Old 22-06-2002   #1
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Difference between 80 pin and 40 pin IDE cables

Hey. I was wondering if anybody can tell me the difference between a 40 pin and an 80 pin IDE cable. I am thinking about getting some new IDE cables, and I was wondering if you use 80 pin with HD's and 40 pin with CD-R, or does it matter or what. I have a WD 120gig SE drive, and an IBM 40gig SE drive. I also have a Sony CD-R 12X8X32X, and a Lite-on 163 DVD. Can anybody tell me what kind of cables I need for these drives.

Also, I have some cables, and how do I tell if there are the 80 pin kind of cables or the 40 pin kind of cables. Thanks for any help.

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Old 22-06-2002   #2
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http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/id...erformance.htm has wealth of information on the ATA interface 40 vs 80 pin cable etc. - it even explains the mysteries of cable select in a clear way
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Old 23-06-2002   #3
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I use the 80 conductor cables on the hard drives AND the CDs.
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Old 24-06-2002   #4
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In my experience, as long as your dont mix HDD with CDR/W/DVD drives on a single IDE channel, then it really doesnt matter if you use 40 or 80 conductors cable in connecting them, since they are no where close the working limit of even a DMA33 cable; and you dont even risk cable select compatibility problem since CD drives does not support them.

But beware that some drive does have some compatbility problem with some IDE controller when used as a single Master on a cable.
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Old 24-06-2002   #5
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Just a little note, dyn0, if you have an older MOBO the 80 pin cables may not fit. Tried it for myself on my Abit BH6.

After doing some further reasearch it seems the cable problem is just a matter of finding the right cable design as different manufactureres hae different keying systems (or none at all).

(start mumbling to myself)

I'm going to try to find an 80-conductor cable that will fit my motherboard. My data transfer rates are very low compared to its tested capabilities and I suspect the 40 conductor cable may be the limiting factor.

(end mumbling to myself)


Last edited by 83bj60; 24-06-2002 at 07:58.
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Old 24-06-2002   #6
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This is technically correct, though I have connected my HD (DMA 100) with a DVD-ROM drive (DMA 66). I suppose this does slow down my HD, but I don't use the DVD drive much, so I am not sure if it makes that much difference.



Quote:
Originally posted by tylau
In my experience, as long as your dont mix HDD with CDR/W/DVD drives on a single IDE channel, then it really doesnt matter if you use 40 or 80 conductors cable in connecting them, since they are no where close the working limit of even a DMA33 cable; and you dont even risk cable select compatibility problem since CD drives does not support them.

But beware that some drive does have some compatbility problem with some IDE controller when used as a single Master on a cable.
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Old 24-06-2002   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by tylau
In my experience, as long as your dont mix HDD with CDR/W/DVD drives on a single IDE channel, then it really doesnt matter if you use 40 or 80 conductors cable in connecting them, since they are no where close the working limit of even a DMA33 cable; and you dont even risk cable select compatibility problem since CD drives does not support them.

But beware that some drive does have some compatbility problem with some IDE controller when used as a single Master on a cable.
Interesting, tylau and theoretically correct in terms of transfer speed but 80 cable conductors are supposed to reduce noise and when noise is reduced transfer rates are increased as the drive does not have to resend data twice. Remember the 40-conductor cables where designed for transfer speeds of 5MB/s!

Your remark on drive incompatibility issues with certain controlers piqued my curiosity - where could I learn more on this? thanks!
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Old 24-06-2002   #8
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speed increase

I just switched my Lite-On drive's cable from a 40pin cable to an 80pin cable, and I just noticed a major speed increase on seek times, and transfer rates. I am not sure why this happens if a 40pin cable does go at 5mb/sec, but I did notice it. Maybe I was using a bad cable or something. Anyway, I have also put my burner on an 80pin cable, and I am not getting buffer underruns as much as I used to get them. I recommend using an 80pin cable for everything.. Maybe its just in my case though. thanks guys.

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Old 24-06-2002   #9
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I dont know if 40 conductors are used for such a low transfer rate, but what I know is that you dont necessary need to run DMA66 device with 80conductor cable; and if they are not really using it. I still cant found an analogy of CDROM RAID in action.

Possibly some HDD websites could have thorough explanation on cables and their terminologies. But the STR rate of fastest HDD are just surpassing about 50MB/s, which is what I think is relevant to what is dicussed here.
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Old 24-06-2002   #10
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I think the issue here is the burst data transfer rate, when the drive's cache/buffer dumps data quickly, as opposed to the sustained transfer rate where you're reading it off the disks as the information passes under the heads. The burst rate is significantly higher than the sustained rate, obviously. If you want your drive to be able to operate at it's highest possible burst rate with low errors, then the 80 conductor cable can help.

AFAIK, the 80 conductor cables are required for reliable UDMA66 and above. Our beloved Liteys are all UDMA33 devices, but the additional noise immunity the 80 conductor cable gives over the 40 conductor cable can only help. I have had excellent success and minimum coasters using my setup.

I use 40 conductor cables only on slow PIO stuff. Regardless, SCSI is still my fave.
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Old 25-06-2002   #11
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I would have to say the differance bewteen a 80 pin and 40 pin connector is about 40 pins.
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Old 25-06-2002   #12
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Quote:
I would have to say the differance bewteen a 80 pin and 40 pin connector is about 40 pins.
The connector is 40 pin, regardless of whether you use 40 or 80 wire (conductor) cables.
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Old 25-06-2002   #13
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Hmm how can i tell if i have a 40 / 80 pin connector installed ?

is there a proggy that can tell you ?

also is there a proggy that can tell you if you are leaking noice in the cables !


Tnx ned help on this asap.............
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Old 25-06-2002   #14
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As burnproof suggests all ATA cables have 40 pins, but the ATA 100s have 80 wires for better, more reliable data transfer. You can tell the difference as the ATA 100/133 have a blue conector for the MOBO a grey conector for the slave drive and a black for the master. They are backward compatible and can be used on older ATA 33 drives and CD/DVD players and writers.

T/M
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Old 25-06-2002   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by ViRuS2k
is there a proggy that can tell you ?
Yes, Intel Aplication Accelerator do, also some BIOSes detect/show in the boot process.

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Old 26-06-2002   #16
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Yeah, let's get this terminology straight. All the IDE cables have 40 pin connectors. The better cables (UDMA66 and up) have 80 conductors, the cheapos have 40 wires. The 80 wire (conductor) cables have better immunity to crosstalk and noise pickup. Therefore, the 80 conductor cables should provide more reliable and error-free operation.
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Old 26-06-2002   #17
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Quote:
Hmm how can i tell if i have a 40 / 80 pin connector installed
Generally, the 80 wire/conductor cable will have finer wire than the 40 wire cable. (Now, don't start cutting your IDE cables to check if this is indeed true! )

This usually means that the 40 wire cable will not be as flexible as a 80 wire cable (Try bending both, you'll feel the difference).

Another way is to look at the ridges between the wires. They are usually more pronounced on the 40 wire cable than on the 80 wire.
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Old 26-06-2002   #18
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Tnx guys for your help !!

ok i have one 80 pin connector installed hooked up to my liteon burner 48125W :P

i didnt no that

but in the bios during boot it says NO 80 PIN CONNECTOR INSTALLED ?

so i figured it could be that i dont have a 80 pin connected to my hdd and dvdrom 163 D

and i had a look hehe :P

and its more blockier cable as you sead burnproof my 80 pin one on my burner is more finer

well eny way !!! can you guys tell me if this is why im getting the message during boot ?

whats the best putting a 80 pin on my ide slot 1 with my hdd and dvdrom drive ?

or leaveing it where it is on my ide slot 2 with my burner ?

hehe i think ill just get 2 bran new ones :P becuse there is something fishy with my 80 pin one !!!

you no how on my 80 pin there should be 2 connectors on it well one has been pulled off lol

and i see little holes in the cable ? shhould i install for the time being my 40 pin one it has no holes and its bran new ?


hehe i do tend to bring out all the problems on my self :P

tnx again guys.................
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Old 26-06-2002   #19
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Quote:
you no how on my 80 pin there should be 2 connectors on it well one has been pulled off lol
What were you trying to do? Convert the connector to 80 pin?

I use 40 wire cables for even the ATA 100 7200 rpm drives. Works the same as 80 wire cables.

Sometimes, holes in the IDE cables indicate a defective cable.

I'm beginning to wonder.....do you really have problems, or are you just making them up?

If there was a poll held to identify the user with the most number of posted problems, you'd probably win hands down

No man can be that unfortunate
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Old 26-06-2002   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by burnproof


What were you trying to do? Convert the connector to 80 pin?

I use 40 wire cables for even the ATA 100 7200 rpm drives. Works the same as 80 wire cables.

Sometimes, holes in the IDE cables indicate a defective cable.

I'm beginning to wonder.....do you really have problems, or are you just making them up?

If there was a poll held to identify the user with the most number of posted problems, you'd probably win hands down

No man can be that unfortunate
=============================================

lol

no mate you see the holes in the cable where due to the fact i putted the connector out a my hdd one day and the hole end came off lol all i could see was pin holes in the cable and the end was still stuck in my hdd lol

so now i got a new cable 40 pin for it :P but im thinking i should be getting a bit more speed so i was willing to try out the 80 pin cables im still looking :P

im useing that cable now with my burner lol im thinking meby i get noise now ? becuse of the holes in the cable

should i use my 40 pin or stick to the 80 pin ?
i need a test program that can detect transfer noises in cables lol

============================================

And mate i realy do have thse problems lol there all i bit silly i gotta admit but there all true

eny way what do ya suggest ? 40 pin or 80 pin ? and how much difrence will a 80 pin be over a 40 pin

tnx........
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Old 26-06-2002   #21
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You won't get any real speed increase from switching, tried that

BUT the fact remains the 80-wire cable is more noise proof therefore there is a lesser chance of getting data transefer errors which otherwise would slow the daat transfer down.

I managed to find an 80-conductor cable that would fit my motherboard connectors (40 pins versus 39) and have found no real world differences. Only thing I really dislike about these wires is that the master mmust be at the end of the cable even if masters almost always are the closest ones to the motherboard connector... Who's the bright engineer who designed it this way? never saw a computer when he established that norm? Maybe a switched around drive connector would have helped! Maybe I should make my own...

Anyway it works fine. I paid $CDN8 for the 80 conductor cable, the same in 40 was selling for $5.
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Old 27-06-2002   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tremo
I think the issue here is the burst data transfer rate, when the drive's cache/buffer dumps data quickly, as opposed to the sustained transfer rate where you're reading it off the disks as the information passes under the heads. The burst rate is significantly higher than the sustained rate, obviously. If you want your drive to be able to operate at it's highest possible burst rate with low errors, then the 80 conductor cable can help.

AFAIK, the 80 conductor cables are required for reliable UDMA66 and above. Our beloved Liteys are all UDMA33 devices, but the additional noise immunity the 80 conductor cable gives over the 40 conductor cable can only help. I have had excellent success and minimum coasters using my setup.

I use 40 conductor cables only on slow PIO stuff. Regardless, SCSI is still my fave.
I dont know much about bursting, but since the use of buffer is an ongoing process for the entire burning, data enter the buffer as fast as they exit(burn), although it might be much higher than the average transfer rate, it isnt necessary to design a bursting rate much higher than the average transfer rate (i.e. the STR). Even on many HDD with much higher STR, the cache controller onboard of a UDMA66 drive operates on a 8 bit internal cache bus at only 100MHZ clock rate which translate into about 100MB/s max. cache data transfer for a UDMA66 drive which is doing about 40MB STR.

So even for a 60X CDR/W drive with 9MB/s average throughput, I dont see any reason for going much about this value in bursting transfer; especially the burning today is still mostly based upon max CLV mode.
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