Old 14-10-2004   #1
CD Freaks Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bangkok
Posts: 265
Can I install CPU with FSB higher than motherboard's FSB?

Hi,

My question: Can I install CPU with FSB higher than motherboard's FSB?

I have a 2-year old motherboard ASUS P4SE/U2 with Celeron 1.7GHz on it and I wanna upgrade to Pentium 4. The manual says the board can support up to 3.06+ GHz Pentium 4/Celeron Northwood/Willamette with FSB 400MHz. But the hightest speed CPUs listed on http://www.asus.com.tw/support/cpusu...pusupport.aspx for this motherboard are:

P4-2.20 GHz (400 FSB, L2 cache:512KB)
P4-2.40 GHz (400 FSB, L2 cache:512KB)
P4-2.50 GHz (400 FSB, L2 cache:512KB)
P4-2.60 GHz (400 FSB, L2 cache:512KB)

I don't know why they don't list CPUs between 2.6GHz to 3.06GHz.

Problem is I can't find any of those to buy. Guess they're too old. Here is what I can find:

1. 2.4GHz (533MHz) Prescott 1MB cache
2. 2.8GHz (533MHz) Prescott 1MB cache
3. 2.8GHz (800MHz) Prescott 1MB cache
4. 2.8GHz (533MHz) Northwood 512K cache
5. 2.8GHz (800MHz) Northwood 512K cache

Would any of these work with my motherboard? I'm interested in #3. I wouldn't mind having 800MHz FSB CPU running at 400MHz as long as it works and I can benefit from the 1MB cache.

I don't want to upgrade the motherboard yet unless absolutely necessary. We don't have to upgrade motherboard everytime we upgrade CPU, do we?

Thanks in advance for any advice.
lordyu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-10-2004   #2
Retired Administrator
 
Dee-ehn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: On my chair
Posts: 15,198
Re: Can I install CPU with FSB higher than motherboard's FSB?

Well.. yes, you can plug in CPUs that are designed to run at higher busspeeds without a problem. However, if you mainboard does not support FSBs over 100Mhz (= 400Mhz because of the quad pumped bus), your CPU will be running at a lower speed, as the multiplier can't be set!

If you can't set your FSB to 133 or 200Mhz, you may want to look into overclocking your FSB. If you can set the PCI/AGP divider to 1/4 (for 533) or 1/6 (for 800), you possibly could overclock the CPU FSB and still benefit from the higher FSB without running into problems. There's no garantuee here, but I've seen it working on quite some older systems. It just depens on what your board can do.

BTW... if you can't find a fitting 3.0 Ghz CPU, why not get an 2.6Ghz CPU? It's not that fast as the 3Ghz model, but it still beats the crap out of the Cellie
Dee-ehn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-10-2004   #3
MyCE Resident
 
Nemesys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 1,361
Re: Can I install CPU with FSB higher than motherboard's FSB?

According to the information on the site your motherboard supports


Celeron 2.8 GHz (400 FSB, L2 cache:128KB) ALL w/1010.001 BIOS upgrade or
P4-2.60 GHz (400 FSB, L2 cache:512KB) ALL .

According to the specs here.....
http://usa.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?m=P4SE/U2&langs=09
the board supports Socket 478 for Intel Pentium 4 up to 3.06GHz.

Here is what I can find.......

Intel Celeron (Pentium 4 Based) 2.8 GHz 400MHz FSB, 128K Cache - Retail

Intel Pentium 4/ 2.8 GHz 400MHz FSB, 512K Cache Processor - OEM
(Heatsink and Fan required).
__________________
Case: Cooler Master HAF 932 Full Tower Motherboard: ASUS P8P67 Deluxe CPU: Intel Core i7-2600K 3.4GHz @ 4.8GHz (Cooler Master V8 CPU Cooling) RAM: 8GB Corsair Dominator DDR3 PC12800 Video Card: EVGA GTX460 1GB Sound Card: Creative X-Fi Xtreme Audio Monitor: HP 2711x (27” LED) Audio System: MASSIVE PSU: Silverstone Strider Plus 1000W
DVD-RAM: Lite-On iHAS524
DVD-RAM: Lite-On LH-20A1L BL06
Hard Drive (Internal Storage): Seagate Barracuda 1TB SATA II File Storage
Hard Drive (Removables): ICY DOCK MB877SK SATA Screw-Less Mobile Rack
Drive #1. 128GB OCZ Vertex 4 SSD Win 8 Professional
Drive #2. 90GB OCZ Vertex 2 SSD WIN 7 Ultimate
Drive #3. Seagate Barracuda 250GB SATA II WIN XP x64 Professional
Drive #4. Seagate Barracuda 320GB SATA II Testing
Nemesys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-10-2004   #4
CD Freaks Senior Member
 
LoneWolf15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Meecheegan
Posts: 298
Re: Can I install CPU with FSB higher than motherboard's FSB?

Based on what the specs read above, I'd look for a 400MHz FSB P4, and skip the higher-end 533 chips unless you want a new mainboard. I think you'll find the cache differences alone between the Celeron and the P4 make a HUGE jump in performance. The early P4 Celerons were poor performers; the long pipelines of the P4 core require decent size caches to keep the pipes full with instructions. The P4 class Celerons suffered greatly due to their smaller caches, which resulted in more idle time waiting for instructions, and more cache misses. I'd bet that a P4 at 2.6 or 2.8GHz would make you feel like you have a new machine.

Running a CPU rated higher than 400MHz FSB will not only run the CPU slower than rated spec, but may also cause additional issues (your mainboard may not support Hyperthreaded CPU's). As for why your mainboard doesn't list newer CPU'sas compatible, you answered your own question: It doesn't support a 533MHz front side bus.
__________________
Athlon 64 X2 4800+ MSI K8N Neo 4 Platinum, 2GB OCZ Gold
Antec P160 (modded), Antec NeoHE 550w PSU
2x 400GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 SATA2, 2x Pioneer DVR-212D
XFX GeForce 8800GTS 640MB, ATI TV Wonder, X-Fi XtremeGamer, Dell 2407WFP LCD
LoneWolf15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-10-2004   #5
CD Freaks Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bangkok
Posts: 265
Re: Can I install CPU with FSB higher than motherboard's FSB?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee-ehn
Well.. yes, you can plug in CPUs that are designed to run at higher busspeeds without a problem. However, if you mainboard does not support FSBs over 100Mhz (= 400Mhz because of the quad pumped bus), your CPU will be running at a lower speed, as the multiplier can't be set!
Thanks, that's good news if I can really do that. Except that LoneWolf15 says something different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee-ehn
BTW... if you can't find a fitting 3.0 Ghz CPU, why not get an 2.6Ghz CPU? It's not that fast as the 3Ghz model, but it still beats the crap out of the Cellie
As I mentioned in the first post, I'm interested in #3. 2.8GHz (800MHz) Prescott 1MB cache. #2-#5 all have similar prices while #1 is £30 cheaper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemesys
According to the information on the site your motherboard supports
Celeron 2.8 GHz (400 FSB, L2 cache:128KB) ALL w/1010.001 BIOS upgrade or
P4-2.60 GHz (400 FSB, L2 cache:512KB) ALL .

According to the specs here.....
http://usa.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?m=P4SE/U2&langs=09
the board supports Socket 478 for Intel Pentium 4 up to 3.06GHz.
Thanks, that's what I already checked and posted in the original post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemesys
I'm in the UK and it's easier (and may also be cheaper) to find the CPUs #1-#5 listed in the original post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolf15
Based on what the specs read above, I'd look for a 400MHz FSB P4, and skip the higher-end 533 chips unless you want a new mainboard.
I do not want a new motherboard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolf15
I think you'll find the cache differences alone between the Celeron and the P4 make a HUGE jump in performance. The early P4 Celerons were poor performers; the long pipelines of the P4 core require decent size caches to keep the pipes full with instructions. The P4 class Celerons suffered greatly due to their smaller caches, which resulted in more idle time waiting for instructions, and more cache misses. I'd bet that a P4 at 2.6 or 2.8GHz would make you feel like you have a new machine.
Exactly! It takes 10 hours to convert a DVD to XviD with this Celeron 1.7GHz and people says it should only takes 2 hours with Pentium 4!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolf15
Running a CPU rated higher than 400MHz FSB will not only run the CPU slower than rated spec, but may also cause additional issues (your mainboard may not support Hyperthreaded CPU's).
Now, what you say here is different from what Dee-ehn says.
1. You say that it could cause additional issues. Could you give some examples? Surely not supporting hyperthreading is not an "issue" as long as the CPU can run fine (this leads the the next question).
2. When you say CPU X is not support by motherboard Y, do you mean a) CPU X wouldn't run at all OR b) CPU X would run but at the max speed supported by the motherboard Y? My understanding was that it's (b) and Dee-ehn confirmed that it's (b) but from your reply I gathered you mean (a).

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolf15
As for why your mainboard doesn't list newer CPU'sas compatible, you answered your own question: It doesn't support a 533MHz front side bus.
Similarly, the reason the newer CPUs are not listed could be because they are not "fully" supported i.e., not all features are supported (based on Dee-ehn's reply). Or maybe because they wouldn't run at all (based on your reply).

Dee-ehn, LoneWolf15: could you confirm please?

If #3. 2.8GHz (800MHz) Prescott 1MB cache can run fine (as best as the motherboard can support) without a problem I won't upgrade the motherboard.
lordyu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-10-2004   #6
Retired Administrator
 
Dee-ehn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: On my chair
Posts: 15,198
Re: Can I install CPU with FSB higher than motherboard's FSB?

As far as I know (mostly from my own experiences), these P4 CPUs will work on older boards just fine, as long as the settings are correct (powersettings). They will work on lower speeds and without HT enabled of course.

Recently I put a 2.8 Ghz Northwood with HT on an old i845 based board (with SDR memory) and it ran fine. Overclocked the FSB and it worked like a charm!

If you want to be really sure (as there's no 100% garantuee), you might want to take your computer to a store and have it tried there. Find a good store btw.... or else they'll be selling you a new mainboard as well
Dee-ehn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-10-2004   #7
MyCE Resident
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,850
Re: Can I install CPU with FSB higher than motherboard's FSB?

Prescott uses a different voltage, so I'd be wary of putting ANY Prescott core cip on a board that doesnt explicitly support it.

Best chance, out of those you list, would be #4 - The 2.8 GHz northwood 533 - which if you cannot overclock the FSB at all, would run at 2.1 GHz - the 800 FSB models would run at half speed, if they run at all

http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/produ...duct_uid=56957
I guess you're not looking for more Celeron power!

Ebay is a risky place to get CPU's, but it may be your last resort
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...713555365&rd=1 Only a 1.8, but it has the 512k cache

Quite a few 1.8's around on ebay, if you think the bigger cahce will make more difference than a faster Celery
Matth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2004   #8
MyCE Resident
 
DiiZzY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Nordic Region, Sweden
Posts: 3,676
Re: Can I install CPU with FSB higher than motherboard's FSB?

I'd go with LoveWolf and Matth, you can't run all CPUs on your mainboard for reasons mentioned earlier in the thread.
//Danne
DiiZzY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-10-2004   #9
CD Freaks Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bangkok
Posts: 265
Re: Can I install CPU with FSB higher than motherboard's FSB?

Thanks all. I've checked the BIOS settings.

CPU Speed: [Manual|1700MHz|2266MHz]
CPU Frequency Multiple: 17x <- (always fixed)
CPU External Frequency: [100/33|101/34|102/34|...|133/33|134/34|...|166/33]
Memory Frequency: [Auto|200MHz|266MHz|333MHz|400MHz]
CPU Vcore Set: Auto
CPU Vcore: [1.850V|1.825V|1.800V|1.775V|1.750V]

Underscored means current settings. Current CPU is 1.7GHz Celeron. I don't know why there are only 1.7GHz and 2.266GHz there but if I change it to 2.266GHz the CPU External Frequency will change to 133/33 while other settings remain the unchanged.

Would the mainboard accept "#4. 2.8GHz (533MHz) Northwood 512K" or any of the Prescott models (tempted by 1MB cache)? I don't quite understand those many 1xx/3x External Frequency options and why there is only fixed 17x for Frequency Multiple though.

Cheers.
lordyu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-10-2004   #10
MyCE Resident
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,850
Re: Can I install CPU with FSB higher than motherboard's FSB?

Intel Multipliers have been hard-locked since the last days of the Pentium 1 and MMX.
AMD spat on their enthusiast base, when they too implemented ever more vicious locking.

the 1.7GHz Celeron runs at a Multiplier of 17x 100 clock - with dual DDR for a quad-pumped 400 FSB

The fact it offers 2266MHz (17x 133.3)
Suggests that you could use, at least unofficially, a 533 FSB processor.
Not sure if a Celeron can be expected to overclock to that level, and not sure if the chipset will - I've seen boards that offer values in bios that are well beyond the chipset's stability limits.

I'd be very reluctant to put a Prescott on a motherboard that doesn't explicitly support it though, but the 2.8GHz 533 FSB Northwood looks possible, if the motherboard will hold the chipset overclock (unless they updated the chipset - that happens).
Matth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-2004   #11
CD Freaks Senior Member
 
LoneWolf15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Meecheegan
Posts: 298
Re: Can I install CPU with FSB higher than motherboard's FSB?

Even if his Celeron does make it up to an overclocked speed, the lack of cache hurts even more as clock speed rises, making the Celeron a poor choice for overclocking.

I'd say this is his best bet:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...116-188&depa=1
__________________
Athlon 64 X2 4800+ MSI K8N Neo 4 Platinum, 2GB OCZ Gold
Antec P160 (modded), Antec NeoHE 550w PSU
2x 400GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 SATA2, 2x Pioneer DVR-212D
XFX GeForce 8800GTS 640MB, ATI TV Wonder, X-Fi XtremeGamer, Dell 2407WFP LCD
LoneWolf15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2012   #12
New Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1
Higher FSB

Hallo...
I have read your posting 'bout FSB.
http://club.myce.com/f7/can-i-instal...ds-fsb-110965/
I have the some problem but my board is 800 with CeleronD 331. 800 too.
Now, I want to put the C2D 8400 1333.

How's your idea 'bout that.
Can that couple running? Although with lower FSB...

Thankyou...
My email is

and My FB is: iwen daffa nina with that email.

[edit by Dee]
Removed email address.

Last edited by Dee; 21-12-2012 at 15:01.
suwendra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-12-2012   #13
MyCE Resident
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,754
Why ressurect this more than EIGHT YEAR OLD topic from the dead?

Suwendra, if you have a question abut upgrading an older Mother Board UP to a Core 2 Duo E8400 why not start a discussion as a new topic?

Many newer boards actually made for the 1333MHZ fsb and 1066MHz FSB CPU's
were "Back compatible" to Socket 775 Pentium 4 CPU's with 800MHz FSB
as well as their "Celeron" versions.

Having detailed information about your MoBo would let us know.
__________________
If you become annoyed with an electronic device and soothe the animal side of your nature by smashing it with a hammer some will say that you are ruled by that "animal side", However the Cerebral side that "holds the leash" of your animal side understands the basic reality that once smashed that annoying POS will never irritate you again.... it is only serendipity that you also rid yourself of some repressed rage in the process...
AllanDeGroot is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OC in what order? FSB, RAM, CPU? btspm General Hardware Forum 11 09-06-2007 14:02
FSB change and HD Sodom General Hardware Forum 4 14-10-2005 02:46
Fsb? shuss Newbie Forum 9 24-11-2002 20:13
fsb donfrabrizio2 Dutch: De Woonkamer 3 25-03-2001 12:52
FSB? Zavro77 Dutch: De Woonkamer 1 07-07-2000 21:54


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 14:53.
Top