Just how bloated is a Vista install?

AllanDeGroot

Hi All,

something new to me so I'll post it in the newbie forum...

Over the holiday weekend I aquired a used notebook computer
(a Dell 1525 Core 2 Duo 2.0GHz with 3gb of ram and 160gb HDD)

The previous owner partioned it (oddly

1)what the hell is an "EISA configuiration" partition? it's only 39mb
but what purpose does it serve?

The two lettered partitions are "C" (Operating system) 131.86gb
and D (labeled) "Recovery" at 14.65Gb

But there's also a 2.5Gb unlettered primary partition..

This is confusing to me because I want to install a larger HDD, 160gb doesn't do it for me,so what must I clone to migrate to a 320gb drive?

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cholla

AllanDeGroot ; I have Vista but I don't have any of the unusual partitions you have on this Dell. Maybe this will explain the EISA one.You probably would never need it.
http://www.techfest.com/hardware/bus/eisa.htm#1.0: "The EISA Bus originated in 1988 & 1989. It was developed by the so called "Gang of Nine" (AST, Compaq, Epson, Hewlett-Packard, NEC, Olivetti, Tandy, Wyse and Zenith) as an alternative to IBM's "patented" Micro Channel bus. It received limited use in 386 and 486 based Personal Computers through about 1995 before being obsoleted by the PCI bus as Pentium based systems were introduced." See the above link for more info. The Micro Channel is dead as is the OS/2 operating system. Wintel (Microsoft/Intel)won; IBM lost. Unix has survived.
The recovery partition is self explanitory .I eliminated the one on my computer whan I got Acronis True Image.I never liked the Lenovo Recovery anyway. So with a good backup software you could eliminate that.
I have no idea what the 2.5 GB unlettered partition might be.Does int have any files in it ?
For Vista bloat mine with a fresh install is around 12GB which grows overtime.
If you don't take control of the hidden SVI folder it will continue to grow in size.This is partly because it contains the system restore points if you use system restore.
The other one you can't do much about .It may not actually be the size it reports as it is full of links & junctions to other files on your Vista. It is the winsxs folder.
Hope this helps.

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AllanDeGroot

Ok, like I said this Vista stuff is new to me, and there are some "neat" applications that I wouln't want to lose going to win7 (atleast not yet)

But the full install (everything in the OS partition) ammounts to 38gb

and it seems to GROW as I systematically delete the previous owners data (Text, e-mail, audio, video, etc).
'
As for "recovery" I didn't think that was actually in a seperate directory... it isn't on any XP system or was hat one of Vista's better ideas?
"
I'm prepared to continue to believe the D:\ "recovery" partition was intentionally created by whoever installed the replacement (WD-Blue) HDD in this notebook, as that data doesn't seem to move.... AND I can access and manipulate the files in that partition. (not usually the case on recovery setups)

As for the unlettered partition(s) I cannot access them, or more precisely I don't know HOW to do so...

The thing is I want to partition my drive in a specific way to isolate my data from the OS
(I like my media files in a seperate partition so they aren't all stirred together with the
maelstrom of fragmentation that boot drives usually become...

So what I've done on other notebooks is to have four partitions, a smallish one for the OS
(on my old Gateway P4 notebook there is a 20gb partition for the system, a 2gb partition for image files
(mostly jpegs) and my AV data is on another partition, which in the specific case of my
gateway is the balance of the 120gb drive or 90-some Gb.

And this odd partitioning soils my plans because they are all listed as "primary partitions" and it is my understanding that you are only allowed four "primary partitions" on a physical drive.

So how exactly do I "take control" of the "Hidden SVI folder"?

imkidd57

Try opening the file manager, then going to 'c:' -> 'Properties' -> 'and press the disk cleanup button. When it's done scanning and calculating - which may be rather a long time - click the 'More options' tab and there should be another button to clean the system restore. Click yes to all and you may get a surprise about the disk space free.

I agree with cholla not to mess with the winsxs folder..

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cholla

For this I would try deleting all the System Restore points except the last one .If you intend to use System Restore. I have System Restore disabled but I have a good backup software.
In my case Lenovo installed the recovery partition on my desktop. I didn't like their software for this so once I got the ATI software I deleted this partition & the Lenovo software for it.
I do still the Windows Backup software but I don't use it & as far as I know it doesn't have a partition.
I agree with you this seems like a partition created by the former owner without backup software. So I would just keep anything I wanted from it in a different partition & delete the rest. Then delete the recovery partition.
I really don't know. I would be interested in how you access it.I do have a suggestion of the following software (freeware). PTEDIT32.EXE
http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/tools.htm
It is a portable so you don't have to install it. It says to use in DOS but I didn't. It may show you the hidden partition type & be able to change it.
Once executed click on the type of the hidden partition & select "Set Type" .This will give you a list of the types. You don't have to set a different type at this time but it should tell you the type. At least it did for me.
I need to write my notes again on this so Maybe someone else could understand them.
First the proper name of this folder is "System Volume Information".
You can Unhide it with Folder Options but I bet you can't access the files in it.At this point you should be able to check its size. You will see it get smaller once you delete the System Restore points.It has other files as well. Even on my OS the folder shows zero but when I open it there are 3 files. One is of no importance desktop.ini 1kb , The second MountPointManagerRemoteDatabase 0 kb & third a tracking.log. The last two can't be deleted. I really haven't tried everything to delete these files I might be able to if I did. Windows doesn't even tell me I can't when I select delete .It acts like it will delete the files it just doesn't. Of course the 21kb is not really a problem.
When I first tried to access this folder I hadn'd worked with the Properties/Security of Vista & may have been able to do this easier.
These are the basics but do some reasearch.I don't remember if I had to install ICACLS. I know i did install xcacls. One I would not install is SubInAcl. I had problems with it.
Normal Users (run commands under an administrator accout/elevated prompt):
cd\ to C:\>
takeown /F "System Volume Information" /A /R /D Y (partly worked)
Icacls "System Volume Information" /grant:r Administrators:F /T /C /L
Delete everything in the SVI folder after this.If all worked well only the 3 I posted will be there.
Again Alan or anyone using the above commands do some extra reasearch on this.It has been about 3 years since I did this.
For example I don't remember if the quotes on "System Volume Information" are necessary.

This next part isn't necessary to take control of the SVI folder.I just wanted more control over Vista.
I actually ended up doing a complete system takeown & grant.The result of that was I had to call Microsoft & reactivate my Vista.
So PLEASE USE CAUTIOUSLY .

I want to second that again.Leave this folder alone.
I know I followed a method for moving the winsxs to a different drive.I had nothing but problems after doing that. In the end I had to use my ATI backup to put my OS back like it was.

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imkidd57

Re accessing unlettered partitions...

1. Start File Manager.
2. Right click on 'My Computer' icon, and choose 'Manage'.
3. Select 'Disk Management' and right-click on the unallocated partition in the window view. Choose 'Change drive letter & paths'.
4. Click 'Add...' and it will allow a choice of available drive letters from a drop-down box.
5. Choose and click 'OK'
6. A letter should be allocated and the partiton will appear as a drive in File Manager.

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AllanDeGroot

<y prefered method of system restore has always been another physical drive that is a norton ghost clone
and while keeping backups upto date costs me 40min a week per OS drive swapping in another copy
of your OS on another drive works instantly. (or atleast as fast as your computer can reboot after swapping the drive)

Why do I prefer swapping drives? simple, because each time I've had a system crash "system restore"
has FAILED to restore the system, so frankly if I could turn it off and save disc space I would.

And BTW "file manager"? drive properties were in "Device manager"
and running cleanup on both the OS and the "system restore" knocked the OS partition
down to a far less bloated 22.6Gb (it was 41gb when I started)

Doing the same thing to the D: "restore" partition knocked it from 9.4gb to 5.1gb

The Previous owner had a lot of games and their LARGE associated data files, but each time
I clicked an icon and it asked me for a disc I removed the program.

It seems that with each deleted game I created yet another restore point because in the midst of my
program by program deletion the used space went from 33gb to 41gb. (EEK!!!)

that was way out of control...

And the "Restore" partition IS a "backup", it's a clean (no applications)backup copy of the original OS installation and those files date to a month after the production date of the HDD (when the computer itself was about 9months old) I presume the original hitachi HDD failed and this 160gb WD is the replacement.

Anyway, I'm going to borrow a virgin drive from a friend, clone my drive to it and then start deleting
partitions off the clone to see what happens....

at some future date this 160gb drive will become the backup "System restore" point

Because I want a larger HDD, a 320gb Scorpio black with the Free fall detector sounds right...
and because I think a "Backup" on the same physical HDD is just about as useless as no backup at all.

while this discussion is far from dead my main issue is resolved, THANKS!

I'll let you know what I find after I clone.

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bean55

So turn it off, really simple : http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windo...windows-vista/

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mciahel

Hi,No. Dell factory partitioning.
Dell Diagnostics. Checks your hardware which is useful if you want to have something fixed while under warranty.
This is self-explanatory Normally, the Recovery Partition should be hidden also
Possibly Dell "Media Direct" partition. You should be able to start it using a certain key pressed. I strongly suggest to get the manual from Dell support website.
You don't need the Diagnostics Partition, since Dell Diagnostics also runs off a bootable CD or USB stick. The tool to create such a device is available on Dell Website.

The Media Direct Stuff might be of limited use also, so I would do this:
Create Recovery discs, then install your new drive and install from scratch using the Recovery Discs. The old HDD goes into your drawer.

Michael

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bean55

Some Dell notebook computers include a special Dell MediaDirect feature. MediaDirect enables you to watch DVD movies, slideshows, or listen to music without having to boot the complete XP operating system.

MediaDirect is installed in a special partition on the hard disk, but is hidden so you cannot see it when XP is booted normally. When the computer is off, pressing the MediaDirect button will boot the MediaDirect partition instead of XP.

Beware: HPA Problems When Upgrading Hard Disk

Some people will eventually want to upgrade their hard disk to a new disk with larger capacity. Users should be warned about a unique problem that may occur in certain circumstances. If you try to replace your hard disk with a larger disk, if you try to clone the contents of your original disk to the new disk, and if your original disk contains HPA-based MediaDirect, then you may discover your new disk's capacity becomes truncated to the size of the original disk.

For example, say you wish to replace your 60 GB disk with a new 120 GB disk. To avoid reinstalling everything, you decide to use something like Acronis True Image or Symantec Ghost to clone the contents of the 60 GB disk to the 120 GB disk. When you try to boot the new disk, however, it blue-screens or fails to boot, and a check of the BIOS settings shows the BIOS thinks your new disk is around the same size as the old disk! No amount of recloning, reformatting, repartitioning, or rejumpering will get the BIOS to recognize the full size of the disk

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Removal of new protections may not be available yet in the free version of DVDFab (HD Decrypter)

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cholla

Glad you got it sorted. Turning off System Restore as bean55 posted a how to link for would have done the same thing.
In my first post I suggested System Restore as the culprit. Since I also have found System Restore a non working peice of MS junk.I always disable it.
I don't clone to another drive like you do for backup but that seems like a foolproof method. I just do a no compression backup to an external HDD. This is a backup of the MBR & all data on the drive but not the unused space. ATI will do a sector by sector backup which does the empty space too. If I used it that way I would end up with a 256GB backup file. The no compression backup I use creates approx a 22 GB backup file the average size I operate my Vista OS with. That is with all the software I have installed.
That leaves plenty of room to work with a movie.
One thing you might want to do also is set " Volume Shadow Copy " in Services to "Manual ".
Then copy & paste this into an Administrator command prompt.
First cd\ it to a C:\> .
then paste this without the quotes:
" vssadmin resize shadowstorage /On=C: /For=C: /Maxsize=300MB "

If you want to just check the space used by Volume Shadow Copies paste this:
vssadmin List ShadowStorage

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AllanDeGroot

This is a two year old Dell notebook.

It doesn't have XP, it is factory Vista.

The HDD isn't original, the prooduction date on the HDD is more than a year more recent than the the one on the notebook, but I didn't do it

It DOES have Dell diagnostics AND ":Media Direct on it.

It is NOT under warrantee (I literally garbage picked this notebook.
it belonged to a temporary (rental) neighbor that moved away and
the property owner put the computer (along with other stuff)
on the curb.

I DO want a larger HDD and though I really wanted a WD 7200rpm "black" drive I have a 320gb WD blue still sealed in it's factory antistatic bag.

If I need to reinstall AN operating system...

Let me rephrase... I'm not married to the Vista Home basic it has on it,
and while I don't have the restore/reinstall discs I can pick up everything I need off ebay for $30 and get Win7 HomePremium in the bargain

I'll miss the Roxio DE and PowerDVD that is already on the notebook,
but I can replace those by buying the appropriate Dell re-install disc
on eBay for another $8-12(shipped)

media direct really doesn't do anything for me so long as the notebook will play a DVD
(turning the laptop into an overly expensive DVD player)

I'll just want the system install to leave me a large (unallocated) partition on the drive that I can use for my AV data.

Because my audio data doesn't get fragmented the way an OS drive does and having it on the OS partition makes defragging a long and annoying process every damned time...

In the bargain of reinstalling AN operating system to "migrate" to a larger drive I'll finally (once and for all!) get rid of all the user account references to the previous owner (the undeletable files for HIS social networking stuff and FINALLY get rid of the spanish language preferences (that keep "rubber-banding" back no matter how many times I turn them off).

System setup is tedious, but not particularly challenging.
I get to set up 2-3 computers a week and adding my own
to be setup doesn't add that much to my workload...

As for Vista itself? I've only had this notebook for a week and don't understand what the
big deal is about vista... it works, and while visual appearance is a bit different from the XP I'm used to and some things are located differently it doesn't seem all that different....

Is "the big deal" about Vista that people were trying to run it on computers that
weren't up to the task?

I know running XP on a 500MHz P-III can try the patience of a saint.... is Vista on a P4 more of the same?

Vista on a 2GHz Core2Duo seems fast enough...



AD

bean55

Ctrl F11 will get you to the recovery partition and put it back to factory stats.

__________________
My Signature:


I use Taiyo Yuden and Verbatim media mainly.
DVDFab : http://club.cdfreaks.com/f116/
http://www.cdfreaks.com/software/Cop...-Platinum.html

Removal of new protections may not be available yet in the free version of DVDFab (HD Decrypter)

I use ImgBurn as my main burning engine http://www.imgburn.com/index.php?act=download

Free Media Player VLC
http://www.videolan.org/vlc/

GO TEAM GO Fold for team 13505 http://folding.stanford.edu/

Help us save some lives by joining the Distributed Computing Teams : F@H or WGC or BOTH

Dartman

I'd do win 7 myself, it's a better version of vista and runs great on older machine with limited memory and resources.
I have 7 ultimate and am loving it after using XP forever, almost everything I used before or still have works fine and it has drivers built in for almost everything you'd have.
You can run the upgrade adviser before you do it and it will probably tell you if anything is not supported.

cholla

@AllanDeGroot ,Vista Home Premium & I work pretyy well together. I most likely will keep using it for a while.
I've spent a good deal of time tweaking . The end result has been Vista stopped growing ever larger & it doesn't ask me continually if I have permission to do things.As a matter of fact it seldom does.
I actually ran an OS with Windows ME with few of the problems most users of it had .The same thing it took a while to tweak to perform the way I wanted. In the end it still did not work as well as Windows 98 with some files & updates for Windows ME in it. The hybrid 98/ME still works well on the old IBM with a Pentium 3, 450 mhz CPU ,13.5 GB HDD & 768MB RAM. The same computer has Windows XP Pro on a seperate 80GB HDD & it also runs well. It can be slow on some functions but overall does what I want it to.

You might want to take a look at this about Vista:
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut00..._cost.html#cpu

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mciahel

[QUOTE=AllanDeGroot;2523385]
The HDD isn't original, the prooduction date on the HDD is more than a year more recent than the the one on the notebook, but I didn't do it[7quote]Perhaps it hass been replaced under warranty. Who knows.

So either see if you can create a set of recovery discs that allows you to reinstall the system on your new disc or get something else that fits your needs. Simply a matter of taste and personal preference.

https://smartsource.dell.com/Web/Wel...eb%2fmain.aspx
You need to create an account, if I remember correctly.

As for the Power DVD: I am not sure if that software came preinstalled or from other sources. Normally, the MPEG2 (from Cyberlink) decoder came with MediaDirect.

Michael

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AllanDeGroot

I bought the Dell Restore/reinstallation discs to put Win7-Home Premium on it as well as the discs with PowerDVD and Roxio-DE 10.3

I will NOT install media direct or Dell's diagnostic stuff, I prefer having an OS/setup/applications
that I can create backup clones to my heart's content.... or Master Card limit on new HDD's from Newegg.

It is my personal belief that if I can get a computer to "POST" I can fix it,
If I cannot get it to POST all I'm doing is the IT equivelent of performing
major cosmetic surgery on a corpse, because no diagnostic software ever created
will work on a computer that won't even boot to the DOS setup screen


Reinstalling an OS "clean" also lets me eliminate every trace f the previous owner
and his language preferences.

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