Old 25-09-2012   #26
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The Cinavia "signal" is not audio as we know it. It uses a differential in the S/N ratio to create a small data signal. I forgot the amount but it's measured in bits. It's only applied in the audio during passages with enough sound to mask it. If anyone WAS actually able to hear it - it might sound like a brief pulsing hiss, but it doesn't actually effect the audio quality per se. Questions of audibility or "degradation" aside, it cannot be removed from a bitstream, the audio would have to be decoded then the signal somehow masked. Odds are high that removing it or masking it would be far more audible than the signal is.

It's correct that the real solution will be in the playback device, either a hardware or firmware hack, or perhaps if the player simply ignores it when it occurs outside of a BD format. IOW, copy the movie to some other format and the player ignores Cinavia.
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Old 25-09-2012   #27
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The Cinavia "signal" is not audio as we know it. It uses a differential in the S/N ratio to create a small data signal. I forgot the amount but it's measured in bits. It's only applied in the audio during passages with enough sound to mask it. If anyone WAS actually able to hear it - it might sound like a brief pulsing hiss, but it doesn't actually effect the audio quality per se. Questions of audibility or "degradation" aside, it cannot be removed from a bitstream, the audio would have to be decoded then the signal somehow masked. Odds are high that removing it or masking it would be far more audible than the signal is.

It's correct that the real solution will be in the playback device, either a hardware or firmware hack, or perhaps if the player simply ignores it when it occurs outside of a BD format. IOW, copy the movie to some other format and the player ignores Cinavia.
Hi CDan, do you think it will also remove the watermark? I have my reservations.
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Old 25-09-2012   #28
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According to the authors, the protection was broken accidentally while developing a different software. While not actually removing Cinavia protection, the signal was changed in a way so that it has become unreadable thus disabling the protection by using a design flaw in Cinavia.
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Old 25-09-2012   #29
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It's amazing how many discoveries are "by Accident".

Quick! Patent it!
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Old 25-09-2012   #30
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Hi CDan, do you think it will also remove the watermark? I have my reservations.
The watermark is part of the audio after it's decoded. Removing it is impossible. Altering it in some way to make it stop functioning is possible but unlikely - certainly doing so has greater chance of degrading the audio. It would certainly involve decoding the bitstream first, meaning re-encoding it again. So, demux the audio, decode it, alter it then re-encode it and lastly remux. Sound like something you want to do every time you rip a movie?
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Old 25-09-2012   #31
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It would certainly involve decoding the bitstream first, meaning re-encoding it again. So, demux the audio, decode it, alter it then re-encode it and lastly remux. Sound like something you want to do every time you rip a movie?
The audio decoding/processing/recoding wouldn't be a huge problem, in comparison to the video stream, but:
1) It's not the original sound quality.
2) It's more time consuming.
3) Introduces potential timing/recoding/compatibility issues.

It'd be nice to see *just one* original audio track, ex-cinavia, out in the wild
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Old 25-09-2012   #32
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Even more interesting would be a stolen copy of Cinavia's software used for applying the watermark. I'll guess that the watermark is applied to the audio in LPCM format before encoding to it's final codec. Reverse engineering the watermark would provide a path to removing it or at least disabling it. But still I think the answer is in modding the playback device.
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Old 25-09-2012   #33
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Even more interesting would be a stolen copy of Cinavia's software used for applying the watermark. I'll guess that the watermark is applied to the audio in LPCM format before encoding to it's final codec. Reverse engineering the watermark would provide a path to removing it or at least disabling it. But still I think the answer is in modding the playback device.
Then to say you have defeated Cinavia the watermark must be removed. Thanks for your feedback.
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Old 25-09-2012   #34
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According to the authors, the protection was broken accidentally while developing a different software. While not actually removing Cinavia protection, the signal was changed in a way so that it has become unreadable thus disabling the protection by using a design flaw in Cinavia.

Is this a design flaw that can be patched by the Cinavia developers?Or is it a definitive solution?Otherwise,this will be the start of a cat and mouse game,or it could even end quickly like with DvdFab.....
I'm also curious how the audio from the ripped disc will sound on a good speaker system......but if this works well,I'm definately interested !
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Old 26-09-2012   #35
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This "accidental" workaround sounds much simpler than all the decoding/processing/re-encoding being bandied about here .

CDan mentioned that the signal is hidden in the S/N ratio. Has anyone ever heard of Dolby noise reduction? It strikes me that this accidental discovery may have surfaced as they were simply creating an audio filter aimed at shifting the S/N ratio. Pretty cool, if so . If this is the case, it may well result in an improvement of sound quality, not degradation.
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Old 27-09-2012   #36
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Freq, it reminds me of King George's stamp tax, meant to raise about $20k. The colonists boycotted British ships and quickly cost the King's coffers about $100k. The Parliament, under the wise advise of merchants, repealed the stamp tax. King G did it again, and the same results, only quicker and steaper losses resulted. Again, the Parliament repealed it. On the third try, the King sent troops into the colonies to force new taxes. This added at least $50k a year to the project, and by 1781, the King had spent several hundred thousand, lost thousands of lives, was ridiculed by the French, Dutch and Spanish, and lost his colonies, too. All for $20k - way to stay focused, Kingie.
Unfortunately, that's how DRM works. I once read somewhere on the Sandisk forums, someone refered to it as "Digital Rights Misery". Really, that's what it is. In a way, I believe DRM contributes to piracy, since buying a legal copy seems more and more like a huge pain, compared to getting an illegal copy without protection.

Actually, I'd say making a legal backup of a legal copy is the real pain. But, I suppose making more money is more important to the movie industry (and the music industry, too) than giving their customers what they actually want.
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Old 31-10-2012   #37
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Oh Boy! Oh Boy! Tomorrow is the day! Say Good-Bye to Cinavia! Thank you DVD Ranger!
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Old 31-10-2012   #38
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Oh Boy! Oh Boy! Tomorrow is the day! Say Good-Bye to Cinavia! Thank you DVD Ranger!
So have you ordered it then?


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Old 07-11-2012   #39
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I already cracked Cinavia like 6 months ago, just every website I post the solution on bans me.
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Old 07-11-2012   #40
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I already cracked Cinavia like 6 months ago, just every website I post the solution on bans me.
We believe everyone has the right to make quality backups of media that they own. That has been a part of this site since its beginnings, when it was called CDFreaks.

If you have a legitimate method of bypassing, or removing Cinavia, we would be eager to hear it.
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Old 07-11-2012   #41
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I cracked it also, I just deleted all the sound tracks and used subtitles.
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Old 07-11-2012   #42
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I just deleted all the sound tracks and used subtitles.
Are your subtitles in DTS-HD MA?
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Old 07-11-2012   #43
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I cracked it also, I just deleted all the sound tracks and used subtitles.
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Are your subtitles in DTS-HD MA?
It should work excellently with such classics as this movie, where Marcel Marceau, the mime, has the only speaking part!

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Old 07-11-2012   #44
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If you have a legitimate method of bypassing, or removing Cinavia, we would be eager to hear it.
Indeed!


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Old 07-11-2012   #45
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Its still true that Mediatek based BD players will ignore Cinavia in MKV, M2TS and other media files made from BDs.

Also true that it only triggers protection after 20 min of continuous viewing. After that you can turn off the player, reboot and pick up again where you left off for another 20 min.

I can't speak to other players, but the above is probably true even for the Sony BD players with Mediatek decoders. Whether Sony gets around to forcing Mediatek to plug those holes is another question, but the reboot trick will probably always work.
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Old 07-11-2012   #46
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if you want to bypass cinavia, extract the audio from the file, run the audio file through spdifer.exe and mux it back into the video file removing the original audio, so simple
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Old 08-11-2012   #47
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if you want to bypass cinavia, extract the audio from the file, run the audio file through spdifer.exe and mux it back into the video file removing the original audio, so simple
Thanks for that.

If anyone with suitable discs would like to try this and report back to us we'd be grateful.

spdifer.exe is part of the AC3 Filter tools available from here.


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Old 09-11-2012   #48
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Yeah, my BD player happily plays any cinavia infested audio so I can't try the fix.
Maybe someone here has a 2012 blu-ray player, I think it needs to be made after February.

For that matter, I can play BD files through my inboard TV media player and it doesn't care either.
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Old 09-11-2012   #49
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So what's the point in posting then? If your hardware plays Cinavia files, why are you trawling through threads which are about bypassing Cinavia and making pointless comments, do you have a job?
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Old 09-11-2012   #50
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So what's the point in posting then? If your hardware plays Cinavia files, why are you trawling through threads which are about bypassing Cinavia and making pointless comments, do you have a job?
Its a conversation, and anyone is allowed to participate as long as they are polite and on topic.
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