Old 16-06-2004   #1
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prodisc R03 Strange round burn spots

I get what looks like round burn spots or none burn spots toward the end of theses disc if i record at 8X . Now my PI scores are very low with Kprobe usually below 20 but if I re-read this disc it will an crc error which I am guessing are these round none burn spots. These disc are rated 8X +R.

I am using a liteon 812@832 f/w vs04.

Burning at 4x or 6x with nero 6.3.1.15 and no round un burned spots at outer edge

DVD Copy at 4x and no round un burned spots at outer edge

but with either of these sofware packages at 8X with prodisc R03 and you will get the unburned or what looks like it spots on the outer edge

anybody else?
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Old 17-06-2004   #2
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Re: prodisc R03 Strange round burn spots

Try US0N @ 8x and let us know how it goes.
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Old 17-06-2004   #3
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Re: prodisc R03 Strange round burn spots

I belived he was using a patched 812@832 and burning his PRODISC RO4 at 8X. He might want to stay at this patched 812@832 that way. Downward re-flash to "S0N" meant he has to reflash back to 812S.
I would suggest that he should try other 8X media using his existing drive and see IF it may happen to others or just this Prodisc media only.

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Old 17-06-2004   #4
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Re: prodisc R03 Strange round burn spots

Flashed back to USON and flashed my eeprom back. Burnt a couple of prodisc 03 with nero and copytoDVD and on 2 disc no strange round none burn marks at the outer edge. I will try 1 more and verify. so it may be with 812@832 maybe an issue. I'll let you know my further findings
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Old 17-06-2004   #5
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Re: prodisc R03 Strange round burn spots

well upon further inspection one of the burns still has a strange round unburned spot at the outher edge but with USON it is not as bad as it was with 812@832 f/w vs04. you can barely see the round spot with vs04 it was very visable and again this is with prodisc R03 +R 8x media. burned at 8x

at 6X or 4X this it is not a problem. what is strange is with Kprobe my PI is now below 10 with stock f/w USON which is much better then with VS04 I will VS04 but with out any bit setting or speed enhancements and see how it burns at 8x
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Old 18-06-2004   #6
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Re: prodisc R03 Strange round burn spots

Ive found even with USON ive gotten burn issues like yours on certain media on cmcs i get it in the first third of the burn big jump in pi/pos. you can look at the burnt disk and see where the laser loses power (round circles lighter than the rest). not sure why though doesnt happen all the time but enough to be annoying and cause coasters. im thinking another 812 is on its way to the rma process..quality on liteons im not impressed with as far as dependability.
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Old 18-06-2004   #7
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Re: prodisc R03 Strange round burn spots

I have to say that this is a strange problem. A dot big enough to be visible to the naked eye seems strange, because the laser is hitting an area that is microscopic. So one single failure of the laser is not going to produce that big of a dot. Multiple failures of the laser would certainly cover more area, but how coincidental would it be for all of those failure just happen to form a perfectly round circle on the disc? It would, for one, mean that the failure is occurring at the same vicinity in a revolution.

So these dots make me think that either something really catastrophic happened (perhaps a biiiiiiiiiiiiiig overpower of the laser, big enough to bleed from a microscopic point to a sizeable area easily visible to the naked eye?) or that the disc has problems and that there are splotches on the disc where the dye seems to be problematic.

My best guess is that this is a problem with the media and that there are just bad spots. When I was burning my TY +Rs at 8x, I encountered the same problem with little splotches--perfectly round and pretty big (several mm in diameter). What was interesting was that one of these splotches straddled a 8x->4x downshift (the drive slowed down the burn at the end). The part that landed in the 4x region was barely visible, and if it weren't for the sharp contrast of a splotch that got cut off by the downshift, I would not have noticed it. So my theory (I must emphasize, this is all just my best educated guess based on what appears to me to be likely and unlikely scenarios) is that the 4x strat was able to better cope with these problems on the disc. So I did a test; I changed the write strat from a T01-00 to a T01-01 strat, burned another disc at 8x, and the splotch as there, but not nearly as pronounced, and the error spike from it was, well, almost non-existant.

My (educated-guess) conclusion: it's a problem with the disc, not with the laser. And with the proper write strategy, this disc defect can be better coped with.
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Old 18-06-2004   #8
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Re: prodisc R03 Strange round burn spots

Quote:
Originally Posted by code65536
I have to say that this is a strange problem. A dot big enough to be visible to the naked eye seems strange, because the laser is hitting an area that is microscopic. So one single failure of the laser is not going to produce that big of a dot. Multiple failures of the laser would certainly cover more area, but how coincidental would it be for all of those failure just happen to form a perfectly round circle on the disc? It would, for one, mean that the failure is occurring at the same vicinity in a revolution.

So these dots make me think that either something really catastrophic happened (perhaps a biiiiiiiiiiiiiig overpower of the laser, big enough to bleed from a microscopic point to a sizeable area easily visible to the naked eye?) or that the disc has problems and that there are splotches on the disc where the dye seems to be problematic.

My best guess is that this is a problem with the media and that there are just bad spots. When I was burning my TY +Rs at 8x, I encountered the same problem with little splotches--perfectly round and pretty big (several mm in diameter). What was interesting was that one of these splotches straddled a 8x->4x downshift (the drive slowed down the burn at the end). The part that landed in the 4x region was barely visible, and if it weren't for the sharp contrast of a splotch that got cut off by the downshift, I would not have noticed it. So my theory (I must emphasize, this is all just my best educated guess based on what appears to me to be likely and unlikely scenarios) is that the 4x strat was able to better cope with these problems on the disc. So I did a test; I changed the write strat from a T01-00 to a T01-01 strat, burned another disc at 8x, and the splotch as there, but not nearly as pronounced, and the error spike from it was, well, almost non-existant.

My (educated-guess) conclusion: it's a problem with the disc, not with the laser. And with the proper write strategy, this disc defect can be better coped with.
after further review im leaning toward the media for my issue. i see it not as pronounced ring on my nec 2500a burns with same cake cmc f01 of media but its in the exact same area. i think the 2500a handles this issue better than the 812. funny how reputable companies like Memorex and HP are now turning toward CMC to represent them as soon as im done with this trash im leaning on never buying those two brands again. and if verbatim starts the same trend them too.
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Last edited by Jamos; 18-06-2004 at 06:03.
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Old 18-06-2004   #9
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Re: prodisc R03 Strange round burn spots

Although there are many people have success with burning media at higher then rated speeds we must remember that it's not always successful. You are still doing something that was not intended by the media manufacturer. Just like any overclock it's never going to have a 100% success rate.
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Old 18-06-2004   #10
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Re: prodisc R03 Strange round burn spots

I will post some pic tomorrow to show you what I'm getting and these prodisc are guaranteed rated for 8x +r speeds so if it is a media issue prodisc has some explainin to do(think ricky recardo). Got them at Meritline. I used to get ritek 8x but the gave me worse burn results so I'm leary to get that brand again.
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Old 18-06-2004   #11
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Re: prodisc R03 Strange round burn spots

My mistake, I forgot we were talking about media rated at 8x. It tends to happen from time to time when you read as many threads as I do
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Old 18-06-2004   #12
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Re: prodisc R03 Strange round burn spots

here are my pics of the prodisc R03 +r 8x media

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Last edited by code65536; 19-06-2004 at 07:22. Reason: Replaced with the smaller images as requested...
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Old 19-06-2004   #13
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Re: prodisc R03 Strange round burn spots

I also have this experience for ProdiscR03 burn@8x.
I use ProdiscR03 ,sold as Digital Bank 4x +R in Taiwan.
My configuration is 451@851@GS0H BA R2.
But now I will burn this media at 8x if burn data < 3G
and burn at 6x if burn data > 3G.Until now no coaster.
I don't know this is media / firmware or hardware issue.FYI,
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Old 19-06-2004   #14
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Re: prodisc R03 Strange round burn spots

Yep, those look just like the spots that I've seen. A disc defect that the write strategy isn't coping well with...

One request (for anyone who browses these forums)... in the future, could you please shrink any photos/images that are posted? I'm on a dialup connection right now as I'm away from my usual computer, I'm starting to remember what life with dialup is like. I'm sure that there are other dialup users who would appreciate it as well.

Edit: Thanks for shrinking the file size!
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Last edited by code65536; 19-06-2004 at 07:59.
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Old 19-06-2004   #15
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Re: prodisc R03 Strange round burn spots

I have seen those same marks when burning to Ritek R02 at 8x with my LiteOn.
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Old 19-06-2004   #16
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Re: prodisc R03 Strange round burn spots

so is this a firmware issue or just bad media. It's getting hard to find middle of the line prices +r media at 8X. when Ritek had the ricoh badge the burns were so much better what happen to the Ritek quality I getting gun shy buying any Ritek stuff andy body else having better luck besides high end media burning at 8X with out these spots. Again I don't mind burning at 6X but sheesh
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Old 19-06-2004   #17
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Re: prodisc R03 Strange round burn spots

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilchina1
so is this a firmware issue or just bad media. It's getting hard to find middle of the line prices +r media at 8X. when Ritek had the ricoh badge the burns were so much better what happen to the Ritek quality I getting gun shy buying any Ritek stuff andy body else having better luck besides high end media burning at 8X with out these spots. Again I don't mind burning at 6X but sheesh
This is mostly a bad media issue. How badly the bad media affects the burns is dependent on the write strategy used (firmware).
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Old 19-06-2004   #18
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Re: prodisc R03 Strange round burn spots

Hmmm this happens when i try burning ritek g04s at 8x or 6x when they are only 4x discs

seems like the media cant take the extra speed

I would not be surpised that if u change media it will most certainly disappear
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Old 19-06-2004   #19
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Re: prodisc R03 Strange round burn spots

I've also heard rumors of companies poisoning their dyes on purpose because they don't want people to overspeed their discs and to buy their more expensive, higher-profit-margin 8x discs instead. Sigh.
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Old 19-06-2004   #20
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Re: prodisc R03 Strange round burn spots

but the problem is these prodisc r03 are rated at 8x not 4x and using speedhack to burn at 8x. The are advertised and label 8x and yet you get these spots on the when burning at 8x if it is a media issue the isn't that false advertising if you can't really burn the at 8x reliably.
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Old 20-06-2004   #21
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Re: prodisc R03 Strange round burn spots

Quote:
Originally Posted by code65536
I've also heard rumors of companies poisoning their dyes on purpose because they don't want people to overspeed their discs and to buy their more expensive, higher-profit-margin 8x discs instead. Sigh.
Well if those rumors are true who knows how that will effect the lifetime of data.

Its starting to get rediculus how companys can sell such crap as princos on the market With almost every company falling in quality it seems like dvd wont be a long lasting backup solution as some ppl want
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Old 21-06-2004   #22
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Re: prodisc R03 Strange round burn spots

I would tend to agree the finger points at bad media, my guess is that the dye is applied by a print process and on occasion due to some contamination of the plastic resin used for the cd the dye layer is thin or non existent in some areas causing these spots and resulting in bad burns. The only solutionis to only buy media from companies with very tight QC procedures-unfortunately this tends to push up the price.
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