Monitor Advice - Looking to purchase

Flying_Monkey · 27-09-2004

I need to replace my old Dell Trinitron P991 monitor.

I'm looking to purchase a 19 inch CRT. I use my computer for: text, video editing, and some games.

I firgure a LCD is not worth the cost and the problems with ghosting and bad pixels.

I was looking at:Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 930SB

ANy ideas?

Thanks.

*rdgrimes* · 27-09-2004

You are wrong about LCD. Most current models are great for games and have none of the problems that the early models had. Combined with the low power consumption, no heat, and the amazingly small footprint, they are WAY better. Combined with a good video card using DVI input, you will be amazed.

Flying_Monkey · 27-09-2004

Ok...I guess I am wrong

Thanks for the updated information.

I would love suggestions for both CRT and LCD monitors please.

Thanks.

*xtacydima* · 27-09-2004

To add to what rdgrimes said, if FPS gaming isn't on your list, ghosting will not occur even on most older lcd models.

If bad pixels is what you are afraid of, get the Dell 1900FP, I have 4 friends whom have one, ZERO bad pixels, and Dell has a 21 days customer unsatisfaction return policy, where ANY reason is valid to return the LCD unit.

If a CRT is what you seek, any model will cover your needs, but I would avoid Sony, I hate those two little lines the bugger creates.

*rdgrimes* · 27-09-2004

If cost is not the primary concern, iiyama gets my vote. They are awesome. Keep in mind that a 19" CRT has about a 17.5" viewable image, so a 17" LCD will be very comparable.

*xtacydima* · 27-09-2004

I would think if considering a 17" LCD, I would opt for the new 12ms response time ones, even faster than 16ms, and no ghosting possible at all even in FPS games!!!

Flying_Monkey · 27-09-2004

Flying_Monkey · 27-09-2004

Wow...this is great info...thank you

I may be able to afford a LCD 17 inch.... Ihad no idea the screen size would be comprable....

I have gift certificate for Amazon so I would like to order from them or I would go for the DELL any suggestions for LCD brands. The Sony has a nice look but seems overpriced like most of Sony's goods.

*zazonz* · 28-09-2004

Office Depot has 19" KDS flat screen for $68, after rebate.

http://www.officedepot.com/ddSKU.do?level=SK&id=558866

Apply coupon 82593949 for $30 off, then there is $80 in rebates. Shipping is free.

*Stoner* · 28-09-2004

Dell's LCDs use Samsung screens, we have the 19" in the lab. Good stuff. If you're gonna get it from amazon, check out the Samsung LCDs.

*xtacydima* · 28-09-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoner

Dell's LCDs use Samsung screens, we have the 19" in the lab. Good stuff. If you're gonna get it from amazon, check out the Samsung LCDs.

As well as Planar and Phillips. Dell doesn't really make their own LCD's, they just rebadge.

Check the 12ms response time LCD 17" units, for only a little more in price you get a lot more in performance. Google for them.

*Stoner* · 28-09-2004

This is the 2nd time you mentioned 12ms LCDs, but where are the actual links to purchase them? Have you used one of these 12ms LCDs?

And yes, I think just about everybody on the internet knows Dell uses rebadged Samsung by now.

*xtacydima* · 28-09-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoner

This is the 2nd time you mentioned 12ms LCDs, but where are the actual links to purchase them? Have you used one of these 12ms LCDs?

And yes, I think just about everybody on the internet knows Dell uses rebadged Samsung by now.

Google is your friend, I saw one for review on TomsHardware, the review was amazing, and no I have not personally used one, but after the review of 16ms I went out and bought one and its just like toms review, lives up to its name.

[update]
this is the one I remember was reviewed:
http://www.shentech.com/befp171212lc1.html
there was anonther, some weird name, dont remember now

[/update]

[update2]
found the review:
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/dis...13/lcd-01.html
&
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/dis...13/lcd-03.html

OHH and the strange name I couldn't remembr was "Hydis"
[/update2]

*xtacydima* · 29-09-2004

Dell e173FP 16ms 17" LCD Monitor $379 - $100 coupon code: 3HMT105G22PFMN + $13 shipping = $292 shipped [xPricer review]

Source

*cerberus* · 29-09-2004

Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 930SB is indeed a very good monitor.
i have a diamond pro 900u for some years and im very pleased with it.
look at hitachi , they have some really good monitors.
and dont forget about dead pixels in LCD.

Flying_Monkey · 29-09-2004

Is the DELL 1703FP 17" a 16 ms or 25 ms monitor. I know the 19" is 25 ms. Will you see ghosting at the 25 ms level?

I like the 600:1 conrast level of the Dell 1703Fp, I just hope its' 16ms.

*Halcyon* · 29-09-2004

Do not get hung on 12ms, 16ms, 25ms and other marketing 'response time' labels.

The measurement standards and particularly methods are so lax that they allow manufacturers basically put any response times in they marketing literature and then produce corresponding measurements on purpose. Often these measurements have nothing to do with the real world performance of that unit, after proper calibration.

For ghosting, grey-to-grey transition is what matters to the human visual system.

Most TFTs produce 2-10 times slower transition times from grey-to-grey than with TRON+TROFF (total response time ON + OFF).

As such, the best way is to find a test that actually subjectively measures the ghosting OR which uses spectrometers to measure grey-to-grey transition times (THG, c't magazin, X-bit Labs, etc).

Modern TFTs are best for gaming and basic office work.

For hardcore image editing and color critical tasks CRTs are still unsurpassed (see Sony Artisan, Mitsu 2070, Barco Professional Calibrator, etc) both in viewing angle, color constancy and shadow detail / shading.

This will change in time, but currently not even the best of Eizo ColorEdge series can pass the mustard in serious image editing. The jury is still out on the Nec 2180WG (Eizo CG220), but preliminary first hand test indicate it's still no match for Sony Artisan.

Just FYI.

Flying_Monkey · 29-09-2004

Thank you to all who have replied. The past few days have been an education in monitor technology. With the help of the one day rebates xtacydima turned me on to I have ordere the DEll 19". The rebate knocked the price down close to $500 and although more than I wanted to spend, after all the advice I have been given it's probably best to jump into the LCD world now for a couple of hundred dollars more and get a monitor that is bigger and nicer than I have now and if I'm lucky I can carry over to my next cpu upgrade in a few years.

So,

Thank you everyone for your advice and thakn you xtacydima for your rebate link. That link put a 19" in my price range for the first time.

*xtacydima* · 29-09-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying_Monkey

Thank you to all who have replied. The past few days have been an education in monitor technology. With the help of the one day rebates xtacydima turned me on to I have ordere the DEll 19". The rebate knocked the price down close to $500 and although more than I wanted to spend, after all the advice I have been given it's probably best to jump into the LCD world now for a couple of hundred dollars more and get a monitor that is bigger and nicer than I have now and if I'm lucky I can carry over to my next cpu upgrade in a few years.

So,

Thank you everyone for your advice and thakn you xtacydima for your rebate link. That link put a 19" in my price range for the first time.

Chances are you won't be dissapointed, the 19" FP1901 is known to almost never arrive with dead pixels and with Dell's 21 day return or exchange policy, this will make it even easier.

Enjoy the new toy!!!

*DiiZzY* · 29-09-2004

Beware of the ms rating, it's not something that you should rely on when purschasing LCDs.
//Danne

Flying_Monkey · 29-09-2004

woohoo! Can't wait....

*xtacydima* · 29-09-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halcyon

Do not get hung on 12ms, 16ms, 25ms and other marketing 'response time' labels.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiiZzY

Beware of the ms rating, it's not something that you should rely on when purschasing LCDs.
//Danne

This is what I paid much attention to and don't regret a single second of it, my two previous 19" LCD's were 25ms and I was not impressed, as well as unhappy.
My new 16ms LCD I am very happy with and see a huge change in results. My friends 17" 16ms LCD has the same results mine does, and I think its actually 1 of 3 major factors to look at personally.

@Hayclon
Dunno, but THG did do reviews on most 25ms vs 16ms LCD's and the overall opinion was that 16ms LCD's are better as far as ghosting and trails are concerned.

*DiiZzY* · 30-09-2004

@ xtacydima
If you read reviews you'll soon find out that it doesn't mean a jack, some with lower ratings are just as bad as those with higher etc.

I'd put up a warning finger about Toms Hardware Guide, they aren't all that reliable.
//Danne

*xtacydima* · 30-09-2004

Im sorry you feel this way, as my personal experience proves otherwise on 3 seperate accounts, all LCD's, as well as my friends experience on one account for a mainboard. After such positive experiences, the only finger I can give for THG is to point anyone and everyone I know to it.

Have you yet had a chance to see any of these LCD's for yourself, firsthand, as I have?

Sodom · 30-09-2004

I like LCD's because they're compact, but the issue I have with them, is the price you have to pay for it.

I like 17 inch Flatrons from LG. For the price of 165 bucks you get a really good monitor.

27-09-2004	#1
Flying_Monkey New on Forum Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 19	Monitor Advice - Looking to purchase I need to replace my old Dell Trinitron P991 monitor. I'm looking to purchase a 19 inch CRT. I use my computer for: text, video editing, and some games. I firgure a LCD is not worth the cost and the problems with ghosting and bad pixels. I was looking at:Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 930SB ANy ideas? Thanks.

27-09-2004	#2
rdgrimes Retired Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Deadwood Posts: 11,533	Re: Monitor Advice - Looking to purchase You are wrong about LCD. Most current models are great for games and have none of the problems that the early models had. Combined with the low power consumption, no heat, and the amazingly small footprint, they are WAY better. Combined with a good video card using DVI input, you will be amazed.

27-09-2004	#3
Flying_Monkey New on Forum Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 19	Re: Monitor Advice - Looking to purchase Ok...I guess I am wrong Thanks for the updated information. I would love suggestions for both CRT and LCD monitors please. Thanks.

27-09-2004	#4
xtacydima Former Moderator Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 4,009	Re: Monitor Advice - Looking to purchase To add to what rdgrimes said, if FPS gaming isn't on your list, ghosting will not occur even on most older lcd models. If bad pixels is what you are afraid of, get the Dell 1900FP, I have 4 friends whom have one, ZERO bad pixels, and Dell has a 21 days customer unsatisfaction return policy, where ANY reason is valid to return the LCD unit. If a CRT is what you seek, any model will cover your needs, but I would avoid Sony, I hate those two little lines the bugger creates. __________________ My Rig: Corsair Obsidian 750D Corsair HX Series CMPSU-1000HX 1000W PSU Intel Core i7-3770K Ivy Bridge 3.5GHz running Win7 Ultimate 64bit Corsair H50 Hydro Cooler CWCH50 Intel BOXDZ77GA70K LGA 1155 Intel Z77 motherboard Corsair DOMINATOR 16GB (4 x 4GB) ASUS ENGTX570 DCII/2DIS/1280MD5 GeForce GTX 570 (Fermi) 1280MB 320-bit GDDR5 SAMSUNG 840 Pro 512GB Series MZ-7PD512BW WD Caviar Black 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s WD Caviar Black 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s ASUS DRW-24B1ST Pioneer BD-RW BDR-206D *when needed...* Lite-On LTR-52246S 6S0F (via USB 2.0 to IDE) Lite-On JLMS XJ-HD166S DS1C (via USB 2.0 to IDE) *NEC 3500AG 2.TC Quiet* (via USB 2.0 to IDE) Lite-On SOHW 1673S JS07 (via USB 2.0 to IDE) Found a Solution here helpful? Like the forum's? Well then, what are you waiting for JOIN NOW**!!!

27-09-2004	#5
rdgrimes Retired Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Deadwood Posts: 11,533	Re: Monitor Advice - Looking to purchase If cost is not the primary concern, iiyama gets my vote. They are awesome. Keep in mind that a 19" CRT has about a 17.5" viewable image, so a 17" LCD will be very comparable.

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28-09-2004	#9
zazonz MyCE Resident Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Center of North America Posts: 538	Re: Monitor Advice - Looking to purchase Office Depot has 19" KDS flat screen for $68, after rebate. http://www.officedepot.com/ddSKU.do?level=SK&id=558866 Apply coupon 82593949 for $30 off, then there is $80 in rebates. Shipping is free. __________________ Desktop - Custom Phenom II x6 Laptop - ThinkPad X200t

28-09-2004	#10
Stoner CD Freaks Troll Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 2,373	Re: Monitor Advice - Looking to purchase Dell's LCDs use Samsung screens, we have the 19" in the lab. Good stuff. If you're gonna get it from amazon, check out the Samsung LCDs.

29-09-2004	#14
xtacydima Former Moderator Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 4,009	Re: Monitor Advice - Looking to purchase Dell e173FP 16ms 17" LCD Monitor $379 - $100 coupon code: 3HMT105G22PFMN + $13 shipping = $292 shipped [xPricer review] Source __________________ My Rig: Corsair Obsidian 750D Corsair HX Series CMPSU-1000HX 1000W PSU Intel Core i7-3770K Ivy Bridge 3.5GHz running Win7 Ultimate 64bit Corsair H50 Hydro Cooler CWCH50 Intel BOXDZ77GA70K LGA 1155 Intel Z77 motherboard Corsair DOMINATOR 16GB (4 x 4GB) ASUS ENGTX570 DCII/2DIS/1280MD5 GeForce GTX 570 (Fermi) 1280MB 320-bit GDDR5 SAMSUNG 840 Pro 512GB Series MZ-7PD512BW WD Caviar Black 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s WD Caviar Black 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s ASUS DRW-24B1ST Pioneer BD-RW BDR-206D *when needed...* Lite-On LTR-52246S 6S0F (via USB 2.0 to IDE) Lite-On JLMS XJ-HD166S DS1C (via USB 2.0 to IDE) *NEC 3500AG 2.TC Quiet* (via USB 2.0 to IDE) Lite-On SOHW 1673S JS07 (via USB 2.0 to IDE) Found a Solution here helpful? Like the forum's? Well then, what are you waiting for JOIN NOW**!!!

29-09-2004	#15
cerberus MyCE Resident Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,158	Re: Monitor Advice - Looking to purchase Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 930SB is indeed a very good monitor. i have a diamond pro 900u for some years and im very pleased with it. look at hitachi , they have some really good monitors. and dont forget about dead pixels in LCD. __________________ Pioneer DVR-216D

29-09-2004	#17
Halcyon MyCE Resident Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 504	Re: Monitor Advice - Looking to purchase Do not get hung on 12ms, 16ms, 25ms and other marketing 'response time' labels. The measurement standards and particularly methods are so lax that they allow manufacturers basically put any response times in they marketing literature and then produce corresponding measurements on purpose. Often these measurements have nothing to do with the real world performance of that unit, after proper calibration. For ghosting, grey-to-grey transition is what matters to the human visual system. Most TFTs produce 2-10 times slower transition times from grey-to-grey than with TRON+TROFF (total response time ON + OFF). As such, the best way is to find a test that actually subjectively measures the ghosting OR which uses spectrometers to measure grey-to-grey transition times (THG, c't magazin, X-bit Labs, etc). Modern TFTs are best for gaming and basic office work. For hardcore image editing and color critical tasks CRTs are still unsurpassed (see Sony Artisan, Mitsu 2070, Barco Professional Calibrator, etc) both in viewing angle, color constancy and shadow detail / shading. This will change in time, but currently not even the best of Eizo ColorEdge series can pass the mustard in serious image editing. The jury is still out on the Nec 2180WG (Eizo CG220), but preliminary first hand test indicate it's still no match for Sony Artisan. Just FYI.

29-09-2004	#20
DiiZzY MyCE Resident Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Nordic Region, Sweden Posts: 3,676	Re: Monitor Advice - Looking to purchase Beware of the ms rating, it's not something that you should rely on when purschasing LCDs. //Danne

30-09-2004	#23
DiiZzY MyCE Resident Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Nordic Region, Sweden Posts: 3,676	Re: Monitor Advice - Looking to purchase @ xtacydima If you read reviews you'll soon find out that it doesn't mean a jack, some with lower ratings are just as bad as those with higher etc. I'd put up a warning finger about Toms Hardware Guide, they aren't all that reliable. //Danne

30-09-2004	#25
Sodom CD Freaks Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Europe Posts: 133	Re: Monitor Advice - Looking to purchase I like LCD's because they're compact, but the issue I have with them, is the price you have to pay for it. I like 17 inch Flatrons from LG. For the price of 165 bucks you get a really good monitor. __________________ Computer #1 info: - AMD64 X2 5600+ - 3x OCZ Platinum XTC 1GB 800 MHz - 2x WD2500AAKS - 1x WD6400AAKS - GF6600 - Foxconn N570SM2AA-8EKRS2H - 1x Plextor 716A - 1x Plextor Premium - Enermax Chakra housing Computer #2 info: ASUS A6Km Ultra Computer #3 info: - P4 Prescott 3.0 - Abit IC7-G - 1x WD1600JD - 2x 512MB Viking RAM - Radeon 9550

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