3 years on....back to the same question; what drive?

Hi, I had signed up with CDFreak almost 3 years ago to get help with buying a new DVD drive, which people here helped me with greatly, so thank you to all.

Well, now I'm back to the same place again, over the past 3 years I've used NEC ND2500, ND3500, Benq DW1620, DW1640 & DW1655. Except for the ND3500 & DW1620 I still use the rest. But its time for an update, so I need some suggestions on the latest models, as I've been out of the DVD drive loop for more than a year now!

Scanning/TRT drive, something that will do as close to a 1:1 of the entire sectors on the disk as possible. The NEC drives used to do a 1.00 to a 1.01 ECC & the Liteon's used to be a close second to that, the Benq's usually do a 8.00+.

#1 - TRT/Read test [I know the NEC's used to be not so good at reading so those were always recommended for TRT tests and I still use the ND2500, just that need to move to SATA!]

#2 - PIE/PIF, POE/POF & Jitter @ at least 8x, the main thing here is accuracy & as complete a scan of the disc as possible. Example, the Benq's would scan crap on DVD's burned on most other drives!

#3 - Jitter [& also TE/FE/Beta capabilities is a plus, but not required], in case the main scanning [PIE/PIF] drive is incapable of Jitter scan. Benq's could do TE/FE & Plextors could do Beta, but Plex's are too expensive for most use & too slow 1x/2x scanning speed!

#4 - C1 & C2 for CD scanning! Liteon DVD burners were too unreliable for CD scanning as the results would vary wildly & Benq's never did any C2!

Burning drive, forget TRT/reading & ripping DVD5/DVD9 for a bit completely, I'm going to use this drive, or 2, just for burning! Yes I know theres a thread with votes from people on the best 5 drives, but my requirements a re a bit different.

Currently the DVD's I use are TY T02 8x DVD+r & 52x CD-r disc's, all are SONY & OEM TY branded. In the future I will continue to use TY/re-branded & Verbatim disc's, 8x/16x for DVD's, 32x-52x CD's, 8x DVD+rw's, 8x DVD+r DL. I might start using DVD-ram, but I'm not worried about those right now.

#5 - So whats a good one/2 from:
ASUS[are they re-branded?]/Benq[do they even make their own drives anymore?]/Liteon/LG/NEC[/Optirac/SONY]/Phillips/Pioneer/Samsung.

#6 - In case the recommended drive for DVD isn't good at CD burning, whats a good drive for that?

#7 Whats a good drive for ripping CD & DVD's?

Thanks in advance.

#1: Optiarc [new name for NEC's joint venture with Sony, but made by NEC mostly] AD-717xS
#2: Recent LiteOn drives [about all that is left that's new that will scan for SOME of that]
#3: Recent LiteOn drives [again, about all that is left that's new that will scan for SOME of that]
#4: Optiarc drives--EXCLUDE the AD-719x series [they're based on LiteOn DVDRW drives]

Suggested recommendation for a new drive for scanning and TRT: any recent LiteOn drive [20A1S, 20A3S, 20A4S, or iHAS120], paired with one of your BenQ drives [for scanning], with an older Optiarc AD-7170S [for TRTing and scanning CDs]. New BenQ drives are just re-badged LiteOns [LO bought BQ]. Real Plextors [for scanning] are not made anymore, but can be found on eBay. Might not be worth it, though.

#5: Pioneer DVR-x12, x15, x16 series drives; Optiarc AD-720x series drives
#6: The drives from #5 are supposed to be good for CD burning.
#7: Samsung SH-S202/203/223 drives are good for ripping. Also, LiteOn's recent drives are pretty stable. Most other drives are equally capable, though.

Recommended drive for writing: either Pioneer DVR-215/216 or Optiarc AD-7200S. Both can do well with ripping, though Samsungs can usually be patched to go faster, especially the 22x SH-S223.

Thanks for the prompt reply Albert.

So this seems to be the recommendation, in a summary:

TRT + CD scanning C1/C2
- Optiarc NEC AD-7170S
? Is there any difference between AD-7170S & AD-7173S [i cannot find any 7173 online.]
? Can the newer AD-720xS also perform the CD scan + CD/DVD TRT as reliably/comparable to the older 717xS or have the newer chipsets been improved for reading that its completely different from the older 717xS models?

TRT + DVD scanning PIE/PIF, POE/POF, Jitter, TE/FE/BETA
- LiteOn iHAS120, whats the difference with iHAS220?
- LH-20A1S/LH-20A1L; I'm guessing these are both the same, with the latter being the LightScribe model.
- Any difference between A1S, A3S, A4S or the S120/S220?

CD + DVD burning
- Pioneer DVR-215D/216D, whats the difference between 215/216, as I can't seem to find any 216 models.
- Optiarc AD-7200S/7203S, any difference between these?
- I have read up on the pioneer & optiarc model's, seems they both use either the same, or very similar [read NEC] chipsets.
? Are there any real difference between Pioneer/Optiarc that I should be aware of; probably only in firmware!

CD + DVD ripping
- Samsung SH-S202/203/223 for speed.
* as mentioned the LiteOn, along with Pioneer & Optiarc are also good at ripping, i can skip the Samsung as a ripper, unless it has other uses & get an extra burner, either 2 Optiarc's or 1 each Pioneer/Optiarc!

Based upon the answers in Albart's post, I plan on getting:

AD-7170/7173 + LiteOn [which model?]
= TRT + scanning + ripping with CD + DVD

2 x Optiarc AD-7200S/AD-7203S
OR
1 x Optiarc AD-7200S/AD-7203S + 1 x Pioneer DVR-215D/DVR-216D
= burning CD + DVD with -R, +R/+RW/+DL

Hi,7173S supports Labelflash, S means Sata btw.
But why won't you stick with your Benqs as CD scanners?
The 216 is brand new.
Like with 717x, the 7203 supports Labelflash.
For detailled specs look here: http://www.sonynec-optiarc.com/products/hhid_dvdrw/
I wouldn't buy two of the same drives.


Michael

mciahel, thanks & long time no see; glad you're still around.

Well the Benq's are old & I've used them a lot, 1640 is 3 years & the 1655 atleast 2 years, so I want to have some kind of a backup drive for scanning CD's in case either of these 2 fail! I can see what you mean, with CD/DVD Speed's Advanced Disc Quality test, on a 1640/1655, theres very few other drives that can even come close to such a comprehensive CD scan! Just that Benq won't do 1 ECC scan fast enough, too slow!

Not sure why you don't want to buy 2 drives of the same make/model, you didn't explain. I'm not trying to buy every single dvd burner out there & try them out, but rather consistency & quality burns. Also reliable, consistence TRT & PIE/PIF scans. Example, if everyone seems to get good burns using a particular make/model I don't mind having more than 1 of those drives. Too bad Benq got done in by LiteOn, otherwise I would have certainly bought 1 or 2 of those.

BTW you havent said anything about there being any difference, probably other than firmware, between the Pio 215/Opti 7200.

Anyone wanna give me a basic rundown of the LiteOn latest/models? Hopefully I can do 1 ECC scans atelast @ 8x!

Basic rundown of LiteOn's latest models, from current newest to oldest still widely available:

• iHAS220
  -part of the A6 series
  -SATA [iHAP drives are PATA]
  -not many people on here have them, so cannot say anything about burn quality
  -22x max DVD writing; most 16x media may still be at 16x max, though
  -jitter may scan higher with this drive than previous drives, but isn't confirmed by a wide population. Jitter scanning isn't supported in CD-DVD Speed/DiscSpeed [yet?]
• iHAS120
  -part of the A6 series
  -does a good job of writing DVDs; CD writing quality is unknown
  -20x max [as will be all the drives below]
  -Jitter scanning isn't supported in CD-DVD Speed/DiscSpeed [yet?]
  -CD scanning is still not reliable [as is the case for all drives below]
  -no available "CodeGuys" tweaks, although it appears LiteOn adapted the EOHT pattern [or a variant] to this drive
• DH20A4 series
  -not sure if an A4S or A4L exists
  -CD writing quality on A4P or A4H may be increased with a "test" firmware from LiteOn. Otherwise, jitter is extremely high and causes playback issues with some drives/devices.
  -DVD writing quality is okay to great, and is usually improved with the use of CodeGuys firmware [as is for all drives below].
  -DVD scanning is usually done at worse than 1 ECC [1.09 to 1.20, usually], but not that many samples are dropped. This is the case for the other drives below.
  -OverSpeeding ability is relatively weak in comparison to A3 series drives
  -reads DVD media at 16x max [SL], 12x max [DL], and 48x max [CD], as is the case for all drives below
• DH20A3 series
  -OverSpeeding ability is greater than other drives
  -heavily tuned by LiteOn with numerous test firmwares to improve performance, and has come out with some really good DVD write quality as a result
  -has patched firmware for higher SL DVD read speeds [though not sure how old the firmwares for this are]
  -CD write quality is generally better than A4 and A1 drives, though still not much better
  -SATA drives ARE known to exist, and firmware is generally equal across the line for the whole series
• LH-20A1 series
  -similar to the A4 series, except for the lack of test firmwares to improve CD writing
  -the "oldest" drive, though still considered very good
  -SATA drives of this series ARE known to exist, and have had firmware updates. This whole series has mature firmware.

Thanks again Albert.

Following is the reason why I want to change the main burning drive & also replace the scanning drive, atleast for DVD if not also CD, with a drive which is known to be consisten & error free 1 ECC scanner @ 8x.

The last time I burned DVD's was in July 03 2007, and then again yesterday, July 03 2008; ironic ain't it? But the variance in burn quality, which I know was coming & also the reason for me to want to change the Benq's, is quite appalling!

DRIVES:
--2500-nd.nec-- [->flashed with nec firmware] :TRT
--1640.bslb-rpc1-- [->1648-P2.3 ->bslb.rpc1] :SCANNER
--1655.bcib-rpc1-- [->1668-P1.5 ->bcib.rpc1] :BURNER

MEDIA BATCH:
TAIYO YUDEN T02 @ 8x -> SONY re-branded
Batch #09 -> TG001162.0410 [the batch '#9' is my own, this is how I can track & identify media spindles & places where I bought them from]

All discs that were burned are from the same spindle/batch of 50, the last 4 are around ~40, as I have 8-10 more disc left in this spindle.

SCAN SUMMARY:
________________________PIE____________PIF____POF_#SMPL
[-Burned on July 03, 2007-]
00453-08x-8:38-wopc+sb--13/0.78/09356--05/0.00/0207--0--11935
00454-08x-8:44-wopc-------14/0.97/17199--05/0.00/0251--0--17729
00455-08x-8:47-wopc-------09/0.90/16130--05/0.00/0225--0--17845
00456-08x-8:48-wopc-------12/1.01/17991--07/0.00/0359--0--17807
00457-08x-6:28-wopc-------10/0.68/08371--05/0.00/0235--0--12347
[-Burned on July 03, 2008-] <- not so good, compared to the previous 5 burns!!
00458-08x-8:11-wopc-------12/1.50/25346--09/0.04/5162--0--16873
00459-08x-7:58-wopc-------13/1.11/17971--08/0.01/1044--0--16243
00460-08x-8:45-wopc-------12/1.09/19449--09/0.01/1944--0--17879
00461-08x-8:01-wopc-------11/0.95/15483--08/0.01/1869--0--16307

Images are in order & correspond to the burn # above, so the first image is 00453 & the last is 00461:

Hi,Cheers
Well, I would only buy a second drive of the same model if I were satisfied with the first one and if I had the need for a second one. And it is always a good idea to have two excellent drives with different capabilities (or properties) with certain media.
The only thing they have in common, that is the chipset. All other parts might be different.

Perhaps something happened with your media (dust, other impurities)?

Michael

I've ordered the AD-7170S already. But waiting on ordering AD-7200S/DVR-216D [can't find DVR-216 anywhere!]. Anyone got suggestion for a SATA controller/add-in card that'l work with SATA burners?

All 4 SATA ports on the pri/burning machine is occupied by HDD's; sec/scanning machine still has 2 onboard SATA ports available.

P.S. still confused with the Lite-On drives/model numbers! Too bad Philips doesn't make Nexperia chipsets anymore [& they never enabled any of the bells/whistles on their drives to begin with, which were available on BENQ's].

Hi,Silicon Image based cards (3112/3512 or 3114) should work fine.
Since most are sold as Raid cards, these have to be "crossflashed" to non-Raid models.
See here: http://club.cdfreaks.com/f34/sata-id...2/#post1972211

Michael

I made a small mistake with 1 of the model numbers in my post above. where I say "iHAS220/iHAP220" is a 22x drive, I meant to say...

• iHAS120: SATA 20x drive
• iHAS220: SATA 20x drive with LightScribe
• iHAS122: SATA 22x drive
• iHAS222: SATA 22x drive with LightScribe
• [iHAP drives are the PATA variants].

All these drives are still A6-series drives, and the newest drives available. Many people are going for the iHAS120 or iHAS220 simply because they are the newest drives available.

Looks like the 7170S has a very picky SATA controller! I couldn't flash the lastest firmware on it when attached to the SiL3114 controller; had to put it on the MB's ICH7 based SATA controller to do it! Now its back on the SiL3114 controller.
http://club.cdfreaks.com/f86/optiarc...-dvd-r-225272/

I tried to flash it on an AMD system too, with MSI MB & a VIA South bridge, heck that SATA controller couldn't even recognize the drive & gave an "Incompatible device" error!

I didn't get a Lite-ON yet; so, I'm thinking of the following:
-Pioneer DVR-216D-:-BURNER
-Optiarc AD-7200S--:-BURNER

-Optiarc AD-7170S--:-TRT & CD/DVD Scanning [is this drive reliable for DVD scanning?]
-Benq 1640/1655---:-CD/DVD Scanning + occaissional TRT

I might get a Lite-ON later; Then theres Samsungs & LG's too!

BTW, does anyone [Philips?] use Nexperia chipsets anymore? And even so I doubt anyone will have firmware thats like Benq's, making avaialable the full functionality present in the Nexperia chipset!

To all of you who helped me with getting the new burners, thank you. I will be making some new T02 burns soon, will post the results here, for comparison.

Great thread! So much info... But I still have many questions:

(1) Afaik there are these 20x/22x non-LightScribe SATA drives: LH-20A1S > DH-20A1S > DH-20A3S > iHAS120 > iHAS322. Do other non-Lightscribe SATA drives exist/does one of these NOT exist? Is there really an iHAS122 as well/does anybody have one?

(3) Does the iHAS really use an MT1869 chipset?

(4) Is the higher numbered MT chip series, the original one without integrated buffer memory, dead?

(5) What chip does the iHAS122 use?

(6) What chip does the iHAS322 use?