Old 08-12-2004   #26
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Re: Plextor PX-716a firmware 1.02

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Originally Posted by rolling56
zevia > I thought sure you was out getting 1 today. lol I might go take a look at my BB tomorrow just for shee-ats and grins.
If I have no deadline this friday, I probably took 1 today lol. Don't push my rolling... lol.
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Old 08-12-2004   #27
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Re: Plextor PX-716a firmware 1.02

Team,

I've been folowing the posts on this drive for months and it seems Plextor just can't find the handle on where they've gone wrong here.

As the proud owner of a PX-708A (my second Plextor optical drive) I was saddened that I had to reccomend a BenQ, or a NEC, or even a Pioneer today (in that order) to a friend who was picking up a Burner for someone this Christmas. I told him I couldn't in all honesty say go get this Plextor

I've been waiting to add this to my own Christmas List. Looks like another Lump of Coal.
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Old 08-12-2004   #28
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Re: Plextor PX-716a firmware 1.02

Jim

we have seen 3 hardware updates 0000 0101 0202 and 3 fw update 1.00 1.01 1.02

I do have to say that 1.02 has done best job yet at 12x and 16x on scans I have seen. Sure my pioneer, BenQ, nec do better level wise , but compared to first plextor fw 1.00 , 1.02 is great boost in quality.
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Old 08-12-2004   #29
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Re: Plextor PX-716a firmware 1.02

Ken,

Not that I'm splitting hairs but it's really 2 hardware updates and 2 fw updates (We can't count the original ).

Whatever, I still expected this Plextor to be the Best 16X DL Burner out there. I expect Premium Performance if I'm willing to pay Premium $$. Plextor seems to have lost sight of Value and is trying to pass off a substandard (at least when compared to the Bar they have set) machine. I don't think you should pay double (or more) than a technically better Burner (NEC or BenQ) and have to wrestle with returns and patches to make it compliant with Plextor's own published specifications.

Just give me the Best right out of the Box ! And I'll pay for it
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Old 08-12-2004   #30
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Re: Plextor PX-716a firmware 1.02

I think we can safely conclude that the difference in quality between hardware matters more than the TLA hardware revision, at least between TLA#00xx,01xx, and 02xx. Here's a burn on the same Yuden T02 media on my drive at true 16x (PowerRec OFF, Autostrategy ON).

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.ph...8&postcount=57

For now, it seems the luck of the draw on the individual unit you buy matters more than anything.
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Old 08-12-2004   #31
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Re: Plextor PX-716a firmware 1.02

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Originally Posted by Jim
Ken,

Not that I'm splitting hairs but it's really 2 hardware updates and 2 fw updates (We can't count the original ).

Whatever, I still expected this Plextor to be the Best 16X DL Burner out there. I expect Premium Performance if I'm willing to pay Premium $$. Plextor seems to have lost sight of Value and is trying to pass off a substandard (at least when compared to the Bar they have set) machine. I don't think you should pay double (or more) than a technically better Burner (NEC or BenQ) and have to wrestle with returns and patches to make it compliant with Plextor's own published specifications.

Just give me the Best right out of the Box ! And I'll pay for it
To be honest though, is it fair to compare the price of a retail drive to a bulk one? Unless you mean the retail versions of the ND-3500A like TDK 1616N and Mad Dog's version, and the various OEM retail versions of the DW1620.
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Old 08-12-2004   #32
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Re: Plextor PX-716a firmware 1.02

I would agree with Beeder. I would also add that it's kinda hard to pull a conclusion if we only have one burner (716a). What I mean is, there is other factors such as media batch. For instant, Beeder link above shows pretty good burn on T02 @16x (PR off) and I got the same result with my "ex" 716a AND BenQ 1620 with T02, ie always a spike at the end if burn @16x. The spike at the end doesn't means the burner can't burn well but my T02 batch is the problem (some people owns T02 that gives a straight below 20 max PIE in whatever speed).

So If someone fortunate enough to have two burners to compare the same set of media, then we can conclude a bit strongly. For example:


Yuden000 T02
Plextor 716a @16x http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.ph...6&postcount=45
BenQ 1620 @16x http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.ph...4&postcount=44

Up to this point, I can say that my 716a was doing just fine because I can confirm that BenQ 1620 gave the same result on the same batch of media, ie spikes of max PIE around 120 at the end.

Now let's see how they burn with the same batch of Verbatim 16x MCC004.

MCC004
Plextor 716a @16x http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.ph...83&postcount=7
BenQ 1620 @16x http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=138

Here, unfortunately Plextor cannot give the same result as BenQ. I can always get max PIE below 20 with BenQ1620 on MCC004, but 716a will give a spike at the end, and sometime a coaster! Thus, from both set of media, I can conclude that my 716a with that TLA and FW is not great (that's why I returned it )

One last thing, I notice that most of 716a owners show good result @12x or below, so the true test is at speed 16x !!
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Old 08-12-2004   #33
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Re: Plextor PX-716a firmware 1.02

is this a good burn? HW: 0101 FW: 1.02
verbatim 16x from BB NYC ID'd as MCC 004 00
PR ON, AS ON in Plextools but not sure if settings applied to CD/DVD Speed burn.
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Old 08-12-2004   #34
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Re: Plextor PX-716a firmware 1.02

That is a very good burn. We consider a good burn if Max PIE is below 280.
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Old 08-12-2004   #35
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Re: Plextor PX-716a firmware 1.02

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Originally Posted by zevia
That is a very good burn. We consider a good burn if Max PIE is below 280.
thanks for the quick reply, zevia.

im going to waste another disc on a plextools write transfer test with PR and AS OFF...see what my peak write time is and whether or not faster = worse quality.
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Old 08-12-2004   #36
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Re: Plextor PX-716a firmware 1.02

PX-716A TLA#0101
FW1.02
MCC004 (Verbatim 16X rated) DVD+R 16x burned @16x, 6:40 mins.
PowerRec off
AutoStrategy off

other test results here:
http://home.nyc.rr.com/drpino/DVD+R/
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Old 09-12-2004   #37
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Re: Plextor PX-716a firmware 1.02

@ zevia,

Perhaps this is not the place to re-introduce the subject, and I do not wish to be critical, but possibly the statement "We consider a good burn if Max PIE is below 280" is misleading.

I do not know the truth, but I know from the Verbatim literature on accelerated ageing tests, they consider a PIE of 280 as the cut off point for disc failure. Now I realise that in their ageing tests, a PIE above 280 does not neccessarily mean that the disc will be unreadable, but at least it is a guide.

I know there are many factors which affect disc longevity, such as dyes, bonding, heat, humidity, handling, even out-gassing from plastic storage cases. Starting off with a PIE of 280 just seems too generous. If I had a disc that had a PIE of 280 I would bin it immediately.

Obviously the other major factor is what you are trying to save. If it is data then the stringency for a good burn increases. If it is a "handling backup" of a movie, it is probably the least stringent requirement.

At the end of the day, we will only be happy if the discs we burn now will be readable by the time the next enhanced mass storage device becomes mainstream. And only time will tell.
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Old 09-12-2004   #38
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Re: Plextor PX-716a firmware 1.02

avsgenie.

Actually I have my own standard. If you click the 712a scans' link on my sig, you will see what I mean (scroll down to the bottom). That's why I said "good burn", not excellent burn.

Of course what you found in the literature is also true.
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Old 09-12-2004   #39
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Re: Plextor PX-716a firmware 1.02

what do you guys think of my scans? should i try RMA'ing or exchanging at best buy? i've burned a number of discs now and all seem fine to me?
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Old 09-12-2004   #40
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Re: Plextor PX-716a firmware 1.02

Quote:
Originally Posted by drpino
what do you guys think of my scans? should i try RMA'ing or exchanging at best buy? i've burned a number of discs now and all seem fine to me?
drpino, It's the first time I see a "good" and true 16x burn, and that's yours!

Like I said, the "score" is only good. MCC004 can be burn @16x with other burners with "excellent" scan.

I would exchange and get TLA0202. Although I'm not sure what's the difference, but at least you'll get another 30 days to try out.
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Old 09-12-2004   #41
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Re: Plextor PX-716a firmware 1.02

Quote:
Originally Posted by drpino
what do you guys think of my scans? should i try RMA'ing or exchanging at best buy? i've burned a number of discs now and all seem fine to me?
Barely within specs, nothing more. I'd RMA on the general principle that you could expect much better (from, say, BenQ or NEC or Pioneer or LG) for half the price. I would expect scans like you're showing from a no-name burner on Princo media.

ftp1020 standards:

Under max 20 PIE:
20 - 50 max PIE:
50 - 280:
>280:

For media like MCC04, I bloody well expect under 20 PIE.
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Old 09-12-2004   #42
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Re: Plextor PX-716a firmware 1.02

MCC003 8x@12x
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Old 09-12-2004   #43
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Re: Plextor PX-716a firmware 1.02

Did some scans of mcc004 burned at 12x on the 716 1.02 fw TLA:0101 model.

note all scans are the same disk that was burned on 716.
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Old 09-12-2004   #44
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Re: Plextor PX-716a firmware 1.02

Gents,

I too expect the best from Plextor and so far with this drive it's not there (yet). Altough I'm hoping against hope it finally comes back from the dark side

Thanks to you and Zevia for your Ratings Systems. I copied Zevia's below (the smilies may be wrong) from his scans. Some ARE Excellent!

zevia's Quality Score:
Excellent: PIE max <20 all the way, No POF, PIF <4
Very Good: PIE max <100, No POF, PIF <4
Good: PIE max <280, No POF, PIF <4
Bad: PIE max >280, and/or POF exist, and/or PIF >4
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Old 09-12-2004   #45
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Re: Plextor PX-716a firmware 1.02

TLA 0202 is still starting the burn at 6x. So it still needs that stupid jump in spindle speed towards the end of the burn to reach 16x
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Old 09-12-2004   #46
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Re: Plextor PX-716a firmware 1.02

I'm not aware of any 16x burner that starts at a higher speed than 6x. Plextor just needs to up the rate at which the burn speed increases so it won't need that jump at the end.
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Old 09-12-2004   #47
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Re: Plextor PX-716a firmware 1.02

YSS finally got a PX-716A (Buffalo OEM version) and put up some tests with 16x media: http://homepage2.nifty.com/yss/dm16fbs/ta16x.htm

It looks like with the 16x DVD+R discs, only the MCC004 was able to reach 16x. TDK003 and MAXELL003 were limited to 12x (probably dropped down to 12x at the very end). The 16x DVD-R discs were able to reach 16x fully but the burns for them aren't that great.
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Old 09-12-2004   #48
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Re: Plextor PX-716a firmware 1.02

Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Degrees
I'm not aware of any 16x burner that starts at a higher speed than 6x. Plextor just needs to up the rate at which the burn speed increases so it won't need that jump at the end.
I believe that the start speed was higher with firmware 1.00, but they decreased it with firmware 1.01 for some reason.

My burns were taking 5:56 with firmware 1.00. But now with firmware 1.01 the burn takes 6:25. Hopefully Plextor will have another firmware llike version 1.00.
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Old 09-12-2004   #49
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Re: Plextor PX-716a firmware 1.02

http://plextor.cdbest.net/

Here is specially services for China.
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Old 09-12-2004   #50
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Re: Plextor PX-716a firmware 1.02

Interesting!!

http://homepage2.nifty.com/yss/dm16fbs/dm16fbs.htm

Looks like Auto strategy ON = Crappy discs and Auto Strategy OFF = Good discs. That's not too promising..... Hmz I want one of these to play with and see/test for myself. We'll see if they turn up here sometime soon.
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