"Best" CD-R type for car audio

Hi, I am a complete newbie and I just have a few questions to help myself fix a problem and better understand some things. I want to make backup copies of all of my audio CDs so I can bring them around with me to play in my car stereo. My old stock stereo would not play CD-Rs about half of the time on tracks towards the end of albums, it would make a very loud annoying crackling sound. I thought it might have just been that the stock stereo wasn't very good, so I bought a new headunit and new speakers. My new system sounds much better, but last night much to my dismay I heard the crackling again on the last track of a 70-some minute long album.

I did some reading online and stumbled upon your "CD-R media: How to find the best ?" article, and read parts of the "What is the best CD-R" thread. The CD-Rs that I used to copy my albums were Memorex branded CMC Magnetics. CMC Magnetics seemed to take a lot of bashing on the forum, so I am guessing that it might be the problem. I found out that the manufacturer was CMC Magnetics through the program I use to copy the CDs (PlexTools), but it does not tell me the dye type. I haven't had any luck finding it with a few online programs I tried, either.

First of all, are CMC Magnetics disks Phthalocyanine based? I think they are, but I am not positive. I got the feeling that Taiyo Yuden disks were well-liked on the thread, and it is my understanding that they are Cyanine based. According to Wikipedia, they will not last as long as Phthalocyanine. Also somewhere along the line, I got the impression that Cyanine based disks may work better for car audio.

So, I should use Taiyo Yuden CD-Rs for my car audio, and I can continue to use the Memorex CD-Rs (and DVD+Rs for that matter) for archival purposes? Or do I have this whole thought process backwards? Should I just stick to Taiyo Yudens for everything if they are better? I take very good care of my CDs.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, I am looking for printable disks. Many of the brands/manufacturers discussed do not make printable disks.

Thanks in advance for any response,
-- Saocel

If the TYs work for you I'd stick with them. From what I can tell longetivity is as much a factor of burn quality if not more than dye composition. As for printables you can get TYs from www.rima.com

I haven't tried (or bought for that matter) the Taiyo Yudens yet, I want to find out a little more before I copy my CD collection again. I heard the crackling only last night. The problem is, it is going to be hard to find out whether or not the Taiyo Yuden disks work for me, since the problem only occurs very rarely. I wanted to try to find out here what would work best in theory.

-- Saocel

I had problems finding CD-R media to work in my car stereo that won't officially play CD-R. Eventually I found that Verbatim Pastels & Super AZO worked perfectly.

The Super AZO can be found as printables but not the Pastels (a TY dye).

Personally I stick labels on mine which doesn't seem to cause any problems.

Burning speed was a problem on older car players! the newer players don't seem to care!

I have a new Alpine player, which says that it's CD-R compatible. I burn everything at 48x and it seems to read it fine... Just that crackling that one night prompted me to look for better media.

I can't seem to find a Super AZO printable disk from any U.S. sites... Unless this is what you are talking about: http://www.compusa.com/products/prod...855&pfp=SEARCH

I did however find the Taiyo Yudens. These are the disks I am looking at so far: http://www.cddimensions.com/cd-r_med...dr80wpsb40.asp

It would be nice to find something that I could actually purchase at a retail store...

-- Saocel

Maybe this is helpfull, especially the "sweetspot" part.
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=161485

Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt my problem has anything to do with the speed that I burn at. If I was getting errors at burn time, wouldn't I get consistent errors during playback? I've only heard my problem once, and even with my old car stereo it only did it about 50% of the time.

I have a feeling it's the dye type, and I read somewhere that the darker the dye the easier it is read by car stereos... That just seems like a basic rule of thumb, not very scientific or anything. But it is my understanding that the Verbatims I linked to are dark blue.

So, is this correct?:
CMC Magnetics: Phthalocyanine
Verbatim: Azo
Taiyo Yuden: Cyanine

Maybe I'll go with those verbatims, and I can probably pick them up in a CompUSA... Anyone have any terrible experiences?

BTW, I'm using two Plextor PX-716A's to copy disks. One for source, one for destination.

-- Saocel

burners are very media and FW sensitive! Its too bad you don't have two different brands of drives, but definately try another media!

I have found that if I burn YUDEN000 T02 with Feurio! they always play in all my car cd players,boomboxes, walkmans etc.

The biggest problem is I cannot find out what works for me, since the problem has (so far) only occurred once. I suspect I'll hear it again sometime, especially when school starts and I am doing a lot of driving, so I am just trying to get information about what the best media would be, in theory.

-- Saocel

Something else you should consider is that CDRs will degrade quickly if exposed to direct sunlight. So for example if you leave your CDRs on your car seat they will eventually get damaged regardless of the manufacturer. I don't recall if excessive heat will also damage CDRs. Also, for the CDs you are having trouble with, have you checked for scratches or other visible flaws?

BTW, I only use Tayio Yuden CDRs and DVD-Rs and for additional safety I never burn them at max speed.

Hope this helps...

Ok, I copied a relatively long CD with both the Memorex media that I had been using, and some Maxell media that I picked up at the store. The Memorex is manufactured by CMC Magnetics, and the Maxell is manufactured by Ritek. Plextools tells me that the Memorex is "type 6" and the Maxell is "type 7", but I don't really know what that means. I believe it is both the type of dye, and both indicate a type of phthalocyanine.

I ran a C1/C2 test, and while I actually have no idea what either one means, I get no C2 errors with the Maxell, but get a whole lot with the Memorex. I remember reading somewhere that having no C2 errors is desired... So I believe I'm gonna go with Maxell media. I just hope that the printable version is manufactured the same way and performs the same way as the non-printable version I picked up and tested...

The C1/C2 test images are attached... Now if I could just replicate the problem in my car. I had the first problem somewhere near the end of the audio CD, where the red is (although it was not this particular CD).

Someone want to explain to me what this C1/C2 business is? And an explanation of type 6 and type 7 would be nice as well :-)

-- Saocel



The green is C1, the red is C2, and the blue is CU:

Suggest you read the Kprobe and CDspeed info here
http://club.cdfreaks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=96
for info on C-1 C2s. I think you are to concerned with Dye type. If it was such a big factor in error reporting, longetivity etc. do you think that TY, undoubtably the most respected manufacturerwould use something that has no life expectancy? Different dyes are influenced by different things, heat, humidity, and light. Also light at different spectrums have varying impact on different dyes.
If you only had the problem once did you consider trying using a more consistant burning media such as TY? Or that the problem was one defective disk in the spindle, or even a glich during the burning process? If you are really concerned about it you should not be using Riteks which have been shown here to not be the most consistant depending on media code and the same with CMC depending on which media code you have.

Alright, I replicated my problem with the Memorex disks. I just have to play the CD for a while and the last tracks will crackle. The Maxell disks didn't appear to do this, but when I did a C1/C2 test I got some C2 errors, albeit a much smaller amount. Is not having any C2 errors at all what I should be going for?

I think I'm ultimately gonna go with Taiyo Yudens, I've heard nothing but good things about them. I also take very good care of my disks. This is what I'll be getting for CD-Rs and DVD-Rs. Any comments on these disks, or this vendor?

http://www.supermediastore.com/taiyo...t-100pack.html
http://www.supermediastore.com/taiyo...-100-pack.html

-- Saocel

That and the lowest C-1s possible.

i had the same problem when i put my mp3's onto disc
i was useing the make mp3 cd feature in nero and they all had that crackling sound
so i just burnt them as data and no problems
i was using tdk metallic
and tdk gold
i find metallic to be better though

Hi Saocel,

Are you using the Varirec facility with your drive?
It can make a dif maybe.

Recording has some tricky aspects, when it comes to readers like car radios.
I had the first experience with drives than can't be consdered as modern by now, and I had no particular problems, and the few I had happened to be with good quality discs, the same brand and lot giving good and bad results.

This made me thing that a big part of the problem may be with the recording.

When Yamaha was still producing CD recorders, I bought the CRW-F1 that introduced a technology called HQ Audio Master Quality, said to improve quality and readibility of discs.
Coincidence or not, I didn't get any trouble with with newer car readers to play the discs recorded using it, even 99 minutes discs (73 minutes of music using HQ).

This was taken from Yamaha's site:

" What is Audio Master Quality Recording System?

The exclusive new Audio Master Quality Recording System, designed by Yamaha, guarantees the best possible audio or data recording quality on conventional 74 or 80-minute CD-R discs. When Audio Master Quality recording mode is enabled, the system widens the lands and the pits of the recording data, significantly reducing jitter created during CD-R recording, improving audio and music recording quality to a level rivaling professionally prepared music CDs.
_________________________________________________________________
Audio Master Quality Recording System Graphic Display

Sound waveform comparison

Music CD created using the Audio Master Quality Recording System
Clear wave pattern

Music CD created using conventional software
Wave pattern is blurred

A clearer wave pattern displays a higher sound quality and lack of background jitter
**** I can't get the images here, sorry *****************
________________________________________________________________

3 Advantages of the Audio Master Quality Recording System
Create audio and data recordings at the highest possible quality!

The fullest use of recording space combined with a nearly 30% reduction in background jitter (compared to our own previous models).
Reliable playback – even on your car audio system!

From a CD player’s point of view, the disc’s grooves are easily distinguished, easy to read and therefore easy to play.
Long-term readability!

Because the lands and pits are so wide, data is easily maintained and can be accurately read from disc for a much longer period of time."

Besides the new theories, this technology only does disc-at-once and at
1x, 4x or 8x maximum, no matter the quality of the disc.
So, it seems they believe speed can play a role.

I think Plextor's Varirec (using Plextools Professional) does something in the same direction.

I've got good results with brands I didn't check at all, in Dye terms.
Dye it is an important factor, but as someone else referred above its major role shall be in terms of disc's expected life.

Well, actually it is GigaRec (at less than 1x), not VariRec that resembles Yamaha's Audio Master technology (see also G@M3FR3@K's post here).

Regards,

ET

GigaRec allows you to get a larger capacity using a 700 MB disc.
Varirec it is aimed at recording quality, and uses a variable recording speed to get it.
This is my understanding of it, sorry if I'm wrong.

By the way
Extracting the audio files it is another important aspect to get a good recording, and Plextools it is supposed to give some help there.
You have another free software you can try, if you want music to come with the wright "tempo" - EAC - and this may also help the discs readibility.

I'm not able to give an explanation better than this (from the link above):

AudioMaster burns the disk at 0.85x, so Gigarec at 0.8x (or at 0.9x as supported by latest Plextor drives, currently only the PX-755) is the setting more similar to Yamaha's AMR.

Regards,

ET

Thanks Eltranquil,

I thought GigaRec was intended to extend the disc's capacity, but I must confess I only read the advertising and they were focusing on that.
In that sense you're 100% right.

Yo-

I get outstanding quality burns with my Ritek based CD-R's - burned at 16x - with EAC which you can download at:

www.exactaudiocopy.de

Happy burnin'

Mike