Why did Ultra Speed CD-RW and DVD±RW never become popular?

*kg_evilboy* · 01-04-2012

Just used a handful of Verbatim 24x (Ultra Speed) CD-RW the other day. Now I'm really wondering why these have died out nowadays in favour of the slower 10x (or 12x) CD-RW (also 8x DVD+RW is a rare sight, 12x DVD-RAM never left Asia at all, DVD+RW DL development was quietly cancelled). There seems to be a curse on the RW media types.

I personally notice quite a speed difference when I compare 10x with 24x or even 32x recording and I like Ultra Speed media a lot.

Was it the higher cost, the fact that these discs arrived too late to compete with the cheap and fast -R media, or the fact that the installed base of supporting drives initially was too small?

*DrageMester* · 01-04-2012

Maybe the write-once media got so inexpensive, that there's little reason to use RW media at all?

**pepst** · 01-04-2012

- flash memories and external HDDs became much, much more cheaper than they used to be
- ultraspeed CD-RW have worse FW support than 4-12x rated ones. Many modern DVD RW and BD RE drives cannot reliably burn them at all.
- as Roar said, there is almost no reason to use RW media when write-once media cost next to nothing

**Arachne** · 02-04-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrageMester

Maybe the write-once media got so inexpensive, that there's little reason to use RW media at all?

Good point. Not so devastating when you fluff up a disc, as it was way back when the CD-Rs cost an arm an a leg!

Personally, I'm still quite fond of my 24x and 32x CD-RW media as well, more so than the 10x-12x stuff. All my drives seem to handle them just fine (usually burn at the disc's rated speed, unless it's audio at 16x).

EDIT: But I'll tell you one place where CD-RW media still comes in handy for me - we have a CD player in the car that doesn't take USB sticks or whatever. Purr-fect!

*kg_evilboy* · 02-04-2012

Good to know – this kind of explains why RW usage has been declining (although I still think it's sad fast media died before slow media).

I personally still burn RW from time to time, usually stuff like bootable Linux CDs that are quite handy at times when a computer is acting up. Also good for sneakernets and passing data to others (losing a RW is not as much a loss as losing a USB flash drive is).

*_chef_* · 02-04-2012

They just became obsolete by new formats (and higher capacities) appearing on the fast growing market.

*AllanDeGroot* · 03-04-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by _chef_

They just became obsolete by new formats (and higher capacities) appearing on the fast growing market.

Amen!

"RW" media is SLOW and additionally it was more expensive than "R"
media.

Couple that with the fact that as "R" media increased in speed and dropped in price "RW" media did neither to a significant degree until much later...

And why don't I say if I'm talking about CD or DVD? because I'm talking about both the same economic pattern happened twice and the manufacturers didn't learn a damned thing.

another nail in the coffin of RW media was newer media types with ever greater capacity.

Like You Tube killed MTV, Writable DVD's Killled writable CD's (both R and RW)

THEN inexpensive flash media killed both.

And it happened again with dirt cheap hard drives.

Hey, before the Thailand floods last summer I could buy hard drives for less $/GB than I could buy DVD+r discs.

yeah on sale you could get DVD+/-R discs in spindle packs cheaper
but trying to write 470gb of "backup" onto a HDD takes around 8% as long as to do the same backup to a stack of DVD+R's

So it wasn't only capacity and cost but speed.... RW media lost on all three factors.

AD

lucky9 · 09-05-2012

I still keep 24x CD-RW media around for the old sneakernet (I have a few DVD+RW also, though they're not high speed they do offer high capacity). I bought a pack of the CD-RWs and have used them over and over for years. Though I admit that USB drives are cheap enough that they've just about replaced disks for my sneakernet.

AnthonyBourque · 29-10-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucky9

I still keep 24x CD-RW media around for the old sneakernet (I have a few DVD+RW also, though they're not high speed they do offer high capacity). I bought a pack of the CD-RWs and have used them over and over for years. Though I admit that USB drives are cheap enough that they've just about replaced disks for my sneakernet.

Here are some Verbatim 24x cd-rw:http://www.ebay.com/itm/180973546816...84.m1555.l2649

Memorex still makes 24x cd-rw, but Verbatim discontinued 24x Ultra Speed & 32x Ultra Speed+ CD-RW
Verbatim (95206) 32x Ultra Speed Plus CD-RW:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CD-R-W-80-mi...item2ec24c57a3

8x DVD+RW:
http://www.meritline.com/dvd-rw-8x-4...---c-7551.aspx

AnthonyBourque · 30-10-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnthonyBourque

Here are some Verbatim 24x cd-rw:http://www.ebay.com/itm/180973546816...84.m1555.l2649

Memorex still makes 24x cd-rw, but Verbatim discontinued 24x Ultra Speed & 32x Ultra Speed+ CD-RW
Verbatim (95206) 32x Ultra Speed Plus CD-RW:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CD-R-W-80-mi...item2ec24c57a3

8x DVD+RW:
http://www.meritline.com/dvd-rw-8x-4...---c-7551.aspx

I do have five Verbatim 8x dvd+rw disc (but one of them will not burn properly without reading/writing errors).
I also have two Imation 8x DVD+RW, ten Verbatim 6x dvd-rw, one Verbatim 4x & 2x dvd-rw, and five Verbatim 5x DVD-RAM.
For rewritable DVDs, I like Verbatim 6x dvd-rw the best.
Both Verbatim 6x dvd-rw & 8x dvd+rw can have 96-98% quality score.
The 2x and 4x speed dvd rw media by Verbatim is not as good quality as their 6x DVD -RW & 8x DVD+RW.
6x dvd-rw and 8x dvd+rw are only good for burning in the computer, not for dvd recorders.
I noticed that Maxell and Panasonic both discontinued 5x dvd-ram so Verbatim is the only one that caries 5x dvd-ram in USA.
I do have six verbatim 32x cd-rw & 87 verbatim 24x cd-rw discs and they they are nice and fast, so I do not care for 4x and and 12x cd-rw.
32x cd-rw will may only burn up to 16x or no to burn at all in laptop computers.

*_chef_* · 31-10-2012

No 12x DVD-RAM media?

AnthonyBourque · 31-10-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by _chef_

No 12x DVD-RAM media?

Here is Maxell 12x DVD-RAM
http://www.audiocubes2.com/product_i...roducts_id/475
http://www.amazon.co.jp/maxell-DVD-R.../dp/B000EZL424

AnthonyBourque · 01-11-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by _chef_

No 12x DVD-RAM media?

It looks like maxell discontinued (DRM47D.1P) 12x DVD-RAM. But the problem is, is that dvd-ram is not compatible with most dvd players and some dvd writers, so they are the worst DVDs for compatibility. 8x DVD+RW discs are not hard to find, I recommend using Verbatim 8x DVD+RW or 6x DVD-RW for high speed rewritable DVDs.

**Liggy** · 01-11-2012

On my drives the Ricoh 8x DVD+RW performed better than Verbatim with regards to longevity. But I guess these discs are very hard to find now.

*_chef_* · 03-11-2012

DVD-RAM 12x is for Asia (.jp exactly) only, that is the info behind it.

Nothing about the production really.

AnthonyBourque · 06-11-2012

Maxell 12x DVD-RAM has been discontinued in Japan. Here are the links of online stores in Japan:
http://translate.google.com/translat...719%2F&act=url
http://translate.google.com/translat...02580500719%2F
http://translate.google.com/translat...3Fp%3D11955%20
http://translate.google.com/translat...g%3Dpending-22

Maxell's current products for DVD-RAM in Japan. 12x DVD-RAM is not listed. :http://translate.google.com/translat...m%2Findex.html

Verbatim 5x DVD-RAM are discontinued in europe, but still available in USA & Australia.
These Verbatim 5x DVD-RAM discs are Made in Japan.
Here is more information from Nero DiscSpeed:
Nero DiscSpeed: Disc Info
Basic Information
Disc type: : DVD-RAM
Manufacturer: : Matsushita Electric Industrial CO.,LTD.

MID : M01J5006

Write speeds: : 2 X - 3 X - 5 X
Blank Capacity : 4.27 GB
: 4368 MB
: 4580771840 bytes
Extended Information
Copyright protection : CPRM

**Arachne** · 10-11-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by _chef_

No 12x DVD-RAM media?

Got a couple tucked away. I daren't use them though, how sad is that?

*_chef_* · 10-11-2012

It's sad, beloved one.

But these days we count in higher capacities.

**Arachne** · 10-11-2012

Hehe **hugs Maxell 12x DVD-RAM**

It's not the size of the media, it's what you do with it...

*_chef_* · 10-11-2012

Huh....

I cannot comment on that in public.

*DrageMester* · 11-11-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arachne

It's not the size of the media, it's what you do with it...

Well... if the media is too small, you'll need to use it many many times to satisfy your needs.

**Arachne** · 11-11-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by _chef_

Huh....

I cannot comment on that in public.

LOL!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrageMester

Well... if the media is too small, you'll need to use it many many times to satisfy your needs.

Very true

*_chef_* · 11-11-2012

To clear things up, frisbeeing is a great method of using them these days.

AnthonyBourque · 07-12-2012

Here are some JVC 6x DVD-RW discs for sale on ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/JVC-6x-DVD-R...item2a26d0356b
They are CPRM compatible.
Made in Japan.
JVC no longer makes 4x DVD-RW, and their 6x DVD-RW was discontinued a few years ago!
They are CPRM compatible.

*_chef_* · 07-12-2012

"May not ship to Germany - Read item description or contact seller for details." WTF?!

01-04-2012	#1
kg_evilboy CD Freaks Boy Toy Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 5,751	Why did Ultra Speed CD-RW and DVD±RW never become popular? Just used a handful of Verbatim 24x (Ultra Speed) CD-RW the other day. Now I'm really wondering why these have died out nowadays in favour of the slower 10x (or 12x) CD-RW (also 8x DVD+RW is a rare sight, 12x DVD-RAM never left Asia at all, DVD+RW DL development was quietly cancelled). There seems to be a curse on the RW media types. I personally notice quite a speed difference when I compare 10x with 24x or even 32x recording and I like Ultra Speed media a lot. Was it the higher cost, the fact that these discs arrived too late to compete with the cheap and fast -R media, or the fact that the installed base of supporting drives initially was too small? __________________ I'm a 太陽誘電の記録メディア fanboy. Stick to it and you most likely won't have any trouble (with degradation or compatibility and write errors). Preferred media codes: CD-R 97m24s01f; CD-RW 97m34s24f; DVD+R YUDEN000 T03; DVD-R TYG03; DVD+RW MKM A03; DVD-RW MKM 01RW6X; DVD+R DL MKM 003; DVD-R DL I avoid that format Facebook page: Say NO to overpriced books in Germany My collection: Plextor PX-716UF 1.09 (TLA #0202), Optiarc AD-7200A 1.06, Samsung SE-S224Q TS02, Plextor PX-712UF 1.04 (TLA #0104), Plextor PX-708UF2 1.02 (TLA #0102), Optiarc AD-7200A 1.06, Plextor PX-716UF 1.07 (TLA #0307), Lite-On LH-18A1H HL05, Philips JackRabbit JR32RWDVK P1.3, Philips JackRabbit JR24CDRW 1.01, LG GH22NP20 2.00, Matshita UJ-898 HC10, Lite-On LH-20A1H LL0D, Plextor PX-716UF 1.11 (TLA #0204), LG GSA-H22N 1.00, Plextor PX-716A 1.09 (TLA #0309) + Plextor PX-716A 1.09 (TLA #0309), BenQ DW1655 BCDB, Samsung TS-L632B TM31, Lite-On LTR-16101B TS0W Lite-On SHM-165P6SU MS0P (mechanical failure), Plextor PX-708UF2 1.?? (TLA #0102) (DVD optical part died), LG GSA-H10N @ H12N UJ12 (broken tray), BenQ DW1650 BCIC (sold), Lite-On SHW-16H5S @ 1635S YS0Z (lost in a fire), LG GCE-8527B 1.04 (optical part died), Samsung TS-L632H SC04 (sold), Canon Pixma iP4300 (printer head broken)

01-04-2012	#2
DrageMester Retired Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Honah Lee Posts: 19,885	Re: Why did Ultra Speed CD-RW and DVD±RW never become popular? Maybe the write-once media got so inexpensive, that there's little reason to use RW media at all? __________________ Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

01-04-2012	#3
pepst Moderator Join Date: May 2006 Location: Slovakia Posts: 4,963	Re: Why did Ultra Speed CD-RW and DVD±RW never become popular? - flash memories and external HDDs became much, much more cheaper than they used to be - ultraspeed CD-RW have worse FW support than 4-12x rated ones. Many modern DVD RW and BD RE drives cannot reliably burn them at all. - as Roar said, there is almost no reason to use RW media when write-once media cost next to nothing __________________ Prince Princo Pepst the First http://www.last.fm/user/pepst/ I am looking for rare and old 1-4x media (MIDs: VIVASTAR, OMP 4KG001, REC001, AUVISTAR M01, SHT001, VDSPMSAB 004-001, POSGxx, VANGUARD, OCTOPLUS, 3AM0201, SMMR01, Yi Jhan 001, SKYMEDIA R01, Prodisc's and CMC Magnetics' DVD-RAMs, Beall's and Prodisc's 4,85 GB DVDs, any Authoring DVD-Rs, any 63 min and old CD-Rs ) and any "Made in Europe" DVDRs. Send me a PM if you could help me.[ By Grabthar's hammer, by the sons of Warvan, you shall be avenged!

02-04-2012	#5
kg_evilboy CD Freaks Boy Toy Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 5,751	Re: Why did Ultra Speed CD-RW and DVD±RW never become popular? Good to know – this kind of explains why RW usage has been declining (although I still think it's sad fast media died before slow media). I personally still burn RW from time to time, usually stuff like bootable Linux CDs that are quite handy at times when a computer is acting up. Also good for sneakernets and passing data to others (losing a RW is not as much a loss as losing a USB flash drive is). __________________ I'm a 太陽誘電の記録メディア fanboy. Stick to it and you most likely won't have any trouble (with degradation or compatibility and write errors). Preferred media codes: CD-R 97m24s01f; CD-RW 97m34s24f; DVD+R YUDEN000 T03; DVD-R TYG03; DVD+RW MKM A03; DVD-RW MKM 01RW6X; DVD+R DL MKM 003; DVD-R DL I avoid that format Facebook page: Say NO to overpriced books in Germany My collection: Plextor PX-716UF 1.09 (TLA #0202), Optiarc AD-7200A 1.06, Samsung SE-S224Q TS02, Plextor PX-712UF 1.04 (TLA #0104), Plextor PX-708UF2 1.02 (TLA #0102), Optiarc AD-7200A 1.06, Plextor PX-716UF 1.07 (TLA #0307), Lite-On LH-18A1H HL05, Philips JackRabbit JR32RWDVK P1.3, Philips JackRabbit JR24CDRW 1.01, LG GH22NP20 2.00, Matshita UJ-898 HC10, Lite-On LH-20A1H LL0D, Plextor PX-716UF 1.11 (TLA #0204), LG GSA-H22N 1.00, Plextor PX-716A 1.09 (TLA #0309) + Plextor PX-716A 1.09 (TLA #0309), BenQ DW1655 BCDB, Samsung TS-L632B TM31, Lite-On LTR-16101B TS0W Lite-On SHM-165P6SU MS0P (mechanical failure), Plextor PX-708UF2 1.?? (TLA #0102) (DVD optical part died), LG GSA-H10N @ H12N UJ12 (broken tray), BenQ DW1650 BCIC (sold), Lite-On SHW-16H5S @ 1635S YS0Z (lost in a fire), LG GCE-8527B 1.04 (optical part died), Samsung TS-L632H SC04 (sold), Canon Pixma iP4300 (printer head broken)

02-04-2012	#6
_chef_ MyCE Resident Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: @FX labs .de ...playing LLAMATRON :-] Posts: 30,613	Re: Why did Ultra Speed CD-RW and DVD±RW never become popular? They just became obsolete by new formats (and higher capacities) appearing on the fast growing market. __________________ Enable DMA with micrAp$0ft Enable DMA free at your will busTRACE => Upper/Lower Filters Util DevCon *HOW TO ... Delete the Upper & Lower Filters!* If you expect help then please use the powerful SEARCH. Try ThreatFire I am looking for DVD-R for Authoring & HD DVD media. Please PM me if you can help me. Vamos Tribbles! V-a-m-o-s!!

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09-05-2012	#8
lucky9 MyCE Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Tulsa, OK USA Posts: 126	Re: Why did Ultra Speed CD-RW and DVD±RW never become popular? I still keep 24x CD-RW media around for the old sneakernet (I have a few DVD+RW also, though they're not high speed they do offer high capacity). I bought a pack of the CD-RWs and have used them over and over for years. Though I admit that USB drives are cheap enough that they've just about replaced disks for my sneakernet. __________________ If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters.

31-10-2012	#11
_chef_ MyCE Resident Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: @FX labs .de ...playing LLAMATRON :-] Posts: 30,613	No 12x DVD-RAM media? __________________ Enable DMA with micrAp$0ft Enable DMA free at your will busTRACE => Upper/Lower Filters Util DevCon *HOW TO ... Delete the Upper & Lower Filters!* If you expect help then please use the powerful SEARCH. Try ThreatFire I am looking for DVD-R for Authoring & HD DVD media. Please PM me if you can help me. Vamos Tribbles! V-a-m-o-s!!

01-11-2012	#14
Liggy Senior Administrator Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Monkey Island Posts: 8,212	On my drives the Ricoh 8x DVD+RW performed better than Verbatim with regards to longevity. But I guess these discs are very hard to find now. __________________ You need to flash or dump your NEC DVD burner firmwares on your Mac, Windows, DOS or Linux machine? Just try Binflash. Visit Liggy's and Dee's Optiarc and NEC firmware and tools page for all kind of information about NEC and Optiarc drives. Unrequested PM about drive problems will not be answered!

03-11-2012	#15
_chef_ MyCE Resident Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: @FX labs .de ...playing LLAMATRON :-] Posts: 30,613	DVD-RAM 12x is for Asia (.jp exactly) only, that is the info behind it. Nothing about the production really. __________________ Enable DMA with micrAp$0ft Enable DMA free at your will busTRACE => Upper/Lower Filters Util DevCon *HOW TO ... Delete the Upper & Lower Filters!* If you expect help then please use the powerful SEARCH. Try ThreatFire I am looking for DVD-R for Authoring & HD DVD media. Please PM me if you can help me. Vamos Tribbles! V-a-m-o-s!!

06-11-2012	#16
AnthonyBourque MyCE Rookie Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 40	Maxell 12x DVD-RAM has been discontinued in Japan. Here are the links of online stores in Japan: http://translate.google.com/translat...719%2F&act=url http://translate.google.com/translat...02580500719%2F http://translate.google.com/translat...3Fp%3D11955%20 http://translate.google.com/translat...g%3Dpending-22 Maxell's current products for DVD-RAM in Japan. 12x DVD-RAM is not listed. :http://translate.google.com/translat...m%2Findex.html Verbatim 5x DVD-RAM are discontinued in europe, but still available in USA & Australia. These Verbatim 5x DVD-RAM discs are Made in Japan. Here is more information from Nero DiscSpeed: Nero DiscSpeed: Disc Info Basic Information Disc type: : DVD-RAM Manufacturer: : Matsushita Electric Industrial CO.,LTD. MID : M01J5006 Write speeds: : 2 X - 3 X - 5 X Blank Capacity : 4.27 GB : 4368 MB : 4580771840 bytes Extended Information Copyright protection : CPRM

10-11-2012	#18
_chef_ MyCE Resident Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: @FX labs .de ...playing LLAMATRON :-] Posts: 30,613	It's sad, beloved one. But these days we count in higher capacities. __________________ Enable DMA with micrAp$0ft Enable DMA free at your will busTRACE => Upper/Lower Filters Util DevCon *HOW TO ... Delete the Upper & Lower Filters!* If you expect help then please use the powerful SEARCH. Try ThreatFire I am looking for DVD-R for Authoring & HD DVD media. Please PM me if you can help me. Vamos Tribbles! V-a-m-o-s!!

10-11-2012	#19
Arachne Senior Administrator & Reviewer Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tabby Towers, West of England Posts: 33,774	Hehe hugs Maxell 12x DVD-RAM It's not the size of the media, it's what you do with it... __________________ Current drives: Samsung SE-S084C (TS02) + Samsung SH-S223F (SB03 RPC1 + other goodies) + TSST (Samsung) TS-H653F (DW10) + Samsung SH-S203N (SB02 RPC1 + other goodies) + Optiarc AD-5170S (1.12) + Litey LH-20A1H (LL0D) + Samsung SH-S182D (SB06 RPC1) x2 + LG E10N (JE07) + BenQ DW1650 (BCDC) + BenQ DW1640@164B (BEFB) + LG 4167B (DL13 TDB) + NEC ND-4551A (1.Z2) + LG GCE-8520B (1.00) + LiteOn SOHR-5239S (2S0B) Retired: LiteOn LDW-851@SOHW-832 + LiteOn SOHW-1693S + LG 4163B + Pioneer DVR-115D My Review PCs How to delete your upper and lower filters : How to check/enable DMA by Womble Click here to join MyCE.com and be part of our friendly community! Smile...people will wonder what you're up to

11-11-2012	#23
_chef_ MyCE Resident Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: @FX labs .de ...playing LLAMATRON :-] Posts: 30,613	To clear things up, frisbeeing is a great method of using them these days. __________________ Enable DMA with micrAp$0ft Enable DMA free at your will busTRACE => Upper/Lower Filters Util DevCon *HOW TO ... Delete the Upper & Lower Filters!* If you expect help then please use the powerful SEARCH. Try ThreatFire I am looking for DVD-R for Authoring & HD DVD media. Please PM me if you can help me. Vamos Tribbles! V-a-m-o-s!!

07-12-2012	#24
AnthonyBourque MyCE Rookie Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 40	Here are some JVC 6x DVD-RW discs for sale on ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/JVC-6x-DVD-R...item2a26d0356b They are CPRM compatible. Made in Japan. JVC no longer makes 4x DVD-RW, and their 6x DVD-RW was discontinued a few years ago! They are CPRM compatible.

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