Old 22-01-2009   #26
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Re: BD Rebuilder vs original Blu-ray movie (hi-res pics)

Could either Kerry or Zevia please upload at least 1 minute of BD-9 quality footage to a file sharing website? I'm just curious to see the quality of BD-9.
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Old 23-01-2009   #27
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Re: Blue Ray to DVD? How?

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Originally Posted by bourned View Post
I say the result is not so good.
From 42GB to 25GB, about 35% compressing, the result is okay but if you look closely not that good.
http://club.cdfreaks.com/f142/bd-reb...s-pics-262571/
But from 27GB to 8GB?? That is 70% compressing. Even with x264 encoder or whatever more superior, I wouldnt bet on it.
If you haven't tried it for yourself, I doubt that you can really offer an educated comment on the actual differences. You underestimate the power of x264.

When we view the BD-9s or the original Blurays, we are not freeze framing each individual frame, and I can tell you that from a distance of about 10 Ft on my 42" HDTV, I cannot discern the differences of those two.

All I can tell you is to try it for yourself, that will be the only way you will see for yourself.

The two screenshots Zevia posted is virtually indistinguishable, even at a virtual freeze... imagine it at full speed?? You won't be able to see shiet in regards to any differences... same is so with the BD-9. I have done nearly 20 BD-9s so far, so I have quite a large database to be offering my opinions on.

Lastly, once you tried it and still feel you must have the higher bitrate back-up... by all means, dish out the $20 -$25 per 50 GB BD-Rs... you are most welcome to....
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Old 23-01-2009   #28
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Re: BD Rebuilder vs original Blu-ray movie (hi-res pics)

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Originally Posted by bourned View Post

Bitrate is bitrate, not arguable. Lower bitrate (as in BD9 or BD5) means less data (aka colors, information and other details). Higher bitrate means more details and colors. You absolutely cant defend that video on BD5/9 "doesnt look any different" than the original blu-ray.
Zooming in 4X on a 21" monitor is equivalent to having a 56" HDTV??...lmfao


As for your bitrate is bitrate comment... can you explain to me why BD-RB has 4 different quality settings then?? I mean if, as you put it, it will still be the same size in the end... as BD-9??
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Old 23-01-2009   #29
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Re: BD Rebuilder vs original Blu-ray movie (hi-res pics)

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Originally Posted by MBK View Post
Zooming in 4X on a 21" monitor is equivalent to having a 56" HDTV??...lmfao
Roughly equivalent and a question mark at the end of sentence. Did I say the 21" is widescreen 16:9?


Quote:
As for your bitrate is bitrate comment... can you explain to me why BD-RB has 4 different quality settings then?? I mean if, as you put it, it will still be the same size in the end... as BD-9??
Ask jdobbs. Never tried BD9. The last time I tried to BD25 it has 2 quality settings only. Good that now it is updated so why don't you compare the results and show them here.
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Old 23-01-2009   #30
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Re: Blue Ray to DVD? How?

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If you haven't tried it for yourself, I doubt that you can really offer an educated comment on the actual differences. You underestimate the power of x264.
I know its good and I thank jdobbs. But I dont believe it will do magic shrinking BD50 to BD9 or BD5.

Quote:
When we view the BD-9s or the original Blurays, we are not freeze framing each individual frame, and I can tell you that from a distance of about 10 Ft on my 42" HDTV, I cannot discern the differences of those two.
YOUR EYES may not see the difference on YOUR equipments.

Quote:
All I can tell you is to try it for yourself, that will be the only way you will see for yourself.
Never tried BD5/9. Tried BD50 --> BD25 main movie, Live Free or Die Hard. The result is good to very good. LFODH main movie is approx 33GB. Its DTS HD is approx 4GB. The other four DD5.1 and one DD2.0 are approx 2GB. That leaves us approximately 27GB video main movie only. Shrinking to BD25 will downconvert DTS HD MA to DTS core, from approx 4GB to 500MB. That leaves us about 23GB for video so shrinking from 27GB video to 23GB will not be so bad. BDInfo bit rates prove it you can see the BD25 backup bit rate is at a good rate 21mbps though they are the first few GB in the movie.


Quote:
The two screenshots Zevia posted is virtually indistinguishable, even at a virtual freeze... imagine it at full speed?? You won't be able to see shiet in regards to any differences... same is so with the BD-9.
Two shots by zevia are somehow indifferent because they are BD50 -> BD25 as I have experienced myself with LFODH. Did you see the BD50 vs BD9 vs BD5 in post 11? What is your comment?

Quote:
Lastly, once you tried it and still feel you must have the higher bitrate back-up... by all means, dish out the $20 -$25 per 50 GB BD-Rs... you are most welcome to....
$20-$25? Try $9+ for BD-R DL and less than $4 for 25GB.

Quote:
I have done nearly 20 BD-9s so far, so I have quite a large database to be offering my opinions on.
If your happy with BD9 then good for you. But Not everyone have same equipments. Not everyone share your opinion. My point is bit rates don't lie. You want to use your eyes as the tool then gohead. I use bit rates as my tool to know how is the quality compared to original. If in single frames you know the data, color deepness and details are altered, how the heck you will know that you're watching the same details as what original blu-ray offered?? Not to mention you are downgrading hidef sound to Standard def sound. Try one of your BD9 from a more than 2 hours movie and lets see how is the bitrates, my guess it will be similar to max DVD bitrates 9-10mbps.
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Old 24-01-2009   #31
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Re: BD Rebuilder vs original Blu-ray movie (hi-res pics)

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Originally Posted by bourned View Post
Roughly equivalent and a question mark at the end of sentence. Did I say the 21" is widescreen 16:9?


Ask jdobbs. Never tried BD9. The last time I tried to BD25 it has 2 quality settings only. Good that now it is updated so why don't you compare the results and show them here.
Showing them on a forum via screenshots is not the most reliable method is it? You yourself would rather only use only bitrates as the determining factor of what ios quality or not. Why would you ask to filter the images via screenshot software and then claim that is the final determination.

You are stuck on bitrates bro, if it was strictly only bitrates that determines the PQ, then why do you suppose the BD-9 is superior in PQ than a DVD DL, in DVD format??

Also, if bitrates are the absolute parameter, then why the different settings described by Dark Shikari, if the output will be of the same bitrate anyways???
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...2&postcount=23
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Old 24-01-2009   #32
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Re: Blue Ray to DVD? How?

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I know its good and I thank jdobbs. But I dont believe it will do magic shrinking BD50 to BD9 or BD5.

YOUR EYES may not see the difference on YOUR equipments.

Never tried BD5/9. Tried BD50 --> BD25 main movie, Live Free or Die Hard. The result is good to very good. LFODH main movie is approx 33GB. Its DTS HD is approx 4GB. The other four DD5.1 and one DD2.0 are approx 2GB. That leaves us approximately 27GB video main movie only. Shrinking to BD25 will downconvert DTS HD MA to DTS core, from approx 4GB to 500MB. That leaves us about 23GB for video so shrinking from 27GB video to 23GB will not be so bad. BDInfo bit rates prove it you can see the BD25 backup bit rate is at a good rate 21mbps though they are the first few GB in the movie.


Two shots by zevia are somehow indifferent because they are BD50 -> BD25 as I have experienced myself with LFODH. Did you see the BD50 vs BD9 vs BD5 in post 11? What is your comment?

$20-$25? Try $9+ for BD-R DL and less than $4 for 25GB.

If your happy with BD9 then good for you. But Not everyone have same equipments. Not everyone share your opinion. My point is bit rates don't lie. You want to use your eyes as the tool then gohead. I use bit rates as my tool to know how is the quality compared to original. If in single frames you know the data, color deepness and details are altered, how the heck you will know that you're watching the same details as what original blu-ray offered?? Not to mention you are downgrading hidef sound to Standard def sound. Try one of your BD9 from a more than 2 hours movie and lets see how is the bitrates, my guess it will be similar to max DVD bitrates 9-10mbps.
I defer you to this post from the other thread

And I suppose you can just go out to any store and get 'top quality' BD-R 50s or 25s for the price you state??
Show me where those $9 & $4 BD-Rs are...
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Old 24-01-2009   #33
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Re: Blue Ray to DVD? How?

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YOUR EYES may not see the difference on YOUR equipments.

Try one of your BD9 from a more than 2 hours movie and lets see how is the bitrates, my guess it will be similar to max DVD bitrates 9-10mbps.
Since you believe in strictly bitrates (and not how and with what it was encoded with ) and not what our eyes see for themselves.... and since you seem stuck on DVD bitrates....

Let me ask you this final question...

Can you see the differences between two DVD-5 back-ups that are shrunk from an original 3 hour movie DVD to single layer , one using, let's say DVDFab or another if you feel, and the other using DVDRebuilder??
They are the same exact bitrate in the end, and they both started with the same exact bitrate source..... so why the 'visual' difference????
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Old 26-01-2009   #34
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Re: BD Rebuilder vs original Blu-ray movie (hi-res pics)

The discussion is becoming more interesting.
I will try BD9 and let you guys know!
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Old 27-01-2009   #35
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Re: BD Rebuilder vs original Blu-ray movie (hi-res pics)

All right, if you can stand it, here are two more cropped images for your enjoyment. These are from the movie Serenity, encoded in VC-1 originally. These images are reduced in size by cropping the black bars and the right edge, but not manipulated in any other way.

Taken with Media Player Classic Home Cinema.

Uncompressed: http://www.imgboot.com/image.php?u=K...dcropped44.png

BD-9: http://www.imgboot.com/image.php?u=K...9cropped44.png

The BD-9 was made in BD-Rebuilder using the High quality setting, not the Highest and slowest setting.
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Old 27-01-2009   #36
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Re: BD Rebuilder vs original Blu-ray movie (hi-res pics)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerry56 View Post
All right, if you can stand it, here are two more cropped images for your enjoyment. These are from the movie Serenity, encoded in VC-1 originally. These images are reduced in size by cropping the black bars and the right edge, but not manipulated in any other way.

Taken with Media Player Classic Home Cinema.

Uncompressed: http://www.imgboot.com/image.php?u=K...dcropped44.png

BD-9: http://www.imgboot.com/image.php?u=K...9cropped44.png

The BD-9 was made in BD-Rebuilder using the High quality setting, not the Highest and slowest setting.
Granted, this is not a 50" TV, but I went back and forth at least a dozen times and I couldn't tell the difference. If the image was moving, it would be impossible. Which is all I was trying to say before. At any rate, nice job, very promising software.
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Old 27-01-2009   #37
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Re: BD Rebuilder vs original Blu-ray movie (hi-res pics)

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Originally Posted by zevia View Post
The discussion is becoming more interesting.
I will try BD9 and let you guys know!
BD9 of Transformers finally finished in 10 hours using Highest setting and burn to Verbatim 8x DVD+R DL it skips all over the place on my PS3.

Can't tell the PQ difference then.. sorry.
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Old 27-01-2009   #38
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Re: BD Rebuilder vs original Blu-ray movie (hi-res pics)

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BD9 of Transformers finally finished in 10 hours using Highest setting and burn to Verbatim 8x DVD+R DL it skips all over the place on my PS3.

Can't tell the PQ difference then.. sorry.
Don't have Transformers but I do know that the PS3 had issues with full disc back-ups being an AVCHD disc..... movie only should have no issues whatsoever.
Is that Transformers Bluray a seamless branching title? Multiple m2ts files making up the movie?

I've done over 20 now and my Sony BDP-BX1 player plays them all perfectly, with one exception (My Best Friend's Girl), which was a seamlessly branched movie and did give earlier versions of BD-RB some trouble. Version 0.18.07 should be fine with them now though.
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Old 27-01-2009   #39
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Re: BD Rebuilder vs original Blu-ray movie (hi-res pics)

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BD9 of Transformers finally finished in 10 hours using Highest setting and burn to Verbatim 8x DVD+R DL it skips all over the place on my PS3.

Can't tell the PQ difference then.. sorry.
Could u please upload at least 1 minute BD9 quality of Transformers?
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Old 27-01-2009   #40
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Re: BD Rebuilder vs original Blu-ray movie (hi-res pics)

@MBK, no seamless, only 1 m2ts for the main movie. My PS3 can play ACHD well if you noticed I made a BD2DVD guide where the output is AVCHD on DVD media.

@Auzzie Kid, I don't think the Transformers BD9 is good for comparison since it skipped. My other machine almost finished doing BD9 for Live Free or Die Hard then I will try to upload it. I think 1 minute is too large but let's see!
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Old 27-01-2009   #41
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Re: BD Rebuilder vs original Blu-ray movie (hi-res pics)

Does your BD-9 of Transformers work in your computer zevia? Just curious if something happened in processing or if it is just a playback issue in the PS3.
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Old 27-01-2009   #42
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Re: BD Rebuilder vs original Blu-ray movie (hi-res pics)

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Does your BD-9 of Transformers work in your computer zevia? Just curious if something happened in processing or if it is just a playback issue in the PS3.
Yes it works in my PC and it also skipped in my friend's PS3. I tried another AVCHD in my PS3 and it's fine.
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Old 27-01-2009   #43
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Re: BD Rebuilder vs original Blu-ray movie (hi-res pics)

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All right, if you can stand it, here are two more cropped images for your enjoyment. These are from the movie Serenity, encoded in VC-1 originally. These images are reduced in size by cropping the black bars and the right edge, but not manipulated in any other way.

Taken with Media Player Classic Home Cinema.

Uncompressed: http://www.imgboot.com/image.php?u=K...dcropped44.png

BD-9: http://www.imgboot.com/image.php?u=K...9cropped44.png

The BD-9 was made in BD-Rebuilder using the High quality setting, not the Highest and slowest setting.
Slideshow both images in the HDTV 46" Panasonic Plasma --> the BD9 is softer, not much but if you look you'll find pixel interpolations (check around right eye).

Put them in my PC - 21" Samsung LCD, in IE zoomed 300% (about the same size as HDTV), yes you can see the BD9 is softer.

The point is, if one image from BD9 is softer, two images, three images...... and all images are softer -- for sure you are going to watch an altered video than the original BD50.
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Old 27-01-2009   #44
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Re: Blue Ray to DVD? How?

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And I suppose you can just go out to any store and get 'top quality' BD-R 50s or 25s for the price you state??
Show me where those $9 & $4 BD-Rs are...
Who the heck going to pay $20-25 if you know how to get $4 and $9?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MBK View Post
Since you believe in strictly bitrates (and not how and with what it was encoded with ) and not what our eyes see for themselves.... and since you seem stuck on DVD bitrates....

Let me ask you this final question...

Can you see the differences between two DVD-5 back-ups that are shrunk from an original 3 hour movie DVD to single layer , one using, let's say DVDFab or another if you feel, and the other using DVDRebuilder??
They are the same exact bitrate in the end, and they both started with the same exact bitrate source..... so why the 'visual' difference????
I made a BD9 in the weekend and I regret wasted 10 hours and a piece of DL. Alright, the quality is good, but it is only as good as DVD version upconverted in my HDTV.
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Old 27-01-2009   #45
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Re: BD Rebuilder vs original Blu-ray movie (hi-res pics)

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You are stuck on bitrates bro, if it was strictly only bitrates that determines the PQ, then why do you suppose the BD-9 is superior in PQ than a DVD DL, in DVD format??
Says who?

Quote:
Also, if bitrates are the absolute parameter, then why the different settings described by Dark Shikari, if the output will be of the same bitrate anyways???
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...2&postcount=23
First pass algorithm can vary but at the end will squeeze into 8GB media, it will not be able to fit all the details that a 50GB can do.

BD50 --> BD25 = okay
BD50 --> BD9 = DVD9 upconverted
BD50 --> BD5 = not okay
IMO.
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Old 27-01-2009   #46
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Re: BD Rebuilder vs original Blu-ray movie (hi-res pics)

Bourned, I don't think anyone is arguing that BD-9 is the same quality as the uncompressed video. I just think the compression abilities of the H264 codec are astounding to give the results we are seeing here. The BD-9 output is clearly superior to DVD by the way. I have the dvd of Serenity and have compared, and there really is no contest on quality.
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Old 27-01-2009   #47
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Re: BD Rebuilder vs original Blu-ray movie (hi-res pics)

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Bourned, I don't think anyone is arguing that BD-9 is the same quality as the uncompressed video.
Thank you for confirming.
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Old 27-01-2009   #48
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Re: BD Rebuilder vs original Blu-ray movie (hi-res pics)

Zevia. Did you see this post over at doom9 about BD-9 in the PS3? This was posted by drmih in this thread: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=144208

Okay, I have now tried it and can confirm that a disc done by BD-RB and put on a dvd-9 will not play as a blu ray disc on a ps3. However, it appears as a data disc and if you go to the STREAMS directory it lists the M2TS files and you can play them individually. As it shows the length it's not hard to pick out the movie.
Not perfect but what do people expect - bloody great first stab. Interestingly the dvd-9 is written as UDF 2.5 but is still seen as a data disc. It behaves the same as a bd if it's a UDF 1.0
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Old 27-01-2009   #49
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Re: Blue Ray to DVD? How?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bourned View Post
Who the heck going to pay $20-25 if you know how to get $4 and $9?
Well I asked where you getting those $9 and $4 BD-Rs?? But instead, this is your answer??...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bourned View Post
I made a BD9 in the weekend and I regret wasted 10 hours and a piece of DL. Alright, the quality is good, but it is only as good as DVD version upconverted in my HDTV.
B.S. You're still trying to back-up your arguement of bitrates being the absolute difference maker.... so I'm sure you'll see wht you want to, regardless...lmao.
...or... you don't have as good of a system as you claim.

You still haven't answered why then does DVD-Rebuilder using any of the encoders down to 4.7GBs, look as good as the original 8 GB DVD??
I'll wait for your answer..... but I can see it'll be useless to attempt any further to get you to understand the concept.
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Old 27-01-2009   #50
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Re: BD Rebuilder vs original Blu-ray movie (hi-res pics)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerry56 View Post
Bourned, I don't think anyone is arguing that BD-9 is the same quality as the uncompressed video. I just think the compression abilities of the H264 codec are astounding to give the results we are seeing here. The BD-9 output is clearly superior to DVD by the way. I have the dvd of Serenity and have compared, and there really is no contest on quality.
Thanks Kerry, exactly the point I was trying to get bourned to grasp...
To the naked eye, watching the BD-9 in real speed, extremely hard to see the differences from the original.

But I can see that he already picked and chose what he wanted out of your post...
I also found it kinda funny how he 'had to' point out one little spec of a difference on 'the right eye'...lmfao .....imagine if it was playing in real time??
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