Audio CDRs vs. "Plain" CDRs?

Hi, I'm having fun with my new Lite-On burner that several of you here gave me some guidance on before I purchased and installed it, and I've got another newbie question. Is there any appreciable difference between just "plain" CDRs and CDRs that are listed as being specifically for music? The reason I ask is that I need to get some new blanks, and the local OfficeMax started a sale today for 50 Memorex blanks, the kind with the white labels you can write on, which, with the instant rebate and another mail-in rebate, would wind up being $4.99. The only thing, I'm looking at them primarily for burning music, and these are not the ones that say "for music." They don't say "data only," either, as I've seen some other blanks say. As I said, they're just "plain" old CDR blanks. Can anyone give me a little guidance or direction here? I've been using Memorex and TDK blanks since I started burning and have been quite pleased with them, haven't had a bit of problems with either both in the way they've burned and the way they've played afterward, but they've all been the ones specifically for audio. I've avoided the cheapo brands like the plague, while at the same time I haven't gotten into the Taiyo Yuden stuff that people here and elsewhere rate so highly, although down the road I intend to try those. Thanks!

Don't know specifically but there doesnt seem to be a difference. I used audio cdrs to burn data and vice-versa. No apparent difference in quality. In my opinion, its just a ploy by the makers of the cd's to make you buy two sets of cdr's and thus make more money for them.

Not quite right but close. Cdrs for audio are the only ones that can be used in stand alone recorders (like those attached to a stereo system).

The manufacturers pay some sort of royalty or license fee to the record cos. on sales of cdrs for audio, which they don't do for regular cdrs. Acordingly, they are usually more expensive, of inferior quality or both. Also some people encounter problems when trying to use them to burn with a normal computer cdrw. In short, don't use them.

So called cdrs for data are just normal cdrs and are fine for burning audio on a normal computer cdrw.

Laser optimization on a standalone audio CD player/recorder is different from that of a computer CD-ROM. Some standalone audio CD players, especially the older ones, cannot read CD-RWs and have problems reading computer generated CDRs with audio on it because of this. Most standalone audio CD manufacturers will warn against using "data" CDRs to record on the standalone machines and I've seen countless cases where the warnings go unheeded and rusulted in "phantom defects". The user returns the machine as defective and the new replacement exhibit the same symptons.
Philamber's advice is good. Use audio CDRs for standalone audio recorders and regular "data" CDRs for computers as you are not guaranteed any consistency with mixing them.

So Audio Cdr's are the same CDR's only calibrated for older stand-alone drives? Just making sure.

Actually, the only difference between music CD-R and data CD-R is that there is a special code in the music CD-R and can only be recognized by the stand-alone CD recorders. You can certainly use music CD-Rs in your computer CD recorder, but not vice versa. Stand-alone CD recorders can only record the music using music CD-Rs, and from the original CD's digital input. But professional CD recorders have none of these restrictions.

Audio CDRs are optimized for standalone audio CD Recorders. They can be used on computer systems with some limitations. Most noticably is the lower recording speeds.

Actually my Sony RCDW1 will record on data CDs with either analog or digital inputs. But it is inconsistent and results will vary even with the same media. It's hit or miss.

data cds support better error correction!
audio cds support less error correction!
because data cds need more error correction, if you get a little scratch on an audio cd its a click or a pop sound but usually still plays.but if you fet a scrath on a data cd your game wont boot!!
so its ok to put audio files on data cds.i wouldn't put data files on an audio cd!!
2ndsign

audio cd's have error correction? ill be damned......

I'll be damned too. Sounds like nonsense to me as is the statement elsewhere that they're optimised for stand alone audio recording.

My understanding is that they just have a different atip and that a stand alone audio recorder won't generally work unless it detects that atip type (i.e. won't work with an ordinary cdr).

data sectors have 2048 bytes per sector
audio tracks have 2300 bytes per sector (or track)
each sector audio or data is 2352 bytes per sector
the rest is used for error correction
audio cds dont really need error correction data files do!
ie. 2048(304bytes for error correction) for data
atip make no difference playing in cdplayer (music cd player dont read atip only burners)
does sound like a bunch of nonsense but its true

But a stand alone audio recorder is a burner and so can read atip. Not only that, they require an audio cdr or they don't work.

i didnt say burner or recorder i said player.ide cdrom drive dont read it either!only burners or recorders!so your statement is true

True....when you insert an "ordinairy"empty cd-rom in a stand alone copier,you get the message"wrong disc",when the atip is read...
You can modify your standalone with a little chip for using cdroms to record audio....

Would it not be considered optimization to alter data to to suit a specific category of hardware?

No, in this case, it's the writers that have been altered, not for the purposes of optimisation, but so that they only accept a specific type of cdr on which the manufacturers/distributors have to pay a royalty to the record companies (which, of course, isn't the case for ordinary cdrs).

The whole process has nothing whatever to do with producing superior quality audio recording.

Trying to understand you here.......

From your previous statement I understood that the ATIP on the media is different. The standalone recorder looks for a different ATIP. What I'm picking up here, correct me if my assumptions are incorrect, is that the Audio CD media is different as required by the standalone recorders for whatever reasons. But rewriting the instructions (ATIP) to accomodate the requirements of the standalone players, as you put it DIFFERENT ATIP, does not constitute optimization. How else would the discs be optimized since the manufacturing process is virtually the same? Other than the ATIP what unique technology would the Audio CD manufacturer have applied to these discs?

AFAIK, none. Save for the different atip, they are the same as an ordinary cdr. However, because of the requirement to pay royalties on sales, commercial reality means that they will be more expensive than ordinary cdrs, of inferior quality, or both.

'Audio CDs' have an SCMS bit (can't copy the copy - usually) and return royalties to artists. Other than that, there is no difference. 2ndsign was full of crap again.

This issue is discussed at length in the Audio Forum for those interested.

True.....just an analog copy of the copy is possible with your stand-alone audiocdcopier......But you can also circomvent this by using your computer with some "special" soundcards:The Terratec EWX 24/96 has the option to filter the copyprotection bit out of the SPDIF data stream when making a digital copy from a hifi cdplayer.....very interesting

HEHEHE...

Yup. professional equipment that runs 100 Ohm cable always had the facility to turn off the bit. Stuff that ran at consumer 75 Ohm couldn't do it until recently. All PCs can copy a copy, bit or no bit

Yep.....But lately,a lot of them can't even PLAY the latest discs anymore,due to heavy protection....... .....

guys let me put it a better way.i not certain and i may be full of crap again but let say ok everyone here knows atip give info about the disc.like someone said on this thread it may have a different type of atip more suitable for audio cd lets leave it at that .im not trying to attract flames just hope i make friends here.hell if i get anymore ill probably change my name to the crapmeister

We are here to share correct knowledge. It appears that you are here to share incorrect knowledge... why are you stating things when you obviously don't know what you are talking about?

The disc application code of an audio-cdr differs from a 'normal cdr'. The manufacturing process is completely the same (besides that the disc application code is set to audio in the wobble), so with respect to the dye, an standalone audio burner will burn the audio-cdr the same way as a pc-based burner will do.

Look here if you want more info.