Again on modem/routers

**geno888** · 17-07-2009

Hi

I remember some time ago there were some discussions about the best configuration for ADSL connections.

The best solution at that time was internet --> modem --> Router/Firewall --> Switch --> Computers

I wonder if it is the same also today. I'm asking because in stores I noticed that modems are not more available in shelves. There are only Routers with integrated modem (most of times with also an integrated 4 port switch).

Is it still the best solution to have the modem separated from the router/firewall?

What is a reliable modem and where to get it?

There is a real advantage for an everyday use to have a gigabit switch or a 10/100 is sufficient?

Is it better to get a gigabit switch anyway even if the connection speed is not so high if every computer connected to the switch is provided of a gigabit card?

Because of the Asus Premium is not more available in stores, what is a good alternative?

Thanks

**mciahel** · 17-07-2009

Hi,

Quote:

Originally Posted by geno888

The best solution at that time was internet --> modem --> Router/Firewall --> Switch --> Computers

The main disadvantage, compared to an all-in-one Modem/Router/Switch device is the higher power consumption.

Quote:

I wonder if it is the same also today.

I don't see any disadvantage of an all-in-one device.

Quote:

I'm asking because in stores I noticed that modems are not more available in shelves. There are only Routers with integrated modem (most of times with also an integrated 4 port switch).

You may have a look in online-shops

Local stores often have limited offers.

Quote:

Is it still the best solution to have the modem separated from the router/firewall?

It depends on your ISP. With normal ADSL, you should be fine with an all-in-one. It's different if you plan to switch to Cable Internet. The modem will be useless, and if you can't disable it, then the whole device can't be used. In such a scenario, it would be better to have router and modem separately.

Quote:

What is a reliable modem and where to get it?

I'd guess, the modems from the ISP should be reliable enough - and there won't be any compatibility issues.

Quote:

There is a real advantage for an everyday use to have a gigabit switch or a 10/100 is sufficient?

If you often transfer large amounts of data within your local network, then GBit LAN and GBit switch would be nice. But then I would just get a GBit switch separately, since routers with built-in GBit switches are more expensive.

Michael

**geno888** · 17-07-2009

Hi, thanks for answers

Actually I often move tons of data among the two (I hope soon three) machines connected in the network. I didn't think to this "detail"

My ISP didn't provide a modem, I bought it in a store some years ago. Currently I have a Linksys WAG200G, and it is performing rather well, but this specific model is not more available in stores (both local and online)

Cable internet connections here have still too high prices (I really can't afford such connections

)

**mciahel** · 17-07-2009

Hi,

Quote:

Originally Posted by geno888

Hi, thanks for answers

You're Welcome

Quote:

My ISP didn't provide a modem, I bought it in a store some years ago.

That's different here. For a small amount of money (or even free) if you sign a contract with them

So I have a plain simple DSL modem lying around here.
Currently I have a Linksys WAG200G, and it is performing rather well, but this specific model is not more available in stores (both local and online)

[/quote]Plain ADSL (and Cable) modems aren't widespread. The few I found after a quick check were rather expensive compared to an all-in-one modem with router.

Quote:

Cable internet connections here have still too high prices (I really can't afford such connections

)

My brother pays less for his 10MBit Cable (including Phone flat) than me for a 6 MBit DSL (Phone flat also included).

Michael

*DiiZzY* · 21-07-2009

It's still way better to have a separate modem.
Linksys AM200 is a pretty solid modem (so is Zyxel's models) and for router I'd give Planex MZK-W04NU a go with a third party firmware.
..since I don't now italian I have to rely on Google :-)

http://www.ciao.it/Linksys_ADSL_Modem_AM200__673424
Linksys WRT160NL is pretty similar to the Planex although slightly more expensive and it doesn't have third party support yet but its being worked on...

//Danne

**geno888** · 21-07-2009

Thanks DiiZzY

**mciahel** · 21-07-2009

Hi,

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiiZzY

It's still way better to have a separate modem.

Out of curiosity: Why? Consider the scenario, a change of the internet connection (cable vs. DSL) is not planned.

Quote:

and for router I'd give Planex MZK-W04NU a go with a third party firmware.

So warranty doesn't matter here

Michael

*DiiZzY* · 21-07-2009

Why? Mainly for stability...
Combo units usually share a tiny flash (2-4Mb) and then try to squeeze everything into 16Mb RAM which is way too little usually. The CPU will also have to handle both routing and the DSL-connection since pure hw-solution are too expensive and this is a good way of cutting costs. So in the end you have an underpowered CPU (makes QoS work poorly if it included at all) and way too little ram if you run applications that uses many connections such as eMule/DC/Bittorent/P2P which in the end causes your combo unit/router to reboot, drop connections and hang.

A DSL modem is ~40 EUR and usually ISPs seems to not include modems (for free) or supply crap ones that has NAT enabled by default. At least I plan to use my connection the best way possible.
//Danne

**geno888** · 21-07-2009

So, for the same reason, is it better also to not use the switch embedded in most routers and prefer instead a separate switch?

**mciahel** · 21-07-2009

Never had a problem with my all-in-one.
But if you are a heavy user with enterprise-class traffic, then you may add enterprise-class routers and switches to your DSL modem

Michael

*DiiZzY* · 21-07-2009

The switch hardware works fine by its own, although it might be worth investing in one if you want gbit at home. I can highly recommend Allied Telesyn's entry gbit switches.
//Danne

**geno888** · 22-07-2009

I just checked their homepage...

It seems professional hardware, and I'm rather scared to find prices

*DiiZzY* · 22-07-2009

http://www.ciao.it/Allied_Telesyn_AT_GS900_8_8__599063
http://www.alliedtelesis.com/product...?pid=57&lid=58

http://www.ciao.it/Allied_Telesis_AT...witch__1106951
http://www.alliedtelesis.com/product...pid=220&lid=68

The GS950 is a "smart" switch and has a webui which allows you to control your network much better than with a SOHO switch such as a GS900 but it's still a good choice irregardless of which one you pick.

I should perhaps mention that I run a similar configuration at home :-)
I have a Scientific Atlanta Cable Modem connect to my router which is also my fileserver running FreeBSD 8.0 among with other network/internet services. It's hooked up to an Allied Telesis GS900/8 switch which has a Planex MZK-W04NU running in Access Point-mode connected to it among with a Xerox (rebadged Samsung) network printer among with some other clients etc. =)

//Danne

**geno888** · 22-07-2009

Thanks a lot DiiZzY

*DiiZzY* · 23-07-2009

np, time for some shopping? :-)
//Danne

**geno888** · 23-07-2009

I only need to have a talk with the wallet

, but I think that in september I'll start to buy the new components

*DiiZzY* · 23-07-2009

The wallet says "I feel fat and need to go on a diet!"
//Danne

**geno888** · 24-07-2009

LOL

the wallet is already screaming

**geno888** · 22-09-2009

Browsing a webstore, I found this switch. Is it good or is better the Allied Telesis one?

I'm asking because there is a rather big price difference

*DiiZzY* · 22-09-2009

The difference is that it lacks gigabit... :-)
http://www.chl.it/w3obj/h/default/$productdetails?a_codart=5839700&session=0&i_cdsroot=18318229 probably works just as good as the Planex one if you only need 100mbit.
//Danne

**geno888** · 22-09-2009

oops... I'm a bit confused

According to specifications reported on CHL webpage, the Planex P-Fxg-08imv is a gigabit switch, not a 10/100.

After checking at Planex website, I found that there is no Fxg-08imv model, but there is a Fxg-08imb model. I assume that are the same piece of hardware except for the chassis color.

Is it not a good choice for a relatively cheap gigabit switch? At the moment I can't afford the €170 for the Allied Telesis

I need something to connect 4 machines (5 when I'll be able to build the new PC, asap).

I don't know if it is important, but three PC runs with windows XP and one with Linux Fedora. Three machines have a gigabit net card (an Intel Pro 1000/PT PCIe) and one has only a 10/100 net card (onboard in the mobo). The fifth PC (when it'll be completed) will use a Linux distro too.

I rather often move large files (mostly ISO) from a machine to another so I think that a gigabit connection is better than a 10/100

**Dee** · 22-09-2009

I use a Netgear GS605 (5 port).
It's very cheap and works very well.
http://www.netgear.com/Products/Swit...hes/GS605.aspx

Here is a sample of the throughput from that switch.
http://club.cdfreaks.com/f7/new-moth...3/#post2423087

*DiiZzY* · 22-09-2009

Sorry, my bad :-)
The Planex is gigabit (apparently) although I've heard some rumors going from good to bad but that also includes Netgear switches so I don't really know. The Allied is a solid switch with builtin PSU which to my personal experience which may not apply to all environments I find switches with builtin PSU more reliable than those with a power adapter.

A whole network package from Abaco System is at 224 EUR including tax
Allied Telesis GS900/8
Linksys WRT160NL
D-Link DSL-320B (should be decent)

If you find it too expensive use the builtin switch in the WRT160NL for now.
//Danne

**geno888** · 23-09-2009

I have bad experiences with Netgear stuff. Some time ago I bought a modem and a router, and both were DOA

I'm really reluctant to spend money again on Netgear

Thanks for suggestions however

Syrich · 10-12-2009

I got a question about using multiple modems. I live in a house with one internet signal coming in. The coaxial cable line connects to a cable modem and our wireless router connects to the modem (just a basic home setup). I have a coaxial line in my room. Is it possible to connect a cable modem to this cable line in my room? If so, could I then connect a switch to the modem?

Thanks.

17-07-2009	#1
geno888 Senior Moderator, Editor and Guru Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 29,213	Again on modem/routers Hi I remember some time ago there were some discussions about the best configuration for ADSL connections. The best solution at that time was internet --> modem --> Router/Firewall --> Switch --> Computers I wonder if it is the same also today. I'm asking because in stores I noticed that modems are not more available in shelves. There are only Routers with integrated modem (most of times with also an integrated 4 port switch). Is it still the best solution to have the modem separated from the router/firewall? What is a reliable modem and where to get it? There is a real advantage for an everyday use to have a gigabit switch or a 10/100 is sufficient? Is it better to get a gigabit switch anyway even if the connection speed is not so high if every computer connected to the switch is provided of a gigabit card? Because of the Asus Premium is not more available in stores, what is a good alternative? Thanks __________________ Click here or here to download latest version of CD-DVD Speed Click here to read more about DMA User guide for CD-DVD Speed: English version - Versione Italiana User guide for ImgBurn in BUILD mode English version - Italian version Please do not ask questions via PM. Post in the forum instead. Thanks Per favore, non chiedete consigli o suggerimenti tramite PM. Usate invece il forum (che serve proprio per questo). KTPHTT

17-07-2009	#3
geno888 Senior Moderator, Editor and Guru Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 29,213	Re: Again on modem/routers Hi, thanks for answers Actually I often move tons of data among the two (I hope soon three) machines connected in the network. I didn't think to this "detail" My ISP didn't provide a modem, I bought it in a store some years ago. Currently I have a Linksys WAG200G, and it is performing rather well, but this specific model is not more available in stores (both local and online) Cable internet connections here have still too high prices (I really can't afford such connections ) __________________ Click here or here to download latest version of CD-DVD Speed Click here to read more about DMA User guide for CD-DVD Speed: English version - Versione Italiana User guide for ImgBurn in BUILD mode English version - Italian version Please do not ask questions via PM. Post in the forum instead. Thanks Per favore, non chiedete consigli o suggerimenti tramite PM. Usate invece il forum (che serve proprio per questo). KTPHTT

21-07-2009	#5
DiiZzY MyCE Resident Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Nordic Region, Sweden Posts: 3,676	Re: Again on modem/routers It's still way better to have a separate modem. Linksys AM200 is a pretty solid modem (so is Zyxel's models) and for router I'd give Planex MZK-W04NU a go with a third party firmware. ..since I don't now italian I have to rely on Google :-) http://www.ciao.it/Linksys_ADSL_Modem_AM200__673424 Linksys WRT160NL is pretty similar to the Planex although slightly more expensive and it doesn't have third party support yet but its being worked on... //Danne

21-07-2009	#6
geno888 Senior Moderator, Editor and Guru Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 29,213	Re: Again on modem/routers Thanks DiiZzY __________________ Click here or here to download latest version of CD-DVD Speed Click here to read more about DMA User guide for CD-DVD Speed: English version - Versione Italiana User guide for ImgBurn in BUILD mode English version - Italian version Please do not ask questions via PM. Post in the forum instead. Thanks Per favore, non chiedete consigli o suggerimenti tramite PM. Usate invece il forum (che serve proprio per questo). KTPHTT

21-07-2009	#8
DiiZzY MyCE Resident Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Nordic Region, Sweden Posts: 3,676	Re: Again on modem/routers Why? Mainly for stability... Combo units usually share a tiny flash (2-4Mb) and then try to squeeze everything into 16Mb RAM which is way too little usually. The CPU will also have to handle both routing and the DSL-connection since pure hw-solution are too expensive and this is a good way of cutting costs. So in the end you have an underpowered CPU (makes QoS work poorly if it included at all) and way too little ram if you run applications that uses many connections such as eMule/DC/Bittorent/P2P which in the end causes your combo unit/router to reboot, drop connections and hang. A DSL modem is ~40 EUR and usually ISPs seems to not include modems (for free) or supply crap ones that has NAT enabled by default. At least I plan to use my connection the best way possible. //Danne

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21-07-2009	#9
geno888 Senior Moderator, Editor and Guru Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 29,213	Re: Again on modem/routers So, for the same reason, is it better also to not use the switch embedded in most routers and prefer instead a separate switch? __________________ Click here or here to download latest version of CD-DVD Speed Click here to read more about DMA User guide for CD-DVD Speed: English version - Versione Italiana User guide for ImgBurn in BUILD mode English version - Italian version Please do not ask questions via PM. Post in the forum instead. Thanks Per favore, non chiedete consigli o suggerimenti tramite PM. Usate invece il forum (che serve proprio per questo). KTPHTT

21-07-2009	#10
mciahel Senior Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 17,048	Re: Again on modem/routers Never had a problem with my all-in-one. But if you are a heavy user with enterprise-class traffic, then you may add enterprise-class routers and switches to your DSL modem Michael __________________ Mini-FAQ for Samsung DVD writers * HOWTO Flash Firmware of a Samsung (TSST) DVD writer How to attach disc quality scans

21-07-2009	#11
DiiZzY MyCE Resident Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Nordic Region, Sweden Posts: 3,676	Re: Again on modem/routers The switch hardware works fine by its own, although it might be worth investing in one if you want gbit at home. I can highly recommend Allied Telesyn's entry gbit switches. //Danne

22-07-2009	#12
geno888 Senior Moderator, Editor and Guru Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 29,213	Re: Again on modem/routers I just checked their homepage... It seems professional hardware, and I'm rather scared to find prices __________________ Click here or here to download latest version of CD-DVD Speed Click here to read more about DMA User guide for CD-DVD Speed: English version - Versione Italiana User guide for ImgBurn in BUILD mode English version - Italian version Please do not ask questions via PM. Post in the forum instead. Thanks Per favore, non chiedete consigli o suggerimenti tramite PM. Usate invece il forum (che serve proprio per questo). KTPHTT

22-07-2009	#13
DiiZzY MyCE Resident Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Nordic Region, Sweden Posts: 3,676	Re: Again on modem/routers http://www.ciao.it/Allied_Telesyn_AT_GS900_8_8__599063 http://www.alliedtelesis.com/product...?pid=57&lid=58 http://www.ciao.it/Allied_Telesis_AT...witch__1106951 http://www.alliedtelesis.com/product...pid=220&lid=68 The GS950 is a "smart" switch and has a webui which allows you to control your network much better than with a SOHO switch such as a GS900 but it's still a good choice irregardless of which one you pick. I should perhaps mention that I run a similar configuration at home :-) I have a Scientific Atlanta Cable Modem connect to my router which is also my fileserver running FreeBSD 8.0 among with other network/internet services. It's hooked up to an Allied Telesis GS900/8 switch which has a Planex MZK-W04NU running in Access Point-mode connected to it among with a Xerox (rebadged Samsung) network printer among with some other clients etc. =) //Danne Last edited by DiiZzY; 22-07-2009 at 22:37.

22-07-2009	#14
geno888 Senior Moderator, Editor and Guru Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 29,213	Re: Again on modem/routers Thanks a lot DiiZzY __________________ Click here or here to download latest version of CD-DVD Speed Click here to read more about DMA User guide for CD-DVD Speed: English version - Versione Italiana User guide for ImgBurn in BUILD mode English version - Italian version Please do not ask questions via PM. Post in the forum instead. Thanks Per favore, non chiedete consigli o suggerimenti tramite PM. Usate invece il forum (che serve proprio per questo). KTPHTT

23-07-2009	#15
DiiZzY MyCE Resident Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Nordic Region, Sweden Posts: 3,676	Re: Again on modem/routers np, time for some shopping? :-) //Danne

23-07-2009	#16
geno888 Senior Moderator, Editor and Guru Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 29,213	Re: Again on modem/routers I only need to have a talk with the wallet , but I think that in september I'll start to buy the new components __________________ Click here or here to download latest version of CD-DVD Speed Click here to read more about DMA User guide for CD-DVD Speed: English version - Versione Italiana User guide for ImgBurn in BUILD mode English version - Italian version Please do not ask questions via PM. Post in the forum instead. Thanks Per favore, non chiedete consigli o suggerimenti tramite PM. Usate invece il forum (che serve proprio per questo). KTPHTT

23-07-2009	#17
DiiZzY MyCE Resident Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Nordic Region, Sweden Posts: 3,676	Re: Again on modem/routers The wallet says "I feel fat and need to go on a diet!" //Danne

24-07-2009	#18
geno888 Senior Moderator, Editor and Guru Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 29,213	Re: Again on modem/routers LOL the wallet is already screaming __________________ Click here or here to download latest version of CD-DVD Speed Click here to read more about DMA User guide for CD-DVD Speed: English version - Versione Italiana User guide for ImgBurn in BUILD mode English version - Italian version Please do not ask questions via PM. Post in the forum instead. Thanks Per favore, non chiedete consigli o suggerimenti tramite PM. Usate invece il forum (che serve proprio per questo). KTPHTT

22-09-2009	#19
geno888 Senior Moderator, Editor and Guru Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 29,213	Re: Again on modem/routers Browsing a webstore, I found this switch. Is it good or is better the Allied Telesis one? I'm asking because there is a rather big price difference __________________ Click here or here to download latest version of CD-DVD Speed Click here to read more about DMA User guide for CD-DVD Speed: English version - Versione Italiana User guide for ImgBurn in BUILD mode English version - Italian version Please do not ask questions via PM. Post in the forum instead. Thanks Per favore, non chiedete consigli o suggerimenti tramite PM. Usate invece il forum (che serve proprio per questo). KTPHTT

22-09-2009	#20
DiiZzY MyCE Resident Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Nordic Region, Sweden Posts: 3,676	Re: Again on modem/routers The difference is that it lacks gigabit... :-) http://www.chl.it/w3obj/h/default/$productdetails?a_codart=5839700&session=0&i_cdsroot=18318229 probably works just as good as the Planex one if you only need 100mbit. //Danne

22-09-2009	#21
geno888 Senior Moderator, Editor and Guru Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 29,213	Re: Again on modem/routers oops... I'm a bit confused According to specifications reported on CHL webpage, the Planex P-Fxg-08imv is a gigabit switch, not a 10/100. After checking at Planex website, I found that there is no Fxg-08imv model, but there is a Fxg-08imb model. I assume that are the same piece of hardware except for the chassis color. Is it not a good choice for a relatively cheap gigabit switch? At the moment I can't afford the €170 for the Allied Telesis I need something to connect 4 machines (5 when I'll be able to build the new PC, asap). I don't know if it is important, but three PC runs with windows XP and one with Linux Fedora. Three machines have a gigabit net card (an Intel Pro 1000/PT PCIe) and one has only a 10/100 net card (onboard in the mobo). The fifth PC (when it'll be completed) will use a Linux distro too. I rather often move large files (mostly ISO) from a machine to another so I think that a gigabit connection is better than a 10/100 __________________ Click here or here to download latest version of CD-DVD Speed Click here to read more about DMA User guide for CD-DVD Speed: English version - Versione Italiana User guide for ImgBurn in BUILD mode English version - Italian version Please do not ask questions via PM. Post in the forum instead. Thanks Per favore, non chiedete consigli o suggerimenti tramite PM. Usate invece il forum (che serve proprio per questo). KTPHTT

22-09-2009	#22
Dee Senior Administrator and Reviewer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Scotland, UK Posts: 12,806	Re: Again on modem/routers I use a Netgear GS605 (5 port). It's very cheap and works very well. http://www.netgear.com/Products/Swit...hes/GS605.aspx Here is a sample of the throughput from that switch. http://club.cdfreaks.com/f7/new-moth...3/#post2423087 __________________ We came to wreck everything and ruin your lives, God sent us MyCE SSD Reviews To become a member of MyCE.com just click here to join The Forum Rules \| The SSD FAQ \| The NEC/Optiarc F.A.Q. \| Liggy & Dee's NEC/Optiarc Firmware Page

22-09-2009	#23
DiiZzY MyCE Resident Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Nordic Region, Sweden Posts: 3,676	Re: Again on modem/routers Sorry, my bad :-) The Planex is gigabit (apparently) although I've heard some rumors going from good to bad but that also includes Netgear switches so I don't really know. The Allied is a solid switch with builtin PSU which to my personal experience which may not apply to all environments I find switches with builtin PSU more reliable than those with a power adapter. A whole network package from Abaco System is at 224 EUR including tax Allied Telesis GS900/8 Linksys WRT160NL D-Link DSL-320B (should be decent) If you find it too expensive use the builtin switch in the WRT160NL for now. //Danne

23-09-2009	#24
geno888 Senior Moderator, Editor and Guru Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 29,213	Re: Again on modem/routers I have bad experiences with Netgear stuff. Some time ago I bought a modem and a router, and both were DOA I'm really reluctant to spend money again on Netgear Thanks for suggestions however __________________ Click here or here to download latest version of CD-DVD Speed Click here to read more about DMA User guide for CD-DVD Speed: English version - Versione Italiana User guide for ImgBurn in BUILD mode English version - Italian version Please do not ask questions via PM. Post in the forum instead. Thanks Per favore, non chiedete consigli o suggerimenti tramite PM. Usate invece il forum (che serve proprio per questo). KTPHTT

10-12-2009	#25
Syrich MyCE Rookie Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 28	I got a question about using multiple modems. I live in a house with one internet signal coming in. The coaxial cable line connects to a cable modem and our wireless router connects to the modem (just a basic home setup). I have a coaxial line in my room. Is it possible to connect a cable modem to this cable line in my room? If so, could I then connect a switch to the modem? Thanks. __________________ I will never purchase another PC after today.

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