Sticky paper labels on DVD+/-R discs: beware!

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Blank Media Discuss, Sticky paper labels on DVD+/-R discs: beware! at Consumables forum; Many threads on this board have reported readability problems, and/or apparent media degradation, that finally could be traced down to the use of paper labels on DVDR discs. In the most extreme cases discs became totally unreadable and, quite often, removing the labels fully restored the readability of the discs.

View Poll Results: What's you experience with paper labels?

I use or have used paper labels on my DVDR discs and I have (had) no problems 84 26.67%
I use or have used paper labels on my DVDR discs and I experience(d) problems 12 3.81%
I stopped using paper labels on my DVDR discs because I experienced problems 71 22.54%
I have never used paper labels on my DVDR discs 148 46.98%
Voters: 315. You may not vote on this poll
Old Posted: 23-03-2006
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Wizzu (CDFreaks Resident)
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Many threads on this board have reported readability problems, and/or apparent media degradation, that finally could be traced down to the use of paper labels on DVDR discs.
In the most extreme cases discs became totally unreadable and, quite often, removing the labels fully restored the readability of the discs.

Many possible explanations have been voiced on this board.
Here is an "offfical" explanation from Memorex (excerpt from Memorex, Reference guide for optical media)
Paper labels are not recommended for DVD discs.
The expansion and contraction of moisture in the paper and the accumulation of heat in a DVD drive can alter the flatness of a disc enough that it falls out of the tilt specification and may not be able to be read.
Bottom line: unless you find a recommended source of labels causing no problems, it's strongly recommended NOT to use paper labels on your DVDR discs. Of course, if you already did so and have no problem, don't panic. But if these discs start to have reading issues in the future, you'll know what to try next

***
Here are some threads on this board, where the source of the problem could be traced down to the use of paper labels.
If you find more threads, let me know, I'll add them.
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=172040
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=155991
Feel free to post here your own experiences, good or bad, with paper labels. .
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Old Posted: 23-03-2006
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Also, if you found a reliable, safe source for sticky labels (plastic, special paper..), and you have some scans to back this up, don't hesitate..
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Old Posted: 23-03-2006
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jtardiou (CD Freaks Member)
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There are no good experiences with paper labels.
Old Posted: 23-03-2006
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Good work, Franck. I skimmed Memorex's optical media guide, and it is surprisingly comprehensive!
Old Posted: 23-03-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [buck]
I skimmed Memorex's optical media guide, and it is surprisingly comprehensive!
Yep, found this two weeks ago, good doc.
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Old Posted: 23-03-2006
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RWP (CDFreaks Resident)
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I tried Neato brand paper labels on music CDR's burned about four years ago and discovered the songs on the outer disc wouldn't play after only six months! Was able to copy to new discs (used the same media lot), didn't use a label, and the discs still play fine today. Never even considered using paper labels for DVDR's...
Old Posted: 23-03-2006
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Looks like I will never try the paper labels on my precious DVDR's. Thanks for the info.
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NEC 3550A in an external Bytecc 320U2F (PL-3507 Chipset) enclosure using USB 2.0

My Current Media Inventory:

Sony DVD-R 1-8x TYG02: 42
Sony DVD+R 1-8x YUDENT02:96
Verbatim DVD-R 1-16x MCC03RG: 48
Memorex DVD+R 1-16x RicohJPNR03: 7
TDK DVD-R 1-16x TTH02: 5
Total = 198

Memo to self: "Read and You Shall Find The Answer"
Old Posted: 23-03-2006
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i did buy a xpress it kit and used it a few times but after reading a few threads on here i stopped using it, only after buying a 100 sheets of stickers
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Old Posted: 23-03-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjproc
only after buying a 100 sheets of stickers
You can always sell it on eBay, I'm sure somebody would buy it
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NEC 3550A in an external Bytecc 320U2F (PL-3507 Chipset) enclosure using USB 2.0

My Current Media Inventory:

Sony DVD-R 1-8x TYG02: 42
Sony DVD+R 1-8x YUDENT02:96
Verbatim DVD-R 1-16x MCC03RG: 48
Memorex DVD+R 1-16x RicohJPNR03: 7
TDK DVD-R 1-16x TTH02: 5
Total = 198

Memo to self: "Read and You Shall Find The Answer"
Old Posted: 23-03-2006
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greg42 (CDFreaks Resident)
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Interesting thread - I can relate to it because I used labels in the past - CDStomper Pro labels - well centered - I have not had any issues with CD-Rs, obviously, however with DVD is another story. What I cannot understand is why the hell are these things still sold ? I figure now it is more costly for me to buy labels than buy a printable CD/DVD.

For DVD I have not had any issues at first, but months later would notice reading problems / CRC errors, etc...... To rule out disc degradation I have removed many of those labels from my maxell DVD+Rs, cleaned them well and magic, they were fully readable again with similar readings from when I burned them. I personally would never recommend labels, period.
Old Posted: 23-03-2006
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JayC30 (CDFreaks Resident)
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Well it seems I am going to go against popular opinion I have and sometimes still do (when I can't get printables) still use paper labels when making family films into DVDs to send off to the rest of the family. I have had no problem with them playing the discs in my DVD player and in others yet they do cause scanning problems.

I would like to see some scans done of discs with paper labels at 1x the speed at which the DVD player actually plays them and see what the results are, when we scan we always do it at 4x or 8x. I may actually do this when I next have a family movie to convert.
Old Posted: 23-03-2006
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Fortunately these aren't my originals

One with label, unreadable and one without, readable. Only a few i tested with labels were readable - but also pretty crappy media from the beginning. These below are 2 years+ of age, Prodye branded from nierle.de
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Old Posted: 23-03-2006
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JayC30 (CDFreaks Resident)
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What is the scan like for the unreadable one at 1x?

41.8x speed!! Wonder how that happened.
Old Posted: 23-03-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjproc
i did buy a xpress it kit and used it a few times but after reading a few threads on here i stopped using it, only after buying a 100 sheets of stickers
That's what I used to use on my CDRs, til I lost the data on several - never again!

Never used any labels on my DVDRs, though - see above, I learned my lesson with CDRs!
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Old Posted: 23-03-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drcy
You can always sell it on eBay, I'm sure somebody would buy it
it only cost about £5, so i don't think i'll bother

cheers anyway
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Old Posted: 23-03-2006
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What makes the difference between CD-R's with paper labels and DVD-R's with paper labels ??
Old Posted: 23-03-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by undine
What makes the difference between CD-R's with paper labels and DVD-R's with paper labels ??
Welcome to the forum

DVDRs and CDRs, despite apparences, are rather different. The "size" of the pits and lands and of the tracks are much smaller in DVDR. So the whole reading (and burning) process is far more picky, and any small misalignement can dramatically impact the quality of the signals.

That's why, among other things, the tilt (flatness) of the DVDR media is paramount, and any warping, would it be slight, degrades the performance of DVDR, when the same amount of warping in CDRs would be handled without trouble during burning/reading.

Labels are not the only source of dangerous warping BTW: unproper storing leads to all kinds of trouble as well.

Hope this helps.
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Old Posted: 23-03-2006
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Francksoy , Thanks for your informative answer. Best Wishes.
Old Posted: 23-03-2006
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I constantly have to deal with advertisers and graphic designers sending me CDs and DVDs with their custom label applied (generally just their logo). About 50% of the time I'm forced to use ISOBuster to extract the data. And this is for a disc used twice (once to burn, once for me to get the data). I can never figure out why they go to the trouble.
Old Posted: 23-03-2006
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Like several others here, I learned my lesson by applying paper labels to some CD-R media which later became unreadable or almost unreadable. Other CD-R media of the same exact type, but without paper labels, were perfectly readable however.

After that experience I were never tempted to ad paper labels to my DVD media!
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Old Posted: 23-03-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by undine
Francksoy , Thanks for your informative answer. Best Wishes.
No problem, best wishes too
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Old Posted: 23-03-2006
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I have NEVER applied labels to my discs. Too many instances across the various forums that I visit, that say it isn't a wise move. IMHO only an idiot would risk functionality for cosmetic reasons. If you are really that desperate for fancy labels just spend a little bit more and buy Inkjet printable discs as the results are FAR better.
Old Posted: 23-03-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesterrace
IMHO only an idiot would risk functionality for cosmetic reasons.
Most of those who use paper labels do this out of ignorance, so I don't think this comment is really relevant.
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Old Posted: 23-03-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayC30
What is the scan like for the unreadable one at 1x?

41.8x speed!! Wonder how that happened.
I'll make one for you.

Reason my my use of labels was just to make the ugly disc look more attractive. I didn't know a lot about bad discs and label damage back then - thought all would last forever. Only i knew my almost new LiteOn 811 was trash from the beginning
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Scanner/ripper/reader - LiteOn 1653SX (CS0T) (USB) - LiteOn SHM-165P6SX (MS0P) (USB) - LiteOn SOHC 5235K
Shelved LG 5163 (A104) - LiteOn SOHR-5239V (2$0E) - 1x Samsung 203B (SB01) - NEC/Optiarc 7170S (1.82) - Benq 1640 (BSRB) - NEC 3500 & NEC 3520 - Pioneer 106D & 107D - LiteOn 411 & 811 and some..
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Old Posted: 23-03-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francksoy
DVDRs and CDRs, despite apparences, are rather different. The "size" of the pits and lands and of the tracks are much smaller in DVDR. So the whole reading (and burning) process is far more picky, and any small misalignement can dramatically impact the quality of the signals.
Also unlike DVDs, CDs have the dye, in general, directly below the printed name on the disc, and so in effect you are putting the label onto the dye layer, and peeling may damage the dye and label can lift off. Apparently there is also something about the chemicals from the glue used on the sticky labels leaching into the dye layer. The dye layer on a DVD is sandwhiched between two plastic discs which are bonded together, thus the label does not come into contact with the dye.
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