DVD+ vs. DVD- Which is Best?

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Plextor Writer Discuss, DVD+ vs. DVD- Which is Best? at CD and DVD Writers forum; I have just bought the Plextor 708A and am very confused about this issue. I'm sure it's been beat to death, but could someone please help. Thanks Very Much!! Is one mode of recording better than the other. I want to be able to play my recording back in my

Old Posted: 10-03-2004
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jreed (CD Freaks Rookie)
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I have just bought the Plextor 708A and am very confused about this issue. I'm sure it's been beat to death, but could someone please help. Thanks Very Much!! Is one mode of recording better than the other. I want to be able to play my recording back in my home dvd player.
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Old Posted: 10-03-2004
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According to some sites -R has a higher compatibility rate than +R (5-10%) but my personal experience is that they're the same. The only downside I can think of is that +R may be read slower than -R in some dvd drives. You may need to use only one type in some cases like when doing backups of games for consoles or dvd-movies for some dvd players though.

To sum this up: If you're going to use dvd discs in units that accepts both types buy the cheapest quality media you can find regardless of type and stack a few -R/+Rs if you know that you'll need those for a particular unit.
//Danne
Last edited by DiiZzY; 11-03-2004 at 00:10.
Old Posted: 10-03-2004
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jreed (CD Freaks Rookie)
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I appreciate the reply. That helps a lot!!
Old Posted: 11-03-2004
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valnar (CD Freaks Member)
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It has also been shown on some professional publications (C'T in Germany) that DVD-R discs tend to have better write quality. I don't know if this gap has closed, but I use DVD-R only for video.

-Robert
Old Posted: 11-03-2004
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I think it's nonsense to say that DVD-R has better write quality than DVD+R since it depends mostly on the quality of the media and not on the used format. I think there is no major difference between the - and + format but technology wise, DVD+R is superior.

Why DVD+R(W) is superior to DVD-R(W)
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Old Posted: 11-03-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by jreed
I have just bought the Plextor 708A and am very confused about this issue. I'm sure it's been beat to death, but could someone please help. Thanks Very Much!! Is one mode of recording better than the other. I want to be able to play my recording back in my home dvd player.
DVD+R are technically superior, tighter specs, results in better quality burning, etc.

If the drive supports bit setting (burning a DVD+R as a DVD-ROM) then compatibility (in theory) will be many times better than DVD-R.

Besides that, it seems that DVD+R are moving forward faster and generally have lower error rates than DVD-R.

Also, not so many crappy media manufacturers are on the DVD+R scene yet, so your chances of getting a good bunch of DVD+R is Very good.
All the s@#t companies have established lines in DVD-R production, so chances of finding a good batch of DVD-R is just a little harder.

Considering it's a plextor though, I suspect that either way you go will be fine.

But pay a bit more for your DVD+R, as the cheap ones are usually always a false economy, especially when you find out a few months down the track that the discs are unreadable :|
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Old Posted: 11-03-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by G@M3FR3@K
I think it's nonsense to say that DVD-R has better write quality than DVD+R since it depends mostly on the quality of the media and not on the used format. I think there is no major difference between the - and + format but technology wise, DVD+R is superior
Totally agree
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Old Posted: 12-03-2004
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What is the difference between DVD-R/RW and DVD+R/RW?

The truth is that the two competing technologies use different formats. No single company "owns" DVD and both technologies have their "champions".

DVD-R/RW was developed by Pioneer. Based on CD-RW technology, it uses a similar pitch of the helix, mark length of the 'burn' for data, and rotation control. DVD-R/RW is supported by the DVD Forum, an industry-wide group of hardware and software developers, and computer peripheral manufacturers. The DVD-R format has been standardized in ECMA-279 by the Forum, but this is a private standard, not an 'industry' ISO standard like the CD-R/RW Red Book or Orange Book standard.

DVD+R/RW is also based on CD-RW technology. DVD+R/RW is supported by Sony, Philips, HP, Dell, Ricoh, Yamaha, and others, and has recently been endorsed by Microsoft. DVD+R/RW is not supported by the DVD Forum, but the Forum has no power to set industry standards, so it becomes a market-driven issue.
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Old Posted: 13-03-2004
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I think it's nonsense to say that DVD-R has better write quality than DVD+R since it depends mostly on the quality of the media and not on the used format. I think there is no major difference between the - and + format but technology wise, DVD+R is superior
Totally disagree. Show me some proof.

-Robert
Old Posted: 14-03-2004
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I got the plextor drive for the most part because I hate format wars.

for me it's about what ever costs the less, and works the best. this doesn't mean I use cheap media far from it. but I don't drop for the most expensive on the market.

Sure if I am backing up my data I want the best quality media I can afford. but for movies and videos, I only care about cost and what ever format will play back perfectly in most dvd players, the winner here is dvd-r by a landslide because we all know it works the best in most players.

but I think 90% of the problems there is with people have playing back media in home burned discs is them selfs and not the media type or the player but the person who is doing the burning or encoding. many factors can fall into place that will pervent a person from making a working dvd. I've just had it happen to many times to blame one system or anther, frends phoning me up and asking me how to burn a movie to a disc and not having the right set of tools for the job or just not listening.

at the end of the day, it's all about what works for you and your dvd player... bottem line. end of story. so use what ever format works, and if it happens to be cheap, chears mate.
Old Posted: 14-03-2004
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technology wise, DVD+R is superior.
Honestly, that article was WAY above my head. From what I could gather though, the format itself is potentially superior. But since few burners take advantage of those techological advantages, the differences between the two formats is practically moot. The thing that keeps + from realizing whatever potential it has is no burner is taking advantage of them.

Is this correct?
Old Posted: 14-03-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by John-K

the differences between the two formats is practically moot.
Quote:
so it becomes a market-driven issue.
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Old Posted: 14-03-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by John-K
Honestly, that article was WAY above my head. From what I could gather though, the format itself is potentially superior. But since few burners take advantage of those techological advantages, the differences between the two formats is practically moot. The thing that keeps + from realizing whatever potential it has is no burner is taking advantage of them.

Is this correct?
I think what it really comes down to is:

1) DVD-R will eventually work better for software companies. As the booktype is pre-written as "-R", it can easily be identified as a backup, meaning that there will never be working 1:1 copies without emulation.

2) DVD-R is basically an adaptation of 20yr old technology, whereas with DVD+R a bunch of intelligent engineers/technical professionals have thought about technilogical hurdles, and come up with a superior solution to maintain a high standard storage format.

DVD+R will be the eventual winner if the customers have a choice.
DVD-R will be the winner if the major software corporations have anything to say about it.


If anything, DVD-R is a lazy adaptation of 20yr old technology.
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Old Posted: 14-03-2004
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The only thing wrong with that arguement is it doesn't matter which format is technically superior unless you're only talking about computer data storage. DVD players, which is my main focus on using DVD-R media, expect the format closest to DVD-R. It's most like regular DVD-Video discs.

This is why many publications recommend DVD-R media for movies in today's DVD players.

Archiving data or storing files? Either one is fine, with the nod going towards DVD+R.

-Robert
Old Posted: 17-03-2004
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Quote:
I think there is no major difference between the - and + format but technology wise, DVD+R is superior
Quote:
Totally disagree. Show me some proof.

-Robert
Why DVD+R(W) is superior to DVD-R(W)

The -R media having better compatability with standalone players is something that might be true with players > 2 years old, its not the case with most new players though, which play both formats. So it depends on the player one has.
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Old Posted: 17-03-2004
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I read that article and all the technical benefits (assuming it is true) applies to DVD+R media on a PC. If the defect management of the "+" media is inherant to the reader, then standalone DVD players wouldn't know diddly about it. PC drives?, well yah, sure.

Most of the advantages of the DVD+R/W media don't seem to apply to write-once applications such as DVD movies.

Most video production houses use DVD-R media. There is a reason for that. The article talked about technical aspects of both medias, but it didn't compare actual PI/PO measurements and other measurements of quality. I have two drives that support both formats (Pioneer A06 and Liteon 451s) and get consistently much better results with my DVD-R media. This applies to the (in)famous KProbe application as well as testing a variety of video DVD players.

Once again, I care only about DVD-Video, not data storage which I concur the plus format is better suited.

-Robert
Old Posted: 17-03-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by valnar
I read that article and all the technical benefits (assuming it is true) applies to DVD+R media on a PC. If the defect management of the "+" media is inherant to the reader, then standalone DVD players wouldn't know diddly about it. PC drives?, well yah, sure.

Most of the advantages of the DVD+R/W media don't seem to apply to write-once applications such as DVD movies.
The article dealt mostly with the eror correction capabilities of DVD+R, but it also mentioned that their are tighter tolerances for DVD+R than DVD-R.

To be classified as "in spec" a burnt DVD+R will be much better than a DVD-R "in spec".
This will reuslt in much lower error rate later, when the dye on the DVDR starts to diminish a year or so after it's been burnt.
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Old Posted: 17-03-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by valnar
The article talked about technical aspects of both medias, but it didn't compare actual PI/PO measurements and other measurements of quality. I have two drives that support both formats (Pioneer A06 and Liteon 451s) and get consistently much better results with my DVD-R media. This applies to the (in)famous KProbe application as well as testing a variety of video DVD players.
There is no reason why you should get better PI/PO averages with -R than with +R, if you use good quality media on both standards. I am by no means doubting that you get better results with -R media but there's really no real comparison between media of different quality.
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Old Posted: 17-03-2004
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There is no reason why you should get better PI/PO averages with -R than with +R, if you use good quality media on both standards.
I completely agree, but I do get better DVD-R results. And so do some other professional authoring houses as well as 3rd party publications.

The technical merits cannot explain the reality!

-Robert
Old Posted: 17-03-2004
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Originally posted by valnar
And so do some other professional authoring houses as well as 3rd party publications.
Some links?
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Old Posted: 17-03-2004
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valnar (CD Freaks Member)
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It's been awhile. Somewhere in here:
http://www.heise.de/ct/

Also, find some publishing places that create DVD's for you of personal video. They tend to use DVD-R.

-Robert
Old Posted: 17-03-2004
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You can not have read C't:s articles because they have not generally got better results with DVD-R than with DVD+R. In the last article DVD-R scored better but for DVD+R they tested 8x burning for DVD+R (if available even on 4x media) vs. 4x for DVD-R. Obviously quite a few drives have issues with 8x burning but I would not be too sure that it's only a problem for DVD+R.

Then burn quality is a result of media and drive so if you get better quality with DVD-R it's because your drives are better on that format or you're using DVD-R media that your drives likes better than the DVD+R media you're using. There are on the other hand several drives that have proved to be better on DVD+R than DVD-R too so, again, you can't say anything in general about burn quality on DVD+R vs. DVD-R.
Old Posted: 17-03-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by valnar
It's been awhile. Somewhere in here:
http://www.heise.de/ct/

Also, find some publishing places that create DVD's for you of personal video. They tend to use DVD-R.

-Robert
Do you think maybe because originally DVD-R did have better compatability and they just haven't updated their information? The DVD-R used to be played by virtually any standalone player. However, virtually everything in the last 2-3 years has DVD+R support, and bitsetting can change the type to DVD-ROM anyway, so the argument is no longer valid that DVD-R has better compatability.

I've noticed that most professionals don't keep up with technological trends.
They find something (call it "mature technology" or maybe just "The first product to hit the market"), and tend to stick with it.

So I suspect the move from CDR to DVD-R was a huge step, but moving from DVD-R to DVD+R requires
1) Expenditure in money to buy new DVD+R equipment.
2) Expenditure in time learning how to use DVD+R (including best brand/model burners, best media, etc)
3) Extra thought.
4) Ongoing costs. DVD+R cost more than DVD-R (currently). They aren't going to tell everyone that they are too cheap to upgrade to a better storage medium.

So the tiny step between DVD-R to DVD+R has insignificant benefits, versus alot of effort. So they stick it out and defend what they are doing to the death (well maybe not that far) , arguing that what they are doing is the best way to do it.

Some people call it stubborness, I'd call it an "inability to adapt" which usually denotes either a lack of intelligence, or an overabundance of laziness.

I suspect that when dual layer comes out, they will be forced to re-evaluate DVD+R, as DVD+R will be the first dual layer standard, and will likely mature faster than the DVD-R (two heads are better than one).
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Old Posted: 03-04-2007
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uhmm.. can anyone simplify this topic... like advantages and disadvantages of "+R" and "-R"..?
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Old Posted: 03-04-2007
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I think the summary above is pretty accurate.

My biased perspective:

-R: greater compatibility without any hassle, slightly larger (a few megabytes) capacity (not majorly significant but occasionally useful)

+R: lower compatibility out of the box, maximum compatibility with bitsetting (if your burner supports it)

My preference is to use bitset +R media first, then -R, then non-bitset +R, in that order. This assumes all other things are equal.

If - media is cheaper or more available, I will use it. My Lightscribe DVD media happens to be -R for that very reason.
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