MediaRange DVD+R DL: am I doing something totally wrong?

I need your help!
Using a Liteon SHW-1635S burner (Fw 1635S.YV6P.patched-fbd) I am getting totally rubbish results from burning DVD+R DL MediaRange.

This is the disk identifier:
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Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD+R-DL:RICOHJPN-D01-067]
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Disc & Book Type : [DVD+R DL] - [DVD-ROM]
Manufacturer Name : [Ricoh Co. Ltd.]
Manufacturer ID : [RICOHJPN]
Media Type ID : [D01]
Product Revision : [067]
Blank Disc Capacity : [4,173,824 Sectors = 8.55 GB (7.96 GiB)]
Recording Speeds : [2.4x , 3.3x-8x]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
** INFO : Hex Dump Of 'Media Code'-Block Listed Below
** INFO : 4-Byte Header Preceding 'Media Code'-Block Discarded
** INFO : Format 11h (Method 1) - ADIP Information
0000 : e1 0f 32 10 00 03 00 00 00 fc ff ff 00 22 d7 ff ..2.........."..
0010 : 00 00 03 52 49 43 4f 48 4a 50 4e 44 30 31 43 40 ...RICOHJPND01C@
0020 : 25 25 37 10 00 2c 6c 00 2c 6c 20 1f 0c 0c 14 14 %%7..,l.,l .....
0030 : 02 01 01 20 00 20 1f 0c 0c 14 14 02 01 01 20 00 ... . ........ .
0040 : 04 00 33 7b 5c 00 25 69 3a 26 1c 0a 0b 20 02 01 ..3{\.%i:&... ..
0050 : 01 00 00 58 62 42 26 1c 0a 0b 20 02 01 01 00 5f ...XbB&... ...._
0060 : 84 00 00 43 66 3e 26 1c 0a 0b 20 02 01 01 00 00 ...Cf>&... .....
0070 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
0080 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
0090 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
00a0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
00b0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
00c0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
00d0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
00e0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
00f0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ DVD Identifier V5.0.1 - http://DVD.Identifier.CDfreaks.com ]
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Two huge problems:
a) Any burning program I tried tells me I have to select among 4x, 6x and 8x burning speed. The media are sold as 2,4x but the burner seems not to understand it at all (firmware issue? how to correct it?)

b) the recording on layer 1 seems ok, but layer 2 is totally rubbish.
Attached is the ber curves. Note the huge jump in error immediately at the start of layer 2.
http://club.cdfreaks.com/attachments...mediarange.png

Why is this happening? Is it me doing something trivial?

Thanks to anyonw who will be able to suggest what to do and sorry I am not too expert with DVD and this is early experience on DL (this is also why I am experimenting with this not so good disks!).

Yes, you're definitely doing something wrong.

You're using sub-standard media, and probably fakes too.

Regards,
TerminalVeloCD

Well, the scan speed says MAX so I'm guessing your drive is reading that as fast as possible. Reduce it to 4x as higher speeds will screw things up no matter how good or bad the burn is.

You can scan SL media @ max speeds but not DL.

Scan @4x and post results. Don't throw out your burns yet!

Hello,

I Have the same trouble at the moment here. I have buy this DLs labeled with 2.4 speed. But it seems that they are write support at 2.4, 4, 6, 8 x. The Problem is that i have lot of trouble with xbox360. Most of them will not start.
And i have burn it only at 2.4 speed at Pioneer 112D. Most of them has a
Verify-Error exakt on the Layer-Break. The first 100 DL i buy was with the
Mediacode DVD+R-DL:RICOHJPN-D00-01. And i have Perfekt results with this.
The New One's are Terrible at the Moment. If anyone has an idee what i can do with this media is welcome.

Greetings from Germany (sorry for my poor english)

Well the best solution for both of you is to stick to Verbatim DVD-RDL media. Do not use other stuff as it's simply not as good.

The layer break causing read errors is a perfect example of a B grade DL disc.

Use Verbatim (Made in Singapore) DL media and you will not have these issues.

Thank for your quick answer. maybe the Verbatim are the best. But the first DLs with MediaCode RICOHJPN-D00-01 were in my opinion perfekt too. so whats the problem with the new ones ? Maybe Fakes ? or real Ricoh ?

Answers were already given...
Buy Verbatim DL or buy the original games. You have no other choice.

So you have more d00-01 Ricoh but they don't work as well as the old ones? This can be because of variation in quality. Verbatim Made in Singapore DL is always A grade. Ricoh can vary. You might get good stuff sometimes and then get crap another time.

We don't even know if we're dealing with fake media here. I have some fake RICOHJPND01 - unusuable landfill matter!

Regards,
TerminalVeloCD

May I ask to get back to the technical discussion?
I know perfectly well that Verbatim are better, but I am trying to explore and understand what the hell is happening here.

First: what is setting the speed defaults in a DVD burner (like DVDecrypter or IMG Burn etc). I don't understand where the 4x,6x and 8x are coming from in their defaults with these particular media.

Second: Is there anyway to tell the firmware to use a different and slower writing strategy for this media? I am willing to write my disks at 1x if this is possible just not to trow them all away!
I don't need durable wonderful copies but just something which works for 1 year or so for backup!!!
Please suggest how to act to use these disks!

Third: I don't understand the comment on 4x reading speed affecting the BER curves. Yes reading speed might be something of a second order affecting the result, but already now I see a huge difference between the first and second layer (and both are read at the same speed!!). It seems like the recorder is not able to write correctly to the second layer for some reason. I bet that recording slower would help a lot the results, but would like opinions and suggestions on how to reduce my recording speed (any setting I put in DVDecrypt is overulled and recording speed is always 4x or higher...)

Sorry, but there's maybe a bit confusion here. So first i have buy maybe 100 or more MediaRange labeled with 2.4 speed. The MediaCode is RICOHJPN-D00-01.
Burnt with MaxSpeed at 2.4 with for my Good Result. So i buy last week another 150 Disk MediaRange 2.4 speed. The new ones are now with MediaCode
RICOHJPN-D01-067 and can burn up to 8X but still labeled at 2.4speed. And the Problem is that they are most of them will not work. I have Verify-Errors at the LayerBreak. Burnt with 2.4 Speed. The Question for my is: Are there other Brands with this MediaCode with the same Problem ?

@ gianni76: I have burn it with IMGburn. And i have select 2.4 WriteSpeed.
But the Result is the same as you have. The DVD won't work. So i think you
and i will looking for other Media. I have burnt it with Pioneer with the latest
Firmware 1.22

@ _chef_: Okay Verbatim are perfect. But i read here sometimes Made in Singapore. So there are other that are not perfekt ?

The made in Indian Verbatim DL have been shown to have visible defects at times, in addition to the usual variance in quality of Made in India. I wouldn't expect perfection from Verbatim DL either, but they come closer to it with a good DL burner there should rarely be problems.

May I ask: where were the MediaRange DVD+R DLs made? Do they have a blue coloured dye or a dark metallic purple?

Regards,
TerminalVeloCD

I think its the purple dye. but it is difficult to verify it without a other sample.
But they are more purple as blue. Maybe gianni76 can tell us what he think.
And i'm sorry but i dont know where i can see were the DVDs are made.
The MediaCode is the same as gianni76 postet first.

Sound like you may have some fake discs then, as genuine RICOHJPND00/RICOHJPND01 dye is more blue than purple. Does your sample have the Ritek serial numbering system around the centre hub (black printed characters)?

Regards,
TerminalVeloCD

The official MediaRange site says that they are manufactured in Germany

- with " High quality AZO dye "

- and that they have " Outstanding archival life "


http://www.mediarange.de/en/produkte...89/index.pmode

Ok first of all, understand this - read speed will effect a DL burn. Scan @ 4x or 8x absolute max or your results are worthless rubbish. DL has much lower reflectivity and it's just simply so much harder for any laser to read. Scanning speeds will effect your results. When I scan @ 12x I get a solid PIF block throughout the entire disc and high PIE also. That's with A-grade Verbatim. 4x or 8x makes the result look totally different. This all depends of course if your writer is scanning @ 12x or 8x? If it's scanning @ 8x, then maybe it's just truly a shitty burn. I still recommend taking the time to scan @ 4x with those DL as high speed in an older liteon such as yours can throw the results out massively. It just puts too much stress on a reader and will probably show high errors even on a good disc like Verbatim.

Now as for setting a lower speed, if 4x doesn't work, 2.4x might not have much more luck, but there is a way around it. You can probably download smart burn utility for liteon drives and enable hyper tuning and over speed settings, and it should allow you to select different write speeds not available before + write more reliable to crappy media. http://club.cdfreaks.com/f44/compreh...dia-smart_burn

If that doesn't work, you can try Media Code Speed Edit - it's on the same page as the link I just provided . Load your FW into this program. It then shows all the speeds available for each MID. Basically, you can double click the strategy for your Ricoh DL media and then replace it with another MID like Verbatims MKM001. This will allow 2.4 writing. Save the FW and then make sure you flash to the FW you just created with the swapped MID. You may get very bad burns or you could get life saving burns. Worth a try if nothing else works.

The DVD+R DL MediaRange I have got have these characteristics:
- fronte face Silver with written on it:
MediaRange (on top)
DVD+R DL Recordable Double Layer (left side)
2.4x (right side)
8.5 Gigabyte

- Dye face
color violet (absolutely not blue!)

- Center Hub:
there is a code engraved on the plastic (definitely NOT PRINTED and NOT in black, but just engraved). This is tiny and not too easy to read but what I can see is (including spaces and dots):
DL.1810017 16108. T28T28 05 02 070917 16 09 43 45453

- DVD Code Identifier:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD+R-DL:RICOHJPN-D01-067]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disc & Book Type : [DVD+R DL] - [DVD-ROM]
Manufacturer Name : [Ricoh Co. Ltd.]
Manufacturer ID : [RICOHJPN]
Media Type ID : [D01]
Product Revision : [067]
Blank Disc Capacity : [4,173,824 Sectors = 8.55 GB (7.96 GiB)]
Recording Speeds : [2.4x , 3.3x-8x]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
** INFO : Hex Dump Of 'Media Code'-Block Listed Below
** INFO : 4-Byte Header Preceding 'Media Code'-Block Discarded
** INFO : Format 11h (Method 1) - ADIP Information
0000 : e1 0f 32 10 00 03 00 00 00 fc ff ff 00 22 d7 ff ..2.........."..
0010 : 00 00 03 52 49 43 4f 48 4a 50 4e 44 30 31 43 40 ...RICOHJPND01C@
0020 : 25 25 37 10 00 2c 6c 00 2c 6c 20 1f 0c 0c 14 14 %%7..,l.,l .....
0030 : 02 01 01 20 00 20 1f 0c 0c 14 14 02 01 01 20 00 ... . ........ .
0040 : 04 00 33 7b 5c 00 25 69 3a 26 1c 0a 0b 20 02 01 ..3{\.%i:&... ..
0050 : 01 00 00 58 62 42 26 1c 0a 0b 20 02 01 01 00 5f ...XbB&... ...._
0060 : 84 00 00 43 66 3e 26 1c 0a 0b 20 02 01 01 00 00 ...Cf>&... .....
0070 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
0080 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
0090 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
00a0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
00b0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
00c0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
00d0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
00e0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
00f0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ DVD Identifier V5.0.1 - http://DVD.Identifier.CDfreaks.com ]
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- The disks were bought online at luxdisc.com and come in cakeboxes of 10 disks each, all reporting the MediaRange brand on the raised circle of the box.

Could anyone confirm these are not original MediaRange?
I bought them on reccomendations of some friends who used this brand before.... but I am now suspecting the shop I bought them from were not reliable!

Been there, done that...
It were already explained that all DL media produced except from Verbatim/MKM/MCC is using the Inverted Stack Method which requires differently optimized write strategies, which are rarely available or included either....

AFAIK, the MIS are the proven Verbatim DVD+R DL media available since a while. MII (Made In India) DL has appeared and *seems* to be worse fom what I have read... I had no chance to test them against the other ones (MIS) yet.
MII are only Verbatim DVD+R DL 2.4x so far (IIRC).

Sorry, to me all that sounds only like marketing BS.

More of that:
http://www.mediarange.de/en/produkte/produkte/dvd/index.pmode/modul|kat|19/index.pmode

That is extremely funny IMO:
"Usable for video (CLV) and data (CAV)"

Come on chef, haven't you heard of the edit button?

for those of you a bit picky in tests, I have redone the kprobe on two different sasmples of these MediaRange DVD+R DL.he results are pretty much the same as faster readins.

Here the two (the first is a rescan at 2x of the same media as attached earlier; the second is a scan at 2x of a different sample of the same DVD+RDL) for you to comment. To me once again it seems there is something very very wrong in the second layer.

Well, I personally think the start of the disc is also quite rubbish, the second half just over shadows it's shittyness lol. Thanks for the slower scan btw. It's much clearer now how crappy these discs are.

You will have to try some of the tools I linked you to earlier to force the write speed to go slower. Hopefully that will work, otherwise the only solution left is buy Vebratim.

Doesn't look at all like a Ritek serial to me. (Ritek manufactures the genuine Ricoh DL media).

BTW Mediarange is one of these el-cheapo brands selling about just anything they can buy at lowest prices, most of the time C-grade stuff wrapped into pretty marketing lies. On par with Rimedia, Tuffdisc and so on.
They also have a history of selling fake MCC SL products as well as genuine but sub-standard MCC (not endorsed by Mitsubishi) from... Moser Baer.

That explains a lot, I think, about what people are experiencing with these DL discs...

Once again: "buy cheap, buy twice". Don't waste your time with crappy media just to cut some corners in terms of cost, in the end you're the looser.

Also, only very recent burners can do well with (genuine) Ricoh DL. All older burners (> 1 year) are unable to handle them properly because the inverted stack method of manufacturing needs specific support. This being one of the explanations why we're all parrots and sing: "Use only Verbatim DL".

I wouldn't trust a brand with typos on their website.

Since when has "Video" implied CLV and "Data" implied CAV? When reading video at real-time, only CLV can be used (obviously) but when writing video, the writing concept used will depend on the drive and write speed. Same goes for data - the hardware will determine the ceoncept(s) used.

Regards,
TerminalVeloCD