts.

You should also remember to keep the Optical drives seperate from the Hard drives. I mean keep them on different IDE channels.

Please post to include which hard drive(or is it the same drive with different partitions). And we can work from there. PS there is nothing wrong with Hitachi drives, I think they bought out IBM if Im not wrong.

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Old 20-10-2005   #5
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Re: Need some HD installing help

ok i know how to set the jumpers.....to make the master/slave....connections....

I just want to use the drive for storage of music and movies......

so i dont' have to install window????

I see you have a fat32 and a ntfs formated drive in the same machine, I myself wouldnt do this, it could cause some conflicts.

Cranky....one is just a system restore....
thats all is on it....


so what you guys are saying...once i do the physical install....correct jumpers and connect the IDE cable....run the software that came with it...i should be good to go???

(so razor..i didn't do to bad for a freebie?)
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Old 20-10-2005   #6
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Re: Need some HD installing help

if u got 3 IDE Device probobly your current HDD is on 1 cable and its connected to mainboard (whit description on the connection place IDE1), the other 2 drives should be on the other cable IDE2

1. check is on which cable is your drive
2. if there are other connetcion make it whit scheme

IDE1 - Your current HDD set it to master+ new HDD set it to slave
IDE2 - Your CD-RW on master + CD on slave

ohh remember to connect master drives at the end of cable

mainboard
[IDE1]:::::::[Slave]:::::::[Master]
[IDE2]:::::::[Slave]:::::::[Master]

If u set your current drive to master Win XP should Boot from it .. and win XP should start ;] + when u log in u should see near sys clock icon whit finding hardware .. that it

u can use windows menager to create partition or format new HDD

if u have Win XP ntfs + fat32 it's no problem for the OS ;]
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Old 20-10-2005   #7
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Re: Need some HD installing help

Yo S_S-

Is there anything that you want to save on the 5gb drive?

If not - then just install the new drive as the "Slave" as the others have said-

Where is your new 1640 in this configuration?

If you are going to install it at the same time - suggest that you set the sony 166s as the "Slave" and the new 1640 as "Master" on the secondary IDE channel - making sure that you uninstall the drivers - on the secondary IDE channel ONLY - and let XP reinstall a fresh driver for your new setup-

Then after a reboot - format your new Hitachi in My Computer and set it as a NTSF type drive (NOT fat 32)-

PM me if you have further questions-

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Old 20-10-2005   #8
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Re: Need some HD installing help

Fat 32 is a bit faster (~10%) than NTFS, but ntfs is more stable and more secure + diffrence in claster size, generaly i would say ntfs for data and Fat32 for OS partition
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Old 21-10-2005   #9
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Re: Need some HD installing help

I'm currently using a Hitachi 160GB drive myself (8mb cache, 7200 rpm, parallel ATA) bought relatively recently at CompUSA. Great drive so far, and the 5 year warranty is a nice bonus (vs. WD's 1 year I was used to - had a 80GB WD start 'clicking' shortly after the warranty period was over).

Btw .. I've had drives with NTFS & Fat32 on the same system. Ran that way for a long time without any prob's. But, NTFS is the way to go (until M$ unleashes their late$t and greate$t).
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Old 24-10-2005   #10
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Re: Need some HD installing help

ok so i'm lazy...i decided today was the day for installing my HD.....

I had to disasemble the case...just to get to the empty bay.....remove some lil box....i have no idea what it was in there for......attach the IDE cables...make sure the jumpers were correct.....
did all of this.....then I open the packet of information to find the Configuration cd is BROKEN!!!.......i was hoping that a restart would help the computer find it..but no..and guess what.....i can't get tech help till Monday ...morning...so i have a hard drive and the computer doesn't even see it
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Old 24-10-2005   #11
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Re: Need some HD installing help

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS
then I open the packet of information to find the Configuration cd is BROKEN!!!.......
Shouldnt Matter - HDD's especially IDE's dont need any software. Go into BIOS (hit DEL (or what it tells you )when the Machine POST's on Boot) and check whether the drive is detected in BIOS as this is where Windows draws it Config Info. You should (dependant on M/Board Manufacturer) be able to do an Auto Detect.
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Old 24-10-2005   #12
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Re: Need some HD installing help

Well, I'd get rid of the 5gb drive. It's probably doing absolutely nothing, and some of the older hard drives don't mix well with faster drives. I'd put the 160gb drive in place of the 5gb drive, and if you need to, copy the data off the 5gb drive to the 120 temporarily, and then move it to the 160.

Mixing NTFS and FAT 32 won't hurt anything, windows XP deals with FAT 32 just fine. I'd format the new drive in NTFS anyways (XP doesn't give a choice for drives over 32gb anyways), because it's more efficient, and fragments less. There's not a 10% difference in performance between NTFS and FAT 32, there is a difference, but it's dependant on file size. If you play with the cluster size when you format the drive, you can get better performance out of NTFS, depending on your usage. I suggest leaving it default, especailly if you create and delete large files like I do all the time, because bigger clusters make more fragmentation.

The placement of the drive on the cable doesn't matter of you're using the jumpers, you can set the drives any way you wish, and plug them into either spot on the cable. The only time cable position matters is when using the cable select position on the jumpers, and I'd suggest not using it. Cable select can create a lot of headaches, so use your jumpers.

Once the drive is installed, go into the bios and make sure that it's recognised by the bios. It should be under the IDE configuration, maybe on the advanced cmos features depending on the bios. It should list the hard drive while the machine boots too if you don't enter the bios. If you go into the IDE menu, you might have to tinker with it to get it to identify the hard drive. Just make sure the bios sees it. Then let it boot to windows, and it should pop up with the stuff saying it found new hardware. After it installs all the drivers, right click on my computer, and go to manage. Go into disk management, and select your new 160gb hard drive, format it and assign it a drive letter. MAKE SURE it's the 160, and not your boot (system) drive!!! I don't think it will let you format the system drive anyways from inside windows. So after it's assigned a drive letter, the drive will be ready to use. You must have service pack 1 or better to use your 160gb drive, or it won't see the whole thing. Good luck, hope that helps.
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Old 24-10-2005   #13
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Re: Need some HD installing help

ok the 5GB HD..is just a partition........with a system recovery on it..it came from compacq like that....

and yes i have SP2
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Old 24-10-2005   #14
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Re: Need some HD installing help

...ok back from passing out that you posted here
As I understand it, you wanna use this as a dump drive to keep movies, music etc...

No Need to install Windows.
You must jump correctly with jumpers Master Slave combo.
Set primary drive with Windows on it now as Master. Set the secondary you received as a Slave.
Never mix HDD and Optical drives, will lower HDD speed to that of the optical, which is too slow for a HDD to operate at.
Boot into BIOS, make sure it's detected, you might need ot auto detect.
Also, check that 5GB partition, HP/Compaq is known for putting restore images onto these lately, their PC's no longer bundled with restore CD's. so be careful, if it's empty then dont worry about it.

Anything else?
Let us know.
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Old 24-10-2005   #15
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Re: Need some HD installing help

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtacydima
Never mix HDD and Optical drives, will lower HDD speed to that of the optical, which is too slow for a HDD to operate at.
You know, I've heard that same thing, and as far as I can figure, it's just not true. I'm not blaming you, because I've been told that by a lot of people, but I think it's a load of horse pucky! I have my 120gb drive that windows is installed on as the primary master, and my Lite-On 16P9S is the slave. My benchmark results are spot on for my drive in HD tach, and sandra gives 39mb/s. I'd say it's running a lot faster than UDMA 2/33mb/s, so, it's definetly not the case in my system anyways. Here, check it out, maybe that was true for some combinations, and it could do that, but not here. I'm attaching the benchmark results.
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Old 24-10-2005   #16
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Re: Need some HD installing help

Someone corect me if I am wrong, but doesn't the controler on the master drive determine the maximum speed? I was always under the impression that the controler for the slave drive had to go through the controler on the master drive, so if the master drive is faster, no problem, but if the master drive is slower than the slave, it would limit the slave?
Fyi hitachi took over production of ibm drives (completlly redesigned) after the deathstar drives. Ibm had a series of deskstar enterprise drives that were seriously defective (something like 50% premature falures if I recall right). It completlly destroyed ibm's reputation so they partnered with hitachi who completlly redesigned the drives and took over production (though ibm still has some financial intrest, or at least they did).
I have had two hitachi 160's running for about a year and a half with no problems. On storage review, thier are 22 reported falures and 4 doa out of 184 drives (for the particular model I have) which doesn't seem that bad considering how some drives score.
A randomly selected western digital caviar 250 gig had 32 falures and 3 doa out of 176
a randomly selected maxtor diamond max 9 160 gig had 134 falures and 6 doa out of 437 dirves

By the way, did you get it working? Someone corect me if I am wrong (I usally use the manufactures disk), but doesn't she have to go into disk managment and format the drive if she didn't use the oem disk?
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Old 24-10-2005   #17
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Re: Need some HD installing help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer Slayer
You know, I've heard that same thing, and as far as I can figure, it's just not true. I'm not blaming you, because I've been told that by a lot of people, but I think it's a load of horse pucky! I have my 120gb drive that windows is installed on as the primary master, and my Lite-On 16P9S is the slave. My benchmark results are spot on for my drive in HD tach, and sandra gives 39mb/s. I'd say it's running a lot faster than UDMA 2/33mb/s, so, it's definetly not the case in my system anyways. Here, check it out, maybe that was true for some combinations, and it could do that, but not here. I'm attaching the benchmark results.
Oh yea, rip a DVD while running that benchmark...

As per official Comptia guideline, basic training, and many other dead reliable sources, mixing a HDD with an optical will lower the HDD to run as fast as the Optical. If the optical stays idle we don't always see this. In some cases, esp with HDD with 2mb cache, it is also not always easily seen. It's just a general rule of thumb to follow and within normal guidelines.

I pesonally did no testing with this, I figured why try to re-invent the wheel, I will just take the info as provided to me.
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Old 24-10-2005   #18
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Re: Need some HD installing help

Quote:
Originally Posted by ripit
By the way, did you get it working?
Someone corect me if I am wrong (I usally use the manufactures disk), but doesn't she have to go into disk managment and format the drive if she didn't use the oem disk?
OK No i haven't got it going....yet
and YES i would have used the manf...disk..but its broken and for some reason....the cd reader won't read a broken disk..(4 pieces)

i will look more closely at the bios this afternoon......i was just hoping that someone would say...oh thats easy do this ...1 ....then 2 this....and Volia.....it be done...guess its not going to be that easy ....

oh well....thanks guys i'll see about installing it that way...thanks...your the greatest...


and X-man..sorry about posting in here without warning you first...
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Old 24-10-2005   #19
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Re: Need some HD installing help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexy_Southerner
i was just hoping that someone would say...oh thats easy do this ...1 ....then 2 this....and Volia.....it be done...guess its not going to be that easy ....
1: take your pc
2: buy a flight ticket to germany / cologne airport
3: fly to germany (with your pc, of course)
4: i'll get ya from tha airport
5: i'll install your hdd (5 mins + formatting)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexy_Southerner
.and Volia.....it be done..
6: do whatever you like
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Old 24-10-2005   #20
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Re: Need some HD installing help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor1982
1: take your pc
2: buy a flight ticket to germany / cologne airport
3: fly to germany (with your pc, of course)
4: i'll get ya from tha airport
5: i'll install your hdd (5 mins + formatting)

6: do whatever you like

Now that sounds simple enough.....

Heres a screen shot of some bios info....now what?

Last edited by Sexy_Southerner; 28-12-2007 at 23:36.
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Old 24-10-2005   #21
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Re: Need some HD installing help

Here is a step by step that should work. It kind of sounds like you know how to physically install it but here is an overview. you have two ide conectors on the motherboard. One should be labeled primary and one should be labeled secondary (or maybe be labeled 0/1, 0 is primary, 1 is secondary). Jumper your main hard drive that you have already been using as master (it should already be this way) and jumper the new hard drive as slave. conect both hard drives to the same cable and conect it to the primary/0 plug on the motherboard. thier should be a conector, a longer length of cable, a middle conector, a shorter length of cable, and a conector on the other end. The conector on the side of the cable that has the longer stretch of cable goes to the motherboard. the hard drives go to the middle conector and the end conector on the side that has the shorter length of cable. It doesn't matter which drive goes to which conector if the drives are jumpered correctlly.
do the same with your two opticals, and conect them to the secondary/1 conector on the motherboard. Plug power conectors to all drives.

Thats it for the physical instalation. Your drive must be setup in the bios, but many motherboards default to autodetect drives, so for now we will assume that it does and not worry about the bios. Start the computer. After windows has fully loaded and started up, go to my computer. you should see your optical drives and your old hard drive (with however many partitions it had) but you should NOT see the new drive. IF that is what you see, the the drives should be conected properly. Close my computer.

Clcik start and open control pannel. Double click administrative tools. If you do not see administrative tools, click the switch to classic view on the upper left, then click administrative tools (I'm assuming windows xp here). Double click computer managment. On the right list, you should see storage. Double click it. Double click disk managment. I do not have an unformated drive installed to see what you will see, but if I recall corect, it will not show your new drive in the top window yet.
In the boxes in the botom window, it should show all your drives INCLUDING your new drive. If it does not show your new drive then the drive is not set up right in the bios. It will probably show the new drive without a drive letter labeled unalocated space or something like that. Go off the size that it shows to make sure it is the right drive. Be very carfull not to do this next part to the wrong drive. Right click the box for the drive that says unalocated space, and go down to format. It might give you a warning that everything on the drive will be erased. if you are certain you are on the right drive, click yes. Thier should be a box that says either ntfs or some sort of fat (fat, fat 16, fat 32 etc). Change it to ntfs. Leave the alocation size to default (unless someone has told you diffrentlly). If will effect performance with diffrent file sizes. Don not check perform a quick format. Allowing compression is up to you. If I am not mistaken, if you select yes, windows may compress files that have not been used recentlly. I never do this as compressed files take longer to read. click ok. I cannot go past this point on my computer (don't want to format my harddrives). If you cannot figure it out from here (all that might be left is deciding how many partitions to do or it may just go through and format), post what comes up. I'll be home for another hour or I am sure someone else can help if you get stuck at this point.
If the drive did not show up, post and well check your bios.

By the way, what you are trying to do here in disk managment is format the hard drive which is what the cd that came with it would have done. After formating, the drive should show up in my computer and be usable.
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Old 25-10-2005   #22
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Re: Need some HD installing help

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtacydima
Oh yea, rip a DVD while running that benchmark...

As per official Comptia guideline, basic training, and many other dead reliable sources, mixing a HDD with an optical will lower the HDD to run as fast as the Optical. If the optical stays idle we don't always see this. In some cases, esp with HDD with 2mb cache, it is also not always easily seen. It's just a general rule of thumb to follow and within normal guidelines.

I pesonally did no testing with this, I figured why try to re-invent the wheel, I will just take the info as provided to me.
Actually, ripping a DVD doesn't cause it to slow down much either. The 120gb drive is the target drive, but the DVD still rips as fast as it did if I moved the DVD-ROM to the secondary IDE channel. I've played around with placing my drives all different ways in my puter because I wanted to see if I was screwing up the performance by doing it this way. It doesn't seem to make much of a difference, I can rip a DVD at the same speed no matter which IDE channel the drive is connected to, and multi tasking is still possible. If the hard drive was limited to the same speed as the DVD drive running full speed, the system would slow to a crawl ripping a DVD. I tested this every way I could think of, because I've read it, and heard it from a LOT of sources that it would slow the hard drive down. So far, I haven't seen ANY evidence of it, the hard drive runs at full speed, and DVD ripping while multi tasking is completely possible. Multi tasking does get a little slower ripping a DVD than if I have the DVD-ROM on the secondary IDE, but it's not bad. Also, if I put my DVD-ROM on the secondary, one of my burners has to come over to the primary. That makes the buffer do weird things when the burner, and source drive are on the same IDE. This way on-the-fly copies are always on different IDE channels, and the source hard drive is on a different IDE than the burner. I can live with a little difference in multitasking performance while DVD ripping, so that I can have good consistant burns. Any other configuration does things I don't like. I wish promise controllers didn't SUCK for optical drives, or I'd move a drive over there! I dunno, it seems that this used to be a big issue, but it's not anymore.
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Old 25-10-2005   #23
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Re: Need some HD installing help

Quote:
Originally Posted by ripit
Here is a step by step that should work. It kind of sounds like you know how to physically install it but here is an overview. you have two ide conectors on the motherboard. One should be labeled primary and one should be labeled secondary (or maybe be labeled 0/1, 0 is primary, 1 is secondary). Jumper your main hard drive that you have already been using as master (it should already be this way) and jumper the new hard drive as slave. conect both hard drives to the same cable and conect it to the primary/0 plug on the motherboard. thier should be a conector, a longer length of cable, a middle conector, a shorter length of cable, and a conector on the other end. The conector on the side of the cable that has the longer stretch of cable goes to the motherboard. the hard drives go to the middle conector and the end conector on the side that has the shorter length of cable. It doesn't matter which drive goes to which conector if the drives are jumpered correctlly.
do the same with your two opticals, and conect them to the secondary/1 conector on the motherboard. Plug power conectors to all drives.

Thats it for the physical instalation. Your drive must be setup in the bios, but many motherboards default to autodetect drives, so for now we will assume that it does and not worry about the bios. Start the computer. After windows has fully loaded and started up, go to my computer. you should see your optical drives and your old hard drive (with however many partitions it had) but you should NOT see the new drive. IF that is what you see, the the drives should be conected properly. Close my computer.

Clcik start and open control pannel. Double click administrative tools. If you do not see administrative tools, click the switch to classic view on the upper left, then click administrative tools (I'm assuming windows xp here). Double click computer managment. On the right list, you should see storage. Double click it. Double click disk managment. I do not have an unformated drive installed to see what you will see, but if I recall corect, it will not show your new drive in the top window yet.
In the boxes in the botom window, it should show all your drives INCLUDING your new drive. If it does not show your new drive then the drive is not set up right in the bios. It will probably show the new drive without a drive letter labeled unalocated space or something like that. Go off the size that it shows to make sure it is the right drive. Be very carfull not to do this next part to the wrong drive. Right click the box for the drive that says unalocated space, and go down to format. It might give you a warning that everything on the drive will be erased. if you are certain you are on the right drive, click yes. Thier should be a box that says either ntfs or some sort of fat (fat, fat 16, fat 32 etc). Change it to ntfs. Leave the alocation size to default (unless someone has told you diffrentlly). If will effect performance with diffrent file sizes. Don not check perform a quick format. Allowing compression is up to you. If I am not mistaken, if you select yes, windows may compress files that have not been used recentlly. I never do this as compressed files take longer to read. click ok. I cannot go past this point on my computer (don't want to format my harddrives). If you cannot figure it out from here (all that might be left is deciding how many partitions to do or it may just go through and format), post what comes up. I'll be home for another hour or I am sure someone else can help if you get stuck at this point.
If the drive did not show up, post and well check your bios.

By the way, what you are trying to do here in disk managment is format the hard drive which is what the cd that came with it would have done. After formating, the drive should show up in my computer and be usable.

First off thanks ripit.....yes i know how to physicall install it in my case...but i did a double check to make sure all jumpers and the ide cables were in the right place and the power cables were plugged in....
that was all done correctly


after i clicked on admin tools...i don't see the drive at all....nothing but the partitioned drive that i posted earlier.....

i feel like such a moron...it shouldn't be this difficult to PLUG AND PLAY something...and its driving me insane...
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Old 25-10-2005   #24
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Re: Need some HD installing help

Plug and play doesn't nesasarilly always make things easier though I certainly don't miss having to set a dozen motherboard jumpers, but on to your problem. Adminastrative tools should show the drive even if it is not formated and has no drive leter assigned. The only thing that I can think of that would not make it show is if it were not setup in the bios. that gets tricky since their are so many difrent bios version out thier, but hopefully I can guide you in the right direction.
You are looking for an option that says something about auto detection of the drives. You need to restart your computer and hit del repeatedly as it is starting up till it enters the bios. it should be in the sub menu of one of the first few options. On the computer I am looking at right now, it is under standard cmos options. It won't hurt anything to go into these sub menus, just be carfull about changing settings. Mine then lists ide primary master, ide primary slave, ide secondary master and ide secondary slave. If you hooked both hardrives to the first channel with the new one as slave, the the drive you are looking for should be primary slave. move the highlighted area over it and hit enter to open the options for that drive (or it may let you change option right there using page up and page down or +/-). Look for something that refrences auto detect. On mine, after I highlight the drive and hit enter, it has a top option that says hit enter to autodetect. The next option says primary master (that just hapens to be the drive I am looking at on mine). It has the options of auto, none, and manual. You would want to select auto, then go to the top and hit enter to autodetect.
Yours of course very liklly is diffrent but should have similar options. If you can figure out yours from what I have said, great, if not, write down what options you have and post them. After you get the drive to autodetect, then you should see it in administrative tools.
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Old 25-10-2005   #25
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Re: Need some HD installing help

SS,

This wouldnt be a problem if XP had FDISK. So I would go into BIOS (either delete or F2 on boot up) and make sure that it can identify the drive properly. If BIOS can see the drive and windows can not, then you need to format the new drive.

There are many boot disk out there (hint torrent search), cough, cough.

Just boot up with disk and format, activate partition and there ya go, easy as pie.

You can do it, now get er dun!!!!!
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