More bad Fuji media

*rdgrimes* · 27-02-2003

Recently i posted some crappy TY-made Fuji, which was limited to one batch. Last week I was in a store and picked up some on-sale Fuji.
It's the colored type media, marked 40x, has a spiral swoosh of colors on the back in blue, orange, green, etc. Out of the 8 or so that I've used, 2 failed during the burn ("write error"). Here are 2, burned at 40x and 32x. The ATIP on these discs is identical to the newest 48x TY media.

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Burned at 32x

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This is not good. It's interesting to note that the 2 failures and these 2 tests were all on discs that had blue color on the back. I also tested one with orange color, and it was flawless. Two with dark green were much better, but still had errors late in the burn.
do you suppose the color on the back is the problem? You can clearly see the swoosh when you hold them up to light and look from the burn-side.

joelmon · 28-02-2003

I just bought some of these colored Fuji's too..I don't have a tester to see any errors, however cdr's sounded ok...

Have you had any of these kind of results from the silver top 48x Fuji's??

The "swoosh" type, I only bought a 30 pack, gonna stick with the silver top..Hopefully they're a better "run" of TY......

*AZImmortal* · 28-02-2003

have u tested all of the 5 colors and/or multiple spindles rdgrimes? i bought a few packs of these colored ones (rated at 48x) a few weeks ago cuz they were free after rebate and haven't had a chance to test them out yet.

*rdgrimes* · 28-02-2003

Quote:

have u tested all of the 5 colors and/or multiple spindles rdgrimes?

Had 2 spindles, haven't tested all the colors yet. I'm hard-pressed to believe that the color makes a difference, but it sure seems to. These aren't good for anything but testing, so I'll burn some more when I get time.

scottmso · 01-03-2003

I've had no problems with a 50-spindle of the color 40x TY Fujifilm bought a few months ago but still haven't used about 20 of them.

*rdgrimes* · 01-03-2003

I ran some more tests on both the spindles of this colored media that I have and the results are consistant. I have no explanation other then the tests themselves.
All burned on my LTR-52246S at 40x, 700MB image file, full speed reading.

Blue discs:

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Green discs:

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Orange discs:

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Red discs:

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I ran 2 sets of tests on randomly selected discs from each spindle, and the results are very much the same on all tests.

The red and blue discs are consistanly bad on numerous tests. Often CDDoctor cannot finish the test.

joelmon · 01-03-2003

so, out of all the samples you've tested so far only one has a c2 error showing before the 64 minute mark...Does this mean that the first 64 minutes are ok??

Or is the whole disc ruined??

And, are these errors the kind that can be "corrected" by plextools audio error detection set at 5??

Nogib · 01-03-2003

rdgrimes, I too seem to have bit upon a bad batch of Fuji TY's. These are the standard silver top 48X rated spindles though. It's almost as if the "groove" is pressed wrong on them. On unburned discs I can see some faint banding in the spiral groove when held in the light properly that I have never seen on any CDR before. Although I can only burn at 20X on my PlexCombo drive, even then I'm getting some odd hiccups with them. No unrecoverable errors yet, but the disc spins WAY down when reading them. Other Memorex 40X and Fuji 24X TY discs I have don't exhibit a single problem.

*rdgrimes* · 01-03-2003

Quote:

so, out of all the samples you've tested so far only one has a c2 error showing before the 64 minute mark...Does this mean that the first 64 minutes are ok??

I certainly would not trust one of these discs in any capacity.
It occurs to me that this may be more of a reading issue than a write-quality issue. Here's the same red disc from above, read at 8x instead of full speed:

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scottmso · 01-03-2003

I haven't had bad luck with the colored Fujifilm TYs you are talking about. A couple of the red and blue ones come out fairly well in CD Speed (I haven't tested for C1 errors.) There may be a few C2s, like 194 in a disc (blue) I just tested. I don't remember what speed I burned it at, but I also have a few regular Fuji TY-made discs that occasionally have C2s. Have you tested the discs in CD Speed? Are there any unreadable errors?

*icey* · 01-03-2003

Burned nearly 100 of the latest Plextor branded TY's rated 48 speed and all are given the 2 CDSpeed checks (scandisk + quality) and every one passes all green with 0.00 errors all the way at full speed (30+ times for my system)

I had more problems (a few bad cd's) in batches of 100 of Kodak + Mitsui than any trouble with the new TY Plextors.

Ice

*AZImmortal* · 02-03-2003

this thread talks specifically about the colored fujis icey.

i think u just got a bad batch rd, i just burned two blue ones at 52x and read them at 52x with cd doctor, and they give about the same results as the normal silver-top fujis.

i'll post the results if someone can tell me a good free webspace provider that allows direct links (i tried geocities and tripod).

*rdgrimes* · 02-03-2003

Quote:

i'll post the results

I believe you, been using Fuji for quite a while. I'm testing a few of them now at low burn speeds, will post the results soon. I just think it's an interesting phenomenon, probably the dye or reflective layer is too thin.

*rdgrimes* · 02-03-2003

Heres 2 discs burned at slow speeds:

Red, burned at 24x, read at full speed:

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Blue, burned at 12x and read at full speed:

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This starts to look like more of a reading issue.
What's also interesting is that my LTR-48125W has much less trouble reading them.

*icey* · 02-03-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by AZImmortal
this thread talks specifically about the colored fujis icey.

I know - it's just related to talking about Fuji branded TY's and another poster mentions silver x48 TY's - I just meant to add that recently purchased silver toppped (Plextor) cyanine dye x48 rebadged TY's that are in my possession seem absolutely fine - in case people start thinking there is a quality issue in general with new TY cd's - still of worry this.

Ice'y

i think u just got a bad batch rd, i just burned two blue ones at 52x and read them at 52x with cd doctor, and they give about the same results as the normal silver-top fujis.

i'll post the results if someone can tell me a good free webspace provider that allows direct links (i tried geocities and tripod).

bat078 · 04-03-2003

I have been using the 24x fujifilm 50 pack color and the 30 or so I burned so far at 52x with no errors on a liteon 52x drive. smatrburn shows them at 52x

Techno Pride · 04-03-2003

I suppose these are the same as the 32x Sony media? They come in 5 color swirls as well.

I burned 2 pieces of red swirl Sony at 32x with my TDK 4800D (Teac w/ Mediatek chipset) and I got 0 errors in CDSPeed's CD Quality Test. There is no option to turn off the 32x limit, unlike Liteon drives.

CDDoctor doesn't work here, so can't check for C1/C2.

This Disc is designed for CD-RW/COMBO Drive Only.
Disc Type, Material = CD-R, Cyanine
ATIP Lead-in = 97m 24s 01f
Norminal Capacity = 702.83MB (79m 59s 73f)
Disc Manufacturer maybe = Taiyoyuden DX-dye
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 32X

godzilla525 · 11-03-2003

I haven't had any problems with my spindles of colored Fujis, but I do notice that the old 24x spindle I just finished had a lower C1 error rate than the newer 40x spindle I got on sale in Target a while back...

I have noticed that some colors seem to burn better than others, but nothing as bad as what you described, so I took a closer look at mine.

It looks like they have a different stamper line for each color.

If you look closely at the writing around the hub on the bottom side, you can see the difference.

Blue: extremely blocky looking 80 PG10027
Red: nice rounded laser-etched 80 PG3001 0062
Green: rounded laser-etched 0602 on one side with a Helvetica 80 PG7074 on the other.
Orange: same as Green
Violet: rounded laser-etched 0604 on one side with a Helvetica 80 PG7064 on the other.

!!Make sure to keep track of the serial numbers from the bad ones!!

It might help piece together a part of the mystery.

scottmso · 14-03-2003

Just burned an orange one of these, from a 40x spindle, and I get about 100000 C2 errors in CD Speed!

lodger_001 · 13-04-2003

I got a bad spindle of silver topped fuji's as well. so far I'm 1/3 into it and all my discs have 200,000+ errors almost always starting after 65-70 minute mark. Not usually a huge deal on data discs, as they can be recovered, but it ruins vcds/svcds

link626 · 04-05-2003

I am disappointed with TY.

I hear all this praise about them, and then I go buy my first spindle of fuji discs in 4 years and I get this! (the last time I used TY discs was back in the days of 4x imation cdr's)

I've burned about 1/3 of this 50pack spindle of 48x silver top fuji's, and I've had 2 discs go bad. This is my worst experience next to using kypermedia discs. Even my Philips CMC's didn't have huge errors like this.

these 2 cd's were burnt using different burners at 16x. one was liteon, the other was LG, but that doesn't matter, since the problem lies with the media.

Liteon burnt:

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LG burnt:

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Scans were done using my 40x liteon at home.

*terminalvelocd* · 04-05-2003

@link626:
hehehe....No wonder you are having problems with these discs, you're burning them at 16x with an LG and a LiteOn burner! In my experience, LiteOn drives only work well at one speed - flat out. Writing at 24x/32x/40x/48x/52x (whatever your max speed is) gives the least errors, sometimes even on older slow speed media. I've also found that really old media, especially Cyanine-based media, don't record well with these burners.

link626 · 04-05-2003

i have had no problems burning with these burners. the LG is rated 16x max, and the lite-on is rated 24x max. These are school lab computers that I am using.

Most of the fuji (and CMC) i have burned with these burners have been 100% error free, and i never burn faster than 12x or 16x. So I know these burners don't have a problem burning media at slower speeds.

my results look consistent with that of some other fuji buyers on this forum.... Also, the errors on these 2 cd's are similar to each other, with errors appearing together in a huge band early on.

*rdgrimes* · 04-05-2003

Quote:

the LG is rated 16x max, and the lite-on is rated 24x max

There's no question that these are old drives and that the new media is not well-matched for them. That said, it's also true that there is no such thing as perfect media, ALL makers have variation in batch quality. You don't state what drive was used for the scans.

Robaire · 09-05-2003

I also had a bad batch of the Fuji color swirled media. In case anyone else has this problem, if you contact Fuji, they will replace the bad discs free of charge. They will even send you a prepaid mailing label to send them back the bad disks. The replacement discs I received are excellent. Very good support from Fuji.

27-02-2003	#1
rdgrimes Retired Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Deadwood Posts: 11,533	More bad Fuji media Recently i posted some crappy TY-made Fuji, which was limited to one batch. Last week I was in a store and picked up some on-sale Fuji. It's the colored type media, marked 40x, has a spiral swoosh of colors on the back in blue, orange, green, etc. Out of the 8 or so that I've used, 2 failed during the burn ("write error"). Here are 2, burned at 40x and 32x. The ATIP on these discs is identical to the newest 48x TY media. Embedded Images View/download images and remove advertisements by registering now! (it's easy, free and takes less than a minute) You must be registered in order view images in this forum. Burned at 32x Embedded Images View/download images and remove advertisements by registering now! (it's easy, free and takes less than a minute) You must be registered in order view images in this forum. This is not good. It's interesting to note that the 2 failures and these 2 tests were all on discs that had blue color on the back. I also tested one with orange color, and it was flawless. Two with dark green were much better, but still had errors late in the burn. do you suppose the color on the back is the problem? You can clearly see the swoosh when you hold them up to light and look from the burn-side.

28-02-2003	#3
AZImmortal Retired Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,941	have u tested all of the 5 colors and/or multiple spindles rdgrimes? i bought a few packs of these colored ones (rated at 48x) a few weeks ago cuz they were free after rebate and haven't had a chance to test them out yet. __________________ Vob Blanker \| DvdReMake (Pro) I don't respond to questions through PM that should be asked in the forum

01-03-2003	#6
rdgrimes Retired Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Deadwood Posts: 11,533	Wierder and wierder I ran some more tests on both the spindles of this colored media that I have and the results are consistant. I have no explanation other then the tests themselves. All burned on my LTR-52246S at 40x, 700MB image file, full speed reading. Blue discs: Embedded Images View/download images and remove advertisements by registering now! (it's easy, free and takes less than a minute) You must be registered in order view images in this forum. Green discs: Embedded Images View/download images and remove advertisements by registering now! (it's easy, free and takes less than a minute) You must be registered in order view images in this forum. Orange discs: Embedded Images View/download images and remove advertisements by registering now! (it's easy, free and takes less than a minute) You must be registered in order view images in this forum. Red discs: Embedded Images View/download images and remove advertisements by registering now! (it's easy, free and takes less than a minute) You must be registered in order view images in this forum. I ran 2 sets of tests on randomly selected discs from each spindle, and the results are very much the same on all tests. The red and blue discs are consistanly bad on numerous tests. Often CDDoctor cannot finish the test.

02-03-2003	#12
AZImmortal Retired Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,941	this thread talks specifically about the colored fujis icey. i think u just got a bad batch rd, i just burned two blue ones at 52x and read them at 52x with cd doctor, and they give about the same results as the normal silver-top fujis. i'll post the results if someone can tell me a good free webspace provider that allows direct links (i tried geocities and tripod). __________________ Vob Blanker \| DvdReMake (Pro) I don't respond to questions through PM that should be asked in the forum

02-03-2003	#14
rdgrimes Retired Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Deadwood Posts: 11,533	Heres 2 discs burned at slow speeds: Red, burned at 24x, read at full speed: Embedded Images View/download images and remove advertisements by registering now! (it's easy, free and takes less than a minute) You must be registered in order view images in this forum. Blue, burned at 12x and read at full speed: Embedded Images View/download images and remove advertisements by registering now! (it's easy, free and takes less than a minute) You must be registered in order view images in this forum. This starts to look like more of a reading issue. What's also interesting is that my LTR-48125W has much less trouble reading them. Last edited by rdgrimes; 02-03-2003 at 02:51.

28-02-2003	#2
joelmon CD Freaks Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 124	I just bought some of these colored Fuji's too..I don't have a tester to see any errors, however cdr's sounded ok... Have you had any of these kind of results from the silver top 48x Fuji's?? The "swoosh" type, I only bought a 30 pack, gonna stick with the silver top..Hopefully they're a better "run" of TY......

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01-03-2003	#5
scottmso CD Freaks Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 165	I've had no problems with a 50-spindle of the color 40x TY Fujifilm bought a few months ago but still haven't used about 20 of them.

01-03-2003	#8
Nogib New on Forum Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 15	rdgrimes, I too seem to have bit upon a bad batch of Fuji TY's. These are the standard silver top 48X rated spindles though. It's almost as if the "groove" is pressed wrong on them. On unburned discs I can see some faint banding in the spiral groove when held in the light properly that I have never seen on any CDR before. Although I can only burn at 20X on my PlexCombo drive, even then I'm getting some odd hiccups with them. No unrecoverable errors yet, but the disc spins WAY down when reading them. Other Memorex 40X and Fuji 24X TY discs I have don't exhibit a single problem.

01-03-2003	#11
icey CDFreaks Resident Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 717	Burned nearly 100 of the latest Plextor branded TY's rated 48 speed and all are given the 2 CDSpeed checks (scandisk + quality) and every one passes all green with 0.00 errors all the way at full speed (30+ times for my system) I had more problems (a few bad cd's) in batches of 100 of Kodak + Mitsui than any trouble with the new TY Plextors. Ice

04-03-2003	#16
bat078 New on Forum Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 7	Mr I have been using the 24x fujifilm 50 pack color and the 30 or so I burned so far at 52x with no errors on a liteon 52x drive. smatrburn shows them at 52x

04-03-2003	#17
Techno Pride New on Forum Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 6	I suppose these are the same as the 32x Sony media? They come in 5 color swirls as well. I burned 2 pieces of red swirl Sony at 32x with my TDK 4800D (Teac w/ Mediatek chipset) and I got 0 errors in CDSPeed's CD Quality Test. There is no option to turn off the 32x limit, unlike Liteon drives. CDDoctor doesn't work here, so can't check for C1/C2. This Disc is designed for CD-RW/COMBO Drive Only. Disc Type, Material = CD-R, Cyanine ATIP Lead-in = 97m 24s 01f Norminal Capacity = 702.83MB (79m 59s 73f) Disc Manufacturer maybe = Taiyoyuden DX-dye SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 32X

11-03-2003	#18
godzilla525 CD Freaks Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 202	I haven't had any problems with my spindles of colored Fujis, but I do notice that the old 24x spindle I just finished had a lower C1 error rate than the newer 40x spindle I got on sale in Target a while back... I have noticed that some colors seem to burn better than others, but nothing as bad as what you described, so I took a closer look at mine. It looks like they have a different stamper line for each color. If you look closely at the writing around the hub on the bottom side, you can see the difference. Blue: extremely blocky looking 80 PG10027 Red: nice rounded laser-etched 80 PG3001 0062 Green: rounded laser-etched 0602 on one side with a Helvetica 80 PG7074 on the other. Orange: same as Green Violet: rounded laser-etched 0604 on one side with a Helvetica 80 PG7064 on the other. !!Make sure to keep track of the serial numbers from the bad ones!! It might help piece together a part of the mystery. __________________ godzilla525 Home: Matsushita/Panasonic SR-8585 DVD 8/40 v1W32 Lite-On LTR-32123S w/XSU1 "LTR-40125S" Laptop (Dell Inspiron 8200): Toshiba SD-C2612 DVD 8/24 v1D23 Matsushita/Panasonic UJDA360 CD-RW 24/10/24 v1.04 Lite-On SOHW-1693S w/KSOA in 1394/USB2 box

14-03-2003	#19
scottmso CD Freaks Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 165	Just burned an orange one of these, from a 40x spindle, and I get about 100000 C2 errors in CD Speed!

13-04-2003	#20
lodger_001 New on Forum Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2	I got a bad spindle of silver topped fuji's as well. so far I'm 1/3 into it and all my discs have 200,000+ errors almost always starting after 65-70 minute mark. Not usually a huge deal on data discs, as they can be recovered, but it ruins vcds/svcds

04-05-2003	#21
link626 MyCE Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 103	I am disappointed with TY. I hear all this praise about them, and then I go buy my first spindle of fuji discs in 4 years and I get this! (the last time I used TY discs was back in the days of 4x imation cdr's) I've burned about 1/3 of this 50pack spindle of 48x silver top fuji's, and I've had 2 discs go bad. This is my worst experience next to using kypermedia discs. Even my Philips CMC's didn't have huge errors like this. these 2 cd's were burnt using different burners at 16x. one was liteon, the other was LG, but that doesn't matter, since the problem lies with the media. Liteon burnt: Embedded Images View/download images and remove advertisements by registering now! (it's easy, free and takes less than a minute) You must be registered in order view images in this forum. LG burnt: Embedded Images View/download images and remove advertisements by registering now! (it's easy, free and takes less than a minute) You must be registered in order view images in this forum. Scans were done using my 40x liteon at home. Last edited by link626; 04-05-2003 at 21:53.

04-05-2003	#22
terminalvelocd MyCE Resident Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Western Australia Posts: 1,207	@link626: hehehe....No wonder you are having problems with these discs, you're burning them at 16x with an LG and a LiteOn burner! In my experience, LiteOn drives only work well at one speed - flat out. Writing at 24x/32x/40x/48x/52x (whatever your max speed is) gives the least errors, sometimes even on older slow speed media. I've also found that really old media, especially Cyanine-based media, don't record well with these burners. __________________ TerminalVeloCD - ODD Enthusiast from Western Australia Pioneer DVR-106D, DVR-A06, DVR-107D, DVR-108, DVR-109, DVR-110D, DVR-111D, DVR-112D, DVR-212, DVR-A12XL, DVR-213LS, DVR-115D, DVR-215, DVR-116D, DVR-216, DVR-X162, DVR-217, DVR-218L, BDR-101A, BDR-202, BDR-203, BDR-205, BDR-206, BDR-207

09-05-2003	#25
Robaire New on Forum Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 6	I also had a bad batch of the Fuji color swirled media. In case anyone else has this problem, if you contact Fuji, they will replace the bad discs free of charge. They will even send you a prepaid mailing label to send them back the bad disks. The replacement discs I received are excellent. Very good support from Fuji.

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