High Definition Compatible Digital

I want to back up 2 of my HDCD CD's http://www.hdcd.com/

I usually use plextools to encode wav's, but wav format is only 16 bit, and HDCD is 20 bit....

The way I understand it, with an HDCD disc, the extra 4 bits of information are squeezed into the cda track on the audio CD without changing the bitrate (still only 1114kbps), but only HDCD players are able to recognize & take advantage of the extra 4 bits of info... I'm assuming that if I rip HDCD tracks to wav, that I'll lose the extra fidelity in the recording since the software isn't an HDCD player......

If I use plextools to copy an audio disc (not DAE, just make a copy) will that copy the cda tracks bit for bit? Even if I grab the disc image with EAC, that still makes a wav file doesn't it? What do you guys think about this?

can you make a backup with wmp9?? it seems to support 24 bit cd's

or just use clonecd or blindsuite?

You can copy HDCD into 44.1 kHz 16 bits without loosing any info.
The extra 4 bits are partly a volume setting encrypted into the last of the 16 bits, and partly dithering hype.
Burning the wav on a CDR, it will be recognized as HDCD in a proper CD Player.
Unlike CD Text, all the extra HD info is encrypted inside the audio part at -90db and more than 16 kHz, not into subchannels.
Don't normalize or apply any process, or you'll loose the HD content.

Excellent reply Pio2001! -- Thank you very much for the info. Good to hear that I can rip my HDCD discs just like my normal ones

Thank you too damiandimitri -- You reminded me to ask about the 24-bit remaster cd's I was wondering about. Whats the deal with those?

1.) Pio2001, does the information you gave me apply to the 24-bit discs also? How are they different from HDCD?

2.) Do you need a special cd player to recognize the extra 8 bits of info in them?

3.) Can I also rip them into 44.1khz 16bit wav files without losing the extra fidelity?

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There is no such thing as 24 bits CD. What can be called a 24 bits remaster is a new 16 bits CD mastered from a 24 bits tape.
All audio CDs are strictly 16 bits, even HDCD ones.

The process called dithering, explained here, allows to increase the definition of low frequencies adding high frequency noise. CDs processed this way are sometimes said to have "20 bits quality", for example.

Very informative link.

Thanks again

yes..sorry...it is 20 bits.not 24

If I take the HDCD wavs and encode them to Monkeys Audio, will I still retain the HDCD content even then?

Of course... because Monkey's audio doesn't change anything.

Off topic

Pio, could it be that i saw your name also on a mpc or eac forum??

Yes, you can see me on a regular basis in Hydrogenaudio.org, EAC forum, Here, and Afterdawn.com, as well as short appearances in a few other places.

Can I rip HDCDs with audiograbber and loose no quality?

Im ripping them as wavs