Did you know: Slow write speeds + modern drives + modern media = no good
| Blank Media Discuss, Slow write speeds + modern drives + modern media = no good at Consumables forum; Preface Some of the most frequently asked questions around here are things like: "How do I write [this high speed media] at [an incredibly low speed]?" or "I want to write [this high speed media] at [this low speed]; will it give me better quality?" Questions like these usually stem |
| Preface Some of the most frequently asked questions around here are things like:
or
Questions like these usually stem from the old urban myth that slower write speeds automatically equal better compatibility with game consoles and older drives/players. The truth is: writing with extremely slow speeds on high speed media is a VERY bad idea in almost every case![if you like to spare yourself some reading, you may just want to skip to the summary below, otherwise, please continue on.] ![]() Explanation Explanations, more in-depth
Summary
![]() Exceptions For some notable exceptions see post #5 in this thread.This FAQ response made possible by the collective group known as CD Freaks. Copyright (c)2008 Club CD Freaks. Any redistribution of this FAQ should be promptly credited to Club CD Freaks. So on and do forth, blah blah blah. Last edited by DrageMester; 28-06-2008 at 22:56. Reason: Added note about exceptions |
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| Wow, great post, enjoyed reading it. I generally tell people to use half the Maximum rated speed of the blank disc, but that is for Dvds, (so for 16X media it would be 8X, then if that works give 12X a shot & check how it turns out). The CD burner is my wife, who was very happily burning @ Maximum until I did a few scans with CD Speed for her, she now burns her CDs @16X.
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| Great post. Deserving of a sticky IMO, if Drage agrees
__________________ Current drives: Samsung SH-S223F (SB03 RPC1 + other goodies) + TSST (Samsung) TS-H653F (D200) + Samsung SH-S203N (SB02 RPC1 + other goodies) + Optiarc AD-5170S (1.12) + Litey LH-20A1H (LL0D) + Samsung SH-S182D (SB06 RPC1) x2 + LG E10N (JE07) + BenQ DW1650 (BCDC) + BenQ DW1640@164B (BEFB) + LG 4167B (DL13 TDB) + NEC ND-4551A (1.Z2) + LG GCE-8520B (1.00) + LiteOn SOHR-5239S (2S0B) Retired: LiteOn LDW-851@SOHW-832 + LiteOn SOHW-1693S + LG 4163B + Pioneer DVR-115D My Review PCs How to delete your upper and lower filters : How to check/enable DMA by Womble Click here to join cdfreaks.com and be part of our friendly community! ![]() The CDFreaks Distributed Computing Teams need YOU! Join the Team(s) and help save some lives! Read more here |
| Thanks for the comprehensive explanation, Albert. I would like to add that there are exceptions to these rules for specific combinations of media, and DVD burners, and if your own testing shows a certain combination of media, DVD burner, firmware and burn speed is optimal, then it's better to trust your own results than general guidelines.
__________________ Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. |
| As specific examples of exceptions, I have found that some 16x DVD media burn best at 6x on some recent Pioneer DVD burners, because the initial part of 8x (and faster) burns has elevated PIE/PIF/Jitter: MCC 03RG20 in Pioneer DVR-112 series SONY 16D1 in Pioneer DVR-112 series TYG03 in Pioneer DVR-112 series TYG03 in Pioneer DVR-111 series It's quite possible that drive variations could mean that 6x is not optimal for some other people's Pioneer drives, since I have seen big variations in how 8x P-CAV and 8x Z-CLV work in different drives of the same series. Another general exception is laptop DVD burners which cannot currently write faster than 8x, and sometimes 8x is a bit too fast for some media on some laptop DVD burners. Yet another general exception is DVD and HDD/DVD recorders, which generally can either record in real-time (which is 1x or slower) or transfer from HDD to DVD with "high-speed copying" which could be slower than 8x, e.g. 6x on some recent Pioneer and Sony HDD/DVD recorders
__________________ Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. Last edited by DrageMester; 28-06-2008 at 23:18. Reason: typos |
| Quote:
__________________ My signature links: Go ahead, click something, you know you want to. DvdFab HD Decrypter to movie only backup, Posts #67 to #74, but please also read, Posts #77 & #78. Single layer burning with ImgBurn, VIDEO_TS. Dual layer burning with ImgBurn, VIDEO_TS. Dual layer burning with ImgBurn, ISO/MDS. Direct ImgBurn Guides. |
| Excellent Albert. ![]() I have spent an hour playing with the format (testing from different viewpoints). It is concise & extremely well laid out. @ DrageMester, Suggest your excepetions be added to the OP (assuming Albert doesn't mind). Or at least a reference/link to post #5. As once a sticky. Many will read only as far as the first post. No further. |
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__________________ If you haven't already, take the time to register at CD Freaks [we welcome new users!]. ||| If you need a refresher of the rules, check them out here. ||| If you need a bit of assistance in posting, the general forum usage FAQ can be found here. ||| If you're new, the Newbie forum is a great place to start out, if you do nothing but introduce yourself. ||| Friendly reminder: Try to avoid sending PMs for technical help; they may get ignored. Besides, that's what the forums are for! ![]() Resident college CD Freak, jack of many trades, math major, computer lover, and general geek. Recently nicknamed "Modbert" ![]() |
| Congrats Albert. I know alot of time went into that post. I enjoyed reading it and will refer members to it. ![]()
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| Quote:
__________________ Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. |
| Quote:
![]() [and thanks, Drage, for the edit. ]
__________________ If you haven't already, take the time to register at CD Freaks [we welcome new users!]. ||| If you need a refresher of the rules, check them out here. ||| If you need a bit of assistance in posting, the general forum usage FAQ can be found here. ||| If you're new, the Newbie forum is a great place to start out, if you do nothing but introduce yourself. ||| Friendly reminder: Try to avoid sending PMs for technical help; they may get ignored. Besides, that's what the forums are for! ![]() Resident college CD Freak, jack of many trades, math major, computer lover, and general geek. Recently nicknamed "Modbert" ![]() |
| Ive found with the 215 most of my media which is high speed likes 8-12 also doesnt like being over speeded in this drive , but very nice albert ![]() Ill supply scans
__________________ Main pc : - Lite on 20a4p, optiarc 7200s ![]() , Pio 215DSecond pc /file server: - Plextor 760sa*2, LG GGW-H20L*2, Samsung 203b, Benq DW1650 + 3 tb of storage ![]() Media:- Verbatim 8/16x +/- , Panasonic 16x -R TY, Maxell T01/TYG01, Cmc Unbranded AE1/AM3 , Infiniti 8/16x -R MIT, Verbatim pastel CD-R TY ,Plextor TY +/- R, Verbatim 2.4x Dual layers , Various other stuff i get my mitts on ![]() Arachne = Big meowing showoff ![]() Mucho love to shel <3 |
| Thanks, Marc. ![]() I'll start it off until you can get your scans up. Media of choice: MCC 03RG20 as Verbatim 16x DVD-R This is working to SUPPORT the initial post. Pay attention to the 2x burn. [Speeds greyed out do not have a previous test available. 1x was not offered]. The tests will be with different firmwares/drives, which I couldn't avoid. Posts with no TRT had flawless TRTs, except for 20x.
__________________ If you haven't already, take the time to register at CD Freaks [we welcome new users!]. ||| If you need a refresher of the rules, check them out here. ||| If you need a bit of assistance in posting, the general forum usage FAQ can be found here. ||| If you're new, the Newbie forum is a great place to start out, if you do nothing but introduce yourself. ||| Friendly reminder: Try to avoid sending PMs for technical help; they may get ignored. Besides, that's what the forums are for! ![]() Resident college CD Freak, jack of many trades, math major, computer lover, and general geek. Recently nicknamed "Modbert" ![]() Last edited by Albert; 29-06-2008 at 00:57. |
| well ive done a 6x pioneer burn a 16x pioneer burn u can blatently tell the difference i know the batch isnt the best but their all 8x scans will provide matching trts shortly
__________________ Main pc : - Lite on 20a4p, optiarc 7200s ![]() , Pio 215DSecond pc /file server: - Plextor 760sa*2, LG GGW-H20L*2, Samsung 203b, Benq DW1650 + 3 tb of storage ![]() Media:- Verbatim 8/16x +/- , Panasonic 16x -R TY, Maxell T01/TYG01, Cmc Unbranded AE1/AM3 , Infiniti 8/16x -R MIT, Verbatim pastel CD-R TY ,Plextor TY +/- R, Verbatim 2.4x Dual layers , Various other stuff i get my mitts on ![]() Arachne = Big meowing showoff ![]() Mucho love to shel <3 |
| Media of choice: CMC MAG M01 as Philips 16x DVD+R This is a slight EXCEPTION to the original post. This is poor media. 1 speed lower than rated didn't work so well. However, half the rated speed did. ![]()
__________________ If you haven't already, take the time to register at CD Freaks [we welcome new users!]. ||| If you need a refresher of the rules, check them out here. ||| If you need a bit of assistance in posting, the general forum usage FAQ can be found here. ||| If you're new, the Newbie forum is a great place to start out, if you do nothing but introduce yourself. ||| Friendly reminder: Try to avoid sending PMs for technical help; they may get ignored. Besides, that's what the forums are for! ![]() Resident college CD Freak, jack of many trades, math major, computer lover, and general geek. Recently nicknamed "Modbert" ![]() |
| Media of choice: TTG02, as TDK 8x DVD-R [made by CMC Magnetics] This is to support the first post. The TRTs provided may be flawed because of an unusual amount of heat and too little time between burning, scanning, and running TRTs, so I'm going on the basis of the scans.
__________________ If you haven't already, take the time to register at CD Freaks [we welcome new users!]. ||| If you need a refresher of the rules, check them out here. ||| If you need a bit of assistance in posting, the general forum usage FAQ can be found here. ||| If you're new, the Newbie forum is a great place to start out, if you do nothing but introduce yourself. ||| Friendly reminder: Try to avoid sending PMs for technical help; they may get ignored. Besides, that's what the forums are for! ![]() Resident college CD Freak, jack of many trades, math major, computer lover, and general geek. Recently nicknamed "Modbert" ![]() |
| What about laptop drives? They are able to burn only at 8x speed whereby this speed occurs only close to disc edge. Burn process starts at 3-4x speed. If burning on 16x rated media, will the burning quality be affected since the drive cannot burn faster? |
| In my limited view of notebook drives, this doesn't always apply. Notebook drives, as we understand, have a maximum write speed of 8x for DVD media. Usually, they offer 8x, 6x, 4x, and 2x as all the write speeds. So the rule here for using a good slim burner is to still not write at the slowest speed offered, but also not write at the highest speed offered. You will want to write at half the max speed or just over half the max speed offered. 4x and 6x can do much better than 8x and 2x with a lot of discs with a good slim burner. That simplification, though, is best held true with newer Optiarc, LG, and some Samsung slim drives. Most any other drive will, incidentally, do the best writing at the slowest speed available, because they just can't match the quality of half-height [desktop] drives. In this case, there is little else you can do but manually test for yourself to see how well a drive writes among write speeds. If you encounter a slim drive that can't write well at any speed at other than 2x, though, I would personally invest in an external half-height burner.
__________________ If you haven't already, take the time to register at CD Freaks [we welcome new users!]. ||| If you need a refresher of the rules, check them out here. ||| If you need a bit of assistance in posting, the general forum usage FAQ can be found here. ||| If you're new, the Newbie forum is a great place to start out, if you do nothing but introduce yourself. ||| Friendly reminder: Try to avoid sending PMs for technical help; they may get ignored. Besides, that's what the forums are for! ![]() Resident college CD Freak, jack of many trades, math major, computer lover, and general geek. Recently nicknamed "Modbert" ![]() |
nice work Albert. ![]() and thanks to DrageMester for pointing me here. |
| My writing speed has been mostly x6, sometimes x4, on Verbatim MCC004 (x16) with NEC 3520, 3550 and 7200. The result is good. It's possible that higher write speeds would be even better, but even so quality is good. (Writing faster doesn't work well on that old computer.) |
| gr8 post, i had same problem with Verbatim being burned at 8x and 12x, at most time drive did something like recalibration at 12% of the burn and few disk failed than, as soon i started doing 16x burns there were no recalibrations after the burning start and if media is bad drive just lower speed onfly with no recalibration |
| Welcome to the forum! ![]() 8x and 12x aren't incredibly low speeds, but I'm glad you found a speed that works for you (16x) ...in fact, in Albert's explanation part, the "incredibly slow speeds" talked about seem to be mainly 4x or under. ![]() Me personally, most of my discs are burned at 8x or sometimes 12x, and I don't get problems. Again, it's what work for each person.
__________________ Current drives: Samsung SH-S223F (SB03 RPC1 + other goodies) + TSST (Samsung) TS-H653F (D200) + Samsung SH-S203N (SB02 RPC1 + other goodies) + Optiarc AD-5170S (1.12) + Litey LH-20A1H (LL0D) + Samsung SH-S182D (SB06 RPC1) x2 + LG E10N (JE07) + BenQ DW1650 (BCDC) + BenQ DW1640@164B (BEFB) + LG 4167B (DL13 TDB) + NEC ND-4551A (1.Z2) + LG GCE-8520B (1.00) + LiteOn SOHR-5239S (2S0B) Retired: LiteOn LDW-851@SOHW-832 + LiteOn SOHW-1693S + LG 4163B + Pioneer DVR-115D My Review PCs How to delete your upper and lower filters : How to check/enable DMA by Womble Click here to join cdfreaks.com and be part of our friendly community! ![]() The CDFreaks Distributed Computing Teams need YOU! Join the Team(s) and help save some lives! Read more here |
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