TY CD-R vs. 5(6) writers ;)

Blank Media Discuss, TY CD-R vs. 5(6) writers ;) at Consumables forum; Hi, I just spent a couple of 52x rated Verbatim Pastell CD-R (TY) for some performance tests of my drives Liteon SOHR-5239V 2$0C Benq DW-1650 BCDC LG GSA-4163B A106 Samsung TSST SH-W163A Sony DW-G120A MYR4 Liteon SHM-165P6S MV96 (Crossflashed Sony) with quality media. Write speed for each drive was set

Posted: 02-06-2006

mciahel (Senior Moderator): Posts: 13,392

Hi,

I just spent a couple of 52x rated Verbatim Pastell CD-R (TY) for some performance tests of my drives

Liteon SOHR-5239V 2$0C
Benq DW-1650 BCDC
LG GSA-4163B A106
Samsung TSST SH-W163A
Sony DW-G120A MYR4
Liteon SHM-165P6S MV96 (Crossflashed Sony)

with quality media.
Write speed for each drive was set to 40x to improve comparability:
The LG is limited to max 40x, Sony's default is also 40x max (Yeah, I know, there is the "turbo"-button

), and the Samsung drive supports this media only at 40x.
Quality scans were performed with CD/DVD Speed using the Benq and with Kprobe2 using the Liteon CDRW drive. Drive speed was set to "Maximum" for any scan.

Here we go:

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Last edited by mciahel; 02-06-2006 at 21:12. Reason: Forgot Litey CDRW :-)

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Posted: 02-06-2006

mciahel (Senior Moderator): Posts: 13,392

Liteon SOHR-5239V 2$0C:

Attached Images

	LITE-ON_CD-RW_SOHR-5239V_40x-write.png (30.4 KB, 387 views)
	LITE-ON_CD-RW_SOHR-5239V_CDDVD-Speed.png (34.8 KB, 387 views)
	LITE-ON_CD-RW_SOHR-5239V_kprobe.PNG (9.5 KB, 386 views)

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Posted: 02-06-2006

mciahel (Senior Moderator): Posts: 13,392

Next one. Benq DW-1650 BCDC:

Attached Images

	Benq_40x-write.png (34.3 KB, 394 views)
	Benq_DW-1650-BCDC_CDDVD-Speed.png (35.9 KB, 387 views)
	Benq_DW-1650-BCDC_kprobe.PNG (9.6 KB, 387 views)

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Posted: 02-06-2006

mciahel (Senior Moderator): Posts: 13,392

Now my LG GSA-4163B A106:

Attached Images

	LG-40x-write.png (31.9 KB, 384 views)
	LG-GSA-4163B_CDDVD-Speed.png (33.5 KB, 384 views)
	LG-GSA-4163B_kprobe.PNG (9.8 KB, 383 views)

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Posted: 02-06-2006

mciahel (Senior Moderator): Posts: 13,392

Samsung TSST SH-W163A.
If there weren't that spike at the beginning, then this would be a great burn

Attached Images

	SH-W163A_40x-write.png (30.1 KB, 373 views)
	SH-W163A_CDDVD-Speed.png (33.8 KB, 373 views)
	SH-W163A_CDDVD-kprobe.PNG (9.1 KB, 372 views)

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Posted: 02-06-2006

mciahel (Senior Moderator): Posts: 13,392

Sony DW-G120A MYR4
I consider this a coaster

Attached Images

	Sony-DWG120A-40x-write.png (31.9 KB, 368 views)
	Sony-DWG120A-CDDVD-Speed.png (33.9 KB, 367 views)
	Sony-DWG120A-kprobe.PNG (9.6 KB, 368 views)

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Posted: 02-06-2006

mciahel (Senior Moderator): Posts: 13,392

And now the Sony again - disguised as Liteon SHM-165P6S MV96

no comment

Attached Images

	LITE-ON_DVDRW_SHM-165P6S_MV96_40x-write.png (32.5 KB, 370 views)
	LITE-ON_DVDRW_SHM-165P6S_MV96_CDDVD-Speed.png (34.3 KB, 365 views)
	LITE-ON_DVDRW_SHM-165P6S_MV96_kprobe.PNG (10.1 KB, 366 views)

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Posted: 02-06-2006

Arachne (Senior Moderator & Reviewer): Posts: 29,609

Whoa...check out the jitter on the last two

/me hugs her two 1650s

Thanks for taking the time to do those, Michael - very useful to me as I have 2 of those burner models

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Retired: LiteOn LDW-851@SOHW-832 + LiteOn SOHW-1693S + LG 4163B + Pioneer DVR-115D
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Posted: 02-06-2006

mciahel (Senior Moderator): Posts: 13,392

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arachne

Whoa...check out the jitter on the last two

It's not a trick, it's a Sony

Quote:

/me hugs her two 1650s

And what about your LG 4163?

Quote:

Thanks for taking the time to do those, Michael - very useful to me as I have 2 of those burner models

You're welcome, and hopefully, this might be useful for others, too

Just recsanning the Sony@Liteon burn, as I couldn't believe that C2 at the end. Stay tuned...

Michael

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Posted: 02-06-2006

Arachne (Senior Moderator & Reviewer): Posts: 29,609

Look forward to that rescan! That C2 is easy to miss, I didn't spot it first time round

And of course, I love my 4163 too - best burner I ever owned (I've even taken it out of this machine to prolong its life a little)

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Posted: 02-06-2006

mciahel (Senior Moderator): Posts: 13,392

Here you are:
My Liteon CD Writer detects C2 errors, my Benq doesn't. But astonishing enough, the scanning results have improved.

Attached Images

	LITE-ON_DVDRW_SHM-165P6S_MV96_CDDVD-Speed_2.png (35.3 KB, 349 views)
	LITE-ON_DVDRW_SHM-165P6S_MV96_CDDVD-Speed_rescan2.png (31.0 KB, 348 views)
	LITE-ON_DVDRW_SHM-165P6S_MV96_kprobe_rescan.PNG (10.4 KB, 349 views)

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Posted: 02-06-2006

DrageMester (Retired Moderator): Posts: 17,611

Thanks for those scans, mciahel!

The BenQ burned the disc at 48x instead of the selected 40x speed.
Both Arachne and myself have seen and reported this CDSpeed bug, which doesn't happen with all drives.

I wouldn't consider the Sony burn a coaster - there's not even a single C2!

It's not an impressive result, but the BenQ is being much more picky when scanning such discs than other scanning drives, if your scans and the results I got here are representative.

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Posted: 02-06-2006

mciahel (Senior Moderator): Posts: 13,392

Hi,

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrageMester

Thanks for those scans, mciahel!

You're welcome

Quote:

The BenQ burned the disc at 48x instead of the selected 40x speed.

Oooops! Well, then the results gained with the Benq count more in that comparision

Quote:

I wouldn't consider the Sony burn a coaster - there's not even a single C2!

You may be right in this case. But the Sony is capable to do so: http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=181368

Quote:

It's not an impressive result, but the BenQ is being much more picky when scanning such discs than other scanning drives, if your scans and the results I got are representative.

At least the shape is similar. Maybe this is typical for that drive. We need more DWG120A/SHM165P6S (and maybe related drives) users, that could provide additional scans.

But why does the CDRW drive see something completely different, even C2 errors, the Benq does not see? Is this all VooDoo?

Michael

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Posted: 02-06-2006

DrageMester (Retired Moderator): Posts: 17,611

Quote:

Originally Posted by mciahel

But why does the CDRW drive see something completely different, even C2 errors, the Benq does not see? Is this all VooDoo?

Yes it's voodoo, but we are the witch doctors!

I think it's likely, although I'm not sure, that the BenQ DW16xx drives report only E32 errors as C2. E32 is the worst kind of C2 errors, and it means that C2 error correction has failed (except for some drives that can correct E32 in some cases).

C2 errors consist of E12, E22 and E32.
Drives that can scan for C2 errors report this differently, but any accurate scan should include E22.
AFAIK the E12 errors are usually not included when reporting C2.

Plextor drives report C1/C2 this way:
C1 = E11 + E21 + E31
(E12 ignored)
C2 = E22
CU = E32

My guess is that the BenQ reports it this way, but I'm not sure:
C1 = E11 + E21 + E31
(E12 and E22 ignored)
C2 = E32

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Posted: 02-06-2006

Arachne (Senior Moderator & Reviewer): Posts: 29,609

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrageMester

Yes it's voodoo, but we are the witch doctors!

Drage - please, please, I beg you - don't use the silver type, I'm short sighted enough as it is

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Posted: 02-06-2006

DrageMester (Retired Moderator): Posts: 17,611

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arachne

Drage - please, please, I beg you - don't use the silver type, I'm short sighted enough as it is

OK. I use it for writing stuff that is beside the point, but that I want to include for completeness, so I don't have to hear people bitch about me not being accurate.

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Posted: 02-06-2006

Arachne (Senior Moderator & Reviewer): Posts: 29,609

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrageMester

OK. I use it for writing stuff that is beside the point, but that I want to include for completeness, so I don't have to hear people bitch about me not being accurate.

That's understandable - I was thinking you were doing it cause it's funky

What about using smaller type?

Just kidding about the small type thing - now I understand why you use silver, I can live with it

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Posted: 03-06-2006

mciahel (Senior Moderator): Posts: 13,392

So, I flashed the Sony to retail firmware MYR3:
THIS is what I expect from TY discs

Attached Images

	SONY____DVD_RW_DW-G120A_MYR3_40x-write.png (32.2 KB, 325 views)
	SONY____DVD_RW_DW-G120A_MYR3_40x-CDDVD-Speed.png (34.4 KB, 322 views)
	SONY____DVD_RW_DW-G120A_MYR3_40x-kprobe.png (9.7 KB, 328 views)

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Posted: 03-06-2006

mciahel (Senior Moderator): Posts: 13,392

Hi,

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrageMester

Yes it's voodoo, but we are the witch doctors!

Quote:

I think it's likely, although I'm not sure, that the BenQ DW16xx drives report only E32 errors as C2. E32 is the worst kind of C2 errors, and it means that C2 error correction has failed

Thank you for that explanation. This also means, that the Liteon CDRW apparently counts more "error types" as C2 than the Benq?

Greets,
Michael

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Posted: 03-06-2006

alexanderino (MyCE Resident): Posts: 569

Quote:

Originally Posted by mciahel

You're welcome, and hopefully, this might be useful for others, too

That would be me. Thank you!

Hmmm, you've fired up my curiosity, so I will do it justice by burning 4 ISOs on to some old 32x Taiyo Yudens using my currently plugged-in drives, which are:

Lite-On SOHR-5239V 2$0D
Lite-On SHM-165P6S MV96
LG GSA-4166B 1.02
BenQ DW1650 BCHC

Stay tuned ...

Bloody hell! Clicking the list button erased what I had previously typed

[using Opera 8.54].

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Posted: 03-06-2006

Arachne (Senior Moderator & Reviewer): Posts: 29,609

More drives! Nice one, cheers, Alexanderino

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Posted: 03-06-2006

alexanderino (MyCE Resident): Posts: 569

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arachne

More drives! Nice one, cheers, Alexanderino

Any time

It's a shame that very few seem interested in CD scanning these days. Damn kids and their DVDs ...

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Posted: 03-06-2006

Arachne (Senior Moderator & Reviewer): Posts: 29,609

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexanderino

Any time

It's a shame that very few seem interested in CD scanning these days. Damn kids and their DVDs ...

Hehe, even my mum scans her backed up CDs - and she's 60!

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Posted: 03-06-2006

alexanderino (MyCE Resident): Posts: 569

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arachne

Hehe, even my mum scans her backed up CDs - and she's 60!

Now ther's a mother I would love to meet

Here we go. First, we have the Lite-On SOHR-5239V, having burned a 697 MB ISO to a 32x Taiyo Yuden I got many (4?) years ago. Everything done at 32x.

CD-DVD stats:

Code:

General Information
 Drive: BENQ    DVD DD DW1650   
 Firmware: BCHC
 Disc: Data CD (Taiyo Yuden)
 Selected speed: 32 X
C1 errors
 Maximum: 15
 Average: 0.56
 Total: 2677
C2 errors
 Maximum: 0
 Average: 0.00
 Total: 0
Jitter
 Maximum: 15.0 %
 Average: 10.14 %
Scanning Statistics
 Elapsed time: 3:55
 Number of samples: 4895
 Average scanning interval: 1.05 sec
 Glitches removed: 0

KProbe stats:

Code:

Date                     : 2006-06-03 08:13:13
Model                    : 0-0-2-0 H:LITE-ON CD-RW SOHR-5239V 2$0D
Disc                     : CDR (A+) , 972401:795973 [Taiyo Yuden Company Limited]
Speed                    : 32x
Scanned range            : 0:2:0 (0) - 79:25:71 (573B0h)
C1 Max                   : 5
C1 Average               : 0.05
C1 Total                 : 243
C2 Max                   : 0
C2 Average               : 0.00
C2 Total                 : 0

Kindly ignore the error spike in the KProbe scan, it's not C2 and I am flummoxed as to why they sporadically appear.

Attached Images

	LITE-ON_CD-RW_SOHR-5239V_2$0D_03-June-2006_08_01_97m24s01f.png (62.2 KB, 307 views)
	BENQ____DVD_DD_DW1650_BCHC_03-June-2006_08_07_97m24s01f.png (66.7 KB, 308 views)
	200606030814-taiyo yuden-32x.PNG (18.5 KB, 309 views)

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Posted: 03-06-2006

TimC (CDFreaks Resident): Posts: 7,499

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arachne

Hehe, even my mum scans her backed up CDs - and she's 60!

I scan everything I burn , except RWs & I'm the same age as your mum.

@micheal

Very useful & informative thread you've started here, especially as I use Verb Pastels exclusively for my Audio CDs.

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