Old 08-05-2002   #1
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what us law says that we cant have amplify weak sectors?

nt
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Old 08-05-2002   #2
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In the US the law is called "Digital Millenium Copyright Act" (DMCA), which forbids "copyprotection circumvention devices".
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Old 08-05-2002   #3
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so how does that apply to a software setting? seems to me cd burners should be outlawed?
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Old 09-05-2002   #4
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The simplest way to put it is:

You can't alter a programs protection in any way. If you backup a game and make a 1:1 copy, then it is legal because the protection is still on it. When you use CloneCD's A.W.S or simalar features in other programs your writer doesn't actually write these bad sectors so the protection was changed. Since it isn't a 1:1 it's illegal.

Even those Backup CD and NO CD cracks you get are illegal, they "go around" the protection.
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Old 09-05-2002   #5
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i thought they they do write them but since there pressed as weak sectors. you have to amplify them.. oh well i'm virtually live in canada
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Old 09-05-2002   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by FutureProof
Since you're an Aussie, you might be interested in our copyright laws (which are now less prohibitive then the new USA DMCA law)
Quote:
...are protected by the same federal copyright law that governs the copying of books, tapes & other intellectual property. In principle, s47C - Back-up copy of computer programs of the COPYRIGHT ACT 1968, allows the purchaser to make one copy – but before you do, take a look at s132(5B) – Offences and draw you own conclusions. Software copyright & end-user rights are further governed by the End User License Agreement, or EULA, that comes with the software. A ‘circumvention device’, in s132(5B), also means a computer program e.g. crackz & patchez (s10). Full details here Copyright Act 1968
These are my words found in various articles around these sort of forums. Apps like CloneCD don't fall into the circumvention device definition in s10 and so remain legal. If the EULA explicity prohibits a backup safety copy and the publisher/developer/owner does not offer a replacement in case of loss or damge then s47c takes precendence as does any law of the land at the time.
So the US DMCA is a little harsher about 'circumvention' which was the word used in earlier post
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Old 09-05-2002   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Filter
oh well i'm virtually live in canada
LOL
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Old 09-05-2002   #8
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so how does that apply to a software setting? seems to me cd burners should be outlawed?
No, if you are doing a 1:1 backup of a CD you are doing just that, a backup, which is completely legal. However a option specifically designed to circumvent a copyprotection scheme (SD2) is illegal under that US law.
AWS actually modifies the data being written in order to defeat that copyprotection.
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Old 09-05-2002   #9
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yes, DMCA states that you are not legally allowed to modify the compiled data in any way. whether it be to decrypt it for a crack, or switch a few ones and 0's, senator hollings is gonna be on your ass, because, of course, everyone's a criminal. hehee, boycott the riaa today !
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Old 09-05-2002   #10
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but didnt ollie sat that cd clone doesnt modify the data in anyway at all??
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Old 09-05-2002   #11
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AWS does modify the data being written in such a way as to break the regular bit patterns. However, when read back, the data is again original, because the modifications will be corrected by the layered error correction. (Unless you read with EC disabled, which you shouldn't do for real life applications anyway.)
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Old 09-05-2002   #12
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so if its not modifying data hows that altering the copyright protection?? so it wouldnt be illegal then?
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Old 09-05-2002   #13
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AWS does modify the data being written in such a way as to break the regular bit patterns.
Furthermore, it does so specifically to circumvent the copyright protection sheme known as SafeDisc2.
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Old 12-05-2002   #14
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Just buy a Lite-On and stop worrying about it. Though I have a feeling that the DMCA is (or parts of it are) going to be repealed before too long anyway.

...Correct EFM encoding of regular bit patterns...

I don't mind copy protection too much because so far there's always been a way to dupe it; it's having to dig up the game CD and stick it in the drive and wait every time I want to play that has me upset.

Next time I have to buy a replacement disc because of the copy protection/no backup I'll be sure to send Sen. Hollings the invoice.
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Old 14-05-2002   #15
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Originally posted by godzilla525
Just buy a Lite-On and stop worrying about it. Though I have a feeling that the DMCA is (or parts of it are) going to be repealed before too long anyway.

...Correct EFM encoding of regular bit patterns...

I don't mind copy protection too much because so far there's always been a way to dupe it; it's having to dig up the game CD and stick it in the drive and wait every time I want to play that has me upset.

Next time I have to buy a replacement disc because of the copy protection/no backup I'll be sure to send Sen. Hollings the invoice.
I wouldn't count on the DMCA being "repealed" or done away with. Sure, there are some congressmen who would like to see people able to copy legally what they have bought for their own protection.

However, there are just as many congressmen in the pockets of big business, as well. These companies have deep pockets. The general public, as well, does not like the idea of people stealing from recording artists and software developers.

It is up to all Americans to write to your legislators and tell them that we just want the ability to copy software for archival purposes. This right is guaranteed to us, but is slowly being taken away from us. Of course, in return, we need to allow copy protections that will cut down on the illegal copying of CDs for friends, to make a little money, etc. I think that companies can make copy protections that will do both of these things if we'll work with them.
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Old 27-05-2002   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by godzilla525
Just buy a Lite-On and stop worrying about it. Though I have a feeling that the DMCA is (or parts of it are) going to be repealed before too long anyway.

...Correct EFM encoding of regular bit patterns...

I don't mind copy protection too much because so far there's always been a way to dupe it; it's having to dig up the game CD and stick it in the drive and wait every time I want to play that has me upset.

Next time I have to buy a replacement disc because of the copy protection/no backup I'll be sure to send Sen. Hollings the invoice.
Also I would like to point out what Olli has admitted, CCD3 (I do not know about v. 4) does not make perfect 1:1 copies. It replaces unintelligible sectors with predesigned data (such as all 5's, etc.). Thus CCD4 does change the program code, which technically makes it illegal in the U.S., Japan, U.K. and Australia, if I am not mistaken. There was an article put out by the author of Blindwrite which pointed this out. I cannot find it at the moment.
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Old 27-05-2002   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by runner1000000


Also I would like to point out what Olli has admitted, CCD3 (I do not know about v. 4) does not make perfect 1:1 copies. It replaces unintelligible sectors with predesigned data (such as all 5's, etc.). Thus CCD4 does change the program code, which technically makes it illegal in the U.S., Japan, U.K. and Australia, if I am not mistaken. There was an article put out by the author of Blindwrite which pointed this out. I cannot find it at the moment.
Yes, I agree on what you said but I still want to use CloneCD 4 in U.S. , well how can you copy those WEAK sectors?
AWS is just like what you said, it changes the unreadable sectors to something else...
even if AWS is not enabled, bad sectors will be changed to something else too. that's what just you said...

So I think AWS should be enabled

If this is really a no no, that's ok, Olli.
Just keep up the good work.
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Old 27-05-2002   #18
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Originally posted by softwareguy

Yes, I agree on what you said but I still want to use CloneCD 4 in U.S. , well how can you copy those WEAK sectors?
AWS is just like what you said, it changes the unreadable sectors to something else...
even if AWS is not enabled, bad sectors will be changed to something else too. that's what just you said...

So I think AWS should be enabled

If this is really a no no, that's ok, Olli.
Just keep up the good work.
I thought in the latest version, it is (CCD4.0.1.3). I could be wrong. I am using CCD4.0.1.3, but I have the patch applied that allows AWS to be used in the U.S. Although, I understand U.S. law does not permit such a practice, it is my small protest against the continuing shrinking of the individual's rights. However, all of us need to do more to make archival copies a right for digital users. I don't care about the pirates or people who think that they should the right to use anything that someone else buys, but the average citizen should be able to protect their investment. If you need the patch to enable AWS, it is here:

http://www.geocities.com/pcp-freak/4.../unlocker.html
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Old 27-05-2002   #19
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Let me see if this work
<iframe src="http://www.micromaniacs.net/softwareguy/vote/vote.htm" width="300" height="300" frameborder="0" scrolling="auto" name="voteframe">Your broswer doesn't support frames.</iframe>
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Old 27-05-2002   #20
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I was sittin here reading this and realized the BSA is after the casual copier, maybe they should take a walk through the congressional offices and the house of representatives, at one time they found all the politicos that made a habit of bouncing checks, would be interesting to find out how many live up to the DMCA......
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Old 27-05-2002   #21
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If you start out with an unreadable sector, and end up with an unreadable sector, what does it matter what the sector contains? Nothing can read it anyway. Even if something could, the data is guaranteed to be wrong--that's why the sector is unreadable in the first place.

You're not circumventing the protection at all--you're duplicating it, replacing bad sectors with bad sectors. Two seemingly identical Factory-pressed CDs will have different data there anyway when read (and even during different reads of the same disc), because all error correction schemes on those sectors have failed, especially if you scratch the disc a little here and there.

(kamikazee also makes a very good point--look at all the criminals in the US Gov't. )
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Old 28-05-2002   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by ckin2001
yes, DMCA states that you are not legally allowed to modify the compiled data in any way. whether it be to decrypt it for a crack, or switch a few ones and 0's, senator hollings is gonna be on your ass, because, of course, everyone's a criminal. hehee, boycott the riaa today !
What does this say?
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Old 28-05-2002   #23
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So, if I were to scratch the disc right where one of those bad sectors are, changing the raw data, I would be breaking the law?

Probably not, but I'd have to read through that legislation for myself to know exactly what the deal is.

It's pretty bad when people are asked to obey laws that require a degree in law to understand... no wonder the US Gov't gets away with so much B.S.

Hollings can eat my shorts! If I was in South Carolina, I'd see to it that he would not win the next election. Or did Campaign Finance Reform make that illegal, too? :mad:
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Old 28-05-2002   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by godzilla525
So, if I were to scratch the disc right where one of those bad sectors are, changing the raw data, I would be breaking the law?

Probably not, but I'd have to read through that legislation for myself to know exactly what the deal is.

It's pretty bad when people are asked to obey laws that require a degree in law to understand... no wonder the US Gov't gets away with so much B.S.

Hollings can eat my shorts! If I was in South Carolina, I'd see to it that he would not win the next election. Or did Campaign Finance Reform make that illegal, too? :mad:
Well, if you scrath the disc, it is not illegal, but if you try to copy it, then it is illegal, also CloneCD is replacing bad sectors with hex values, which is not same as the orginal CD... I agree with you that this law is some BS.
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Old 28-05-2002   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by godzilla525
So, if I were to scratch the disc right where one of those bad sectors are, changing the raw data, I would be breaking the law?

Probably not, but I'd have to read through that legislation for myself to know exactly what the deal is.

It's pretty bad when people are asked to obey laws that require a degree in law to understand... no wonder the US Gov't gets away with so much B.S.

Hollings can eat my shorts! If I was in South Carolina, I'd see to it that he would not win the next election. Or did Campaign Finance Reform make that illegal, too? :mad:
As software guy already said, scratching the disk damages the disks, but does not change the code. CCD changes the code - that's a no no in almost any country in the world.

Check the following post:

http://slate.msn.com/?id=2063205

In the U.S. and more countries than people think, copying a copy protected disk is illegal whether you change the code or not. With the WIPO coming into play, the whole world will eventually be banded against copying anything! Check out the following link:

http://www.pcmag.com/article/0,2997,...a=27151,00.asp

particularly the discussion about the DMCA and the new OS that MS is planning.

John Dvorak doesn't believe that posters on the internet will do anything about it but complain. It appears that we have become a nation of whimps!

It is sad but true!

Get those shorts ready! I say we storm Washington!

Well, we need to at least write to our congressmen and try to get a reasonable copyright law which will protect both us and the businessman.
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