MAM-E Mitsui DVD+R - Has anyone tested them yet?

vlix · 23-04-2004

MAM-E Mitsui DVD+R media have been for sale now for a while (in the CD Freaks web shop for example), but as far as I can see there are no test results posted yet in the DVD Media Tests forum. Given the good reputation of Mitsui discs, this kind of surprised me

Has anyone tried them out yet?

Thanks!

aLPHa_NRG · 26-04-2004

I'm also very curious.

aLP/

*BoSkin* · 26-04-2004

Use the search button to view the opinions.

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EYES_ONLY · 15-06-2004

Searched the board, but found nothing :-(

Nobody here knows if they are any good, especially on a nec1300a??

kiger · 08-10-2004

Basically Mitsui (now called MAM-A) DVD-R media sucks... it's worse than Ritek (mind you, Ritek is good, but its quality was no where near the "old-school" Mitsui). So what happened?

Well Mitsui withdrew from making DVD media and sold their DVD facilities to a company called C.S.I. So CSI now makes the media under the MAM-A name.

Quote:

Colorado Springs, CO ? June 16, 2003

Mitsui Chemicals, Inc. has made a strategic decision to partially withdraw from the CD-R and DVD-R manufacturing arena. Computer Support Italcard s.r.l. (CSI) of Italy, has agreed to acquire the majority stake in Mitsui Advanced Media, Inc..

CSI of Milan Italy, is a leader in the production of CD-R, DVD-R, micro floppy disc, paper products, CD-Rom and CD-Audio. CSI was created in 1997 through a fusion between two companies, Computer Support Italy and Italcard. Italcard was a market leader in the production of listing forms for printers, born in 1975. CSI operates a 150,000 sq. ft. facility at Milan, Italy. Last summer CSI also acquired majority control of Mitsui Advanced Media, SA in France, now Manufacturing Advanced Media Europe, SA (MAM-E). Since then, CSI has installed DVD-R and additional CD-R capacity in the MAM-E facility. With the acquisitions of MAM-E and Mitsui Advanced Media, Inc., CSI will command approximately $130 million in annual sales.

I bought some of this new "silver" media and it's just plain horrid. I could instantly tell their media has turned to sh*t for several reasons. First, the new DVD-R media could be scratched up so friggin easily. Just tapping my fingernail lightly on the data side of the disc left a mark. The OLD "gold" Mitsui DVD media NEVER had this problem. Heck, it was almost as scratch resistant as the TDK armor plated stuff. And the second reason Mitsui (now MAM-A) media sucks? Well, they outsource to other people!! So when you buy a MAM-A disc, it might not even be manufactured by MAM-A!

MAM-A 4x DVD-Rs = MCI4XG01 (made by Nashua?)
MAM-A 4x DVD+Rs = DDDessauV20 (don't know this manufacturer)
MAM-A 2x DVD-RWs = OPTODISCK001 (made by Optodisc)
MAM-A 4x DVD+RWs = OPTODISCOP4 (made by Optodisc)

I'm sorry, but the day when MAM-A puts their name on a product made by Optodisc, and tries to pass it off as their own, is the day that I lose all respect for MAM-A.

So the moral of the story is, don't buy Mitsui (i.e., MAM-A) media anymore. It's pure crap. And what ticks me off even more is that most people (including myself until recently) didn't even know about this "change"! MAM-A used some lame excuse such as "the silver media allows us to write at faster speeds than the gold media" to get around the fact they no longer have a quality control for the discs! *shudder* When I think of all the people that are buying MAM-A thinking it's good media due to the affiliation with the Mitsui name... that's just evil.

(I'm lucky enough to have 250 of the Mitsui 2x GOLD discs sitting here. Man they kick ass haha. Save them for special occasions lol!)

vlix · 09-10-2004

Kiger, thanks for that info!

I have already found out by myself by now that Mitsui media sucks these days.

It's too bad... Mitsui, along with TY, used to be synonymous with superb quality in the CD-R days.

As far as I know, there is now only one brand left if you really want top quality: Taiyo Yuden... I'd like some more competition.

isthme · 30-03-2005

For vlix and kiger
MAM-E (Europe) and MAM-E (America) are sister companies of CSI right.
But licensed technology comes from Mitsui regarding CD-R
For DVD-R and DVD+R, they have launched their own development, using other dye than Mitsui, for compatibility reasons.

1) For DVD+R and DVD-R, MAM-E and MAM-A are using their own DVD now
MAM-E is producing and developping medias with its own ID code :
MAM4XG02 for DVD-R 4X
MAM8XG01 for DVD-R 8X
MAMSXG01 for DVD-R 16X
MAMM02 for DVD+R 8X
MAMM04 for DVD+R 16X

First introduction of +R medias should have been sourced from Optodisc in a very limited period, that is not the case anymore.

MAM ID compatibility list could be shown on their web site www.mam-e.com
This list is improving regularly, and best chance is to get the firmware release for each drive also available on the web site ("support" section)

They are talking about introduction of DVD-R Gold in the next weeks (interesting to keep video alive for guaranteed lifetime)

2) for CD-R, MAM-E is still using Mitsui Phthtalocyanine dye !
and ATIP type did not changed from Mitsui time.
Still CD-R Gold alive for low speed recording from 1X to 12x, and Silver medias are 4x to 52x.

3) new products introduction on the web page shows incoming DVD+R DL and DVD+R 16X. I think DL will be sourced for sure (they did not produce DL at the moment), but for the rest, MAM ID is secured.

CONCLUSION : the testing I done on several major recorders show good recording and compatibility playback (NEC 2500 and 3500, Liteon 1653S and 1673S, Plextor 716A...) for both -R and +R medias.

If someone have other experience with ID mentionned, please let me know !

ID tracker -

*OC-Freak* · 30-03-2005

I will be getting some MAM-E media in a week or two - expect to see som test results then.

At CeBIT they told me they used YUDEN000T02 media code for 8x +R and TYG02 for 8x DVD-R. Still made at their factory and NOT by TY! Scaring to me - I think every manufacturer should invest in the effort to get their own media codes supported by the drives.

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Peralph · 31-03-2005

I was thinking of that OC-Freak, I remember seeing in that article the Kodak brnad that they bought. You might have known this for a great while, but in Canada that brand (for which the labels looks exactly like on your picture) is widely distributed, and it's rebadges of manufacturers like Moser Baer India and Infodisc, so it really does not looks good at all.

stevieB · 05-04-2005

I went visiting the factory of Mitsui.

It looked all professional to me......

We have experienced some problems in MID codes before , but they are constantly developping.

They will be using TY codes on 8x medias and are experimenting on 16x codes with MCC.

The quality of the disc is there but we have to wait for the compatibility issue.
lso noticed that they also produce for some major brands.
We have seen very few complaints on these media's....

But i still believe in the possibilty of the company , though it is very hard to compete in europe now.

Having a brandname like Kodak is a good start.
Anyhow they still produce the Kodak picture cd for kodak for several years now.....

Though we sell the goods i am a very critical person on medias....

again i say that we have experienced problems with own ID codes like MAM
regarding compatibility , but we also see the drastic improovements in this area....

And OC , I disagree in the investment......
This is the problem nowadays....
All drive manufacturors have zillion hours to work if the have to implement every MID code from every manufacturor.....
This is the main problem....
It is kind of a lobbying thing....
The people with the biggest $$$$ will end up having the best finetuning with the media and the drives...
Also the firmware memory capacity is restricted , and you have to make a choice as a manufacturor in which codes you are going to invest....
despite of the many many other manufacturors that will end up in very quality media but without certification of drives

*OC-Freak* · 05-04-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevieB

I went visiting the factory of Mitsui.

It looked all professional to me......

We have experienced some problems in MID codes before , but they are constantly developping.

They will be using TY codes on 8x medias and are experimenting on 16x codes with MCC.

The quality of the disc is there but we have to wait for the compatibility issue.
lso noticed that they also produce for some major brands.
We have seen very few complaints on these media's....

But i still believe in the possibilty of the company , though it is very hard to compete in europe now.

Having a brandname like Kodak is a good start.
Anyhow they still produce the Kodak picture cd for kodak for several years now.....

Though we sell the goods i am a very critical person on medias....

again i say that we have experienced problems with own ID codes like MAM
regarding compatibility , but we also see the drastic improovements in this area....

And OC , I disagree in the investment......
This is the problem nowadays....
All drive manufacturors have zillion hours to work if the have to implement every MID code from every manufacturor.....
This is the main problem....
It is kind of a lobbying thing....
The people with the biggest $$$$ will end up having the best finetuning with the media and the drives...
Also the firmware memory capacity is restricted , and you have to make a choice as a manufacturor in which codes you are going to invest....
despite of the many many other manufacturors that will end up in very quality media but without certification of drives

Well, a company that use a media code from another known manufacturer automatically loose 50% respect from me.

I have not tested any of their media so I can't comment on quality, but I guess it's not as good as the media from the manufacturers they use the media codes from...

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stevieB · 05-04-2005

i think you'd be pretty surprised if you actually know the companies that produce the media and and the ones who supply the stampering.....

To example you :
- Ricoh media , Fujifilm media or TDK media , under their respective brandnames with their own codes ..... you'd be surprised who actually does part of the manufacturing....

I can tell.... cause i saw it with my own eyes......

Maybe this even alter your respect for the companies......

I think in general it is a combination of quality control , machinery , inline bounding , dustfree and lots lots of testing which makes a quality disc.....
lobbying makes the compatibility.....

that is what makes it different........

In this case , I can tell you all european manufacturors (the ones which are still left) would ofcourse love to have their own ID codes and compatibility....

But it is hard to lobby......
It consumes time....

I can see your point , and I love to see several codes , but as you should know yourself , $$$$$ decides a company's strategy........

well the topic quotes Mitsui , but i can tell you that it is the same for a lot of suppliers......

I am here not to defend or promote a brandname , just to explain it is difficult , nomatter what brandname we are talking about.....

*OC-Freak* · 05-04-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevieB

i think you'd be pretty surprised if you actually know the companies that produce the media and and the ones who supply the stampering.....

To example you :
- Ricoh media , Fujifilm media or TDK media , under their respective brandnames with their own codes ..... you'd be surprised who actually does part of the manufacturing....

I can tell.... cause i saw it with my own eyes......

Maybe this even alter your respect for the companies......

I think in general it is a combination of quality control , machinery , inline bounding , dustfree and lots lots of testing which makes a quality disc.....
lobbying makes the compatibility.....

that is what makes it different........

In this case , I can tell you all european manufacturors (the ones which are still left) would ofcourse love to have their own ID codes and compatibility....

But it is hard to lobby......
It consumes time....

I can see your point , and I love to see several codes , but as you should know yourself , $$$$$ decides a company's strategy........

well the topic quotes Mitsui , but i can tell you that it is the same for a lot of suppliers......

I am here not to defend or promote a brandname , just to explain it is difficult , nomatter what brandname we are talking about.....

Ricoh is mostly made by Ritek.

Fujifilm is mostly made by prodisc and CMC Magnetics

TDK: Much media is made by CMC Magnetics - with different serial numbering system, very unlike other CMC discs - so it's hard to see that this is really made by CMC.

Was this what you had in mind?

Or where are the surprises?

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stevieB · 05-04-2005

well , OC , if you look at your moderated forums (excellent job by the way , this are not the surprises.....

I was talking of what I had seen with own eyes , so no , not the companies you are talking about...... , they are too far away from my bed , to get involved with.....

So you might be surprised who is manufacturing for whom....
But than again this is ofcourse companies secrets.....

I can imagine that some A-brands want to keep this as secretely as possible.....

So what I can't understand is which companies do you respect than ?
Since every company you said is either sourcing out for production or stampering.
one way or the other way around.....

But anyhow , the codes are definately there for compatibility.....
With more drives on the market and older drives still existing it is difficult to either obtain backwards compatibility and otherwise advance for newer burners and faster writing speeds....

And also since i told you that firmwarecapacity is limited you cannot stuff every firmware with all manufacturor id codes .... you have to choose....

and if you would have to choose , you would ofcourse go for those codes who are the most popular and the mostcompatible.....
And ofcourse you are also restricted to your dye supplier in order to have the perfect combination in dye and stampering....

crankydan · 06-04-2005

I’m really starting "NOT" to like where this topic is going. It does make sense what you are saying stevieB, which might explain the poor performance of some of the great name brands that I used to use.

The sorry part to this story is simply that CSI can and probably does make Name Brand disk, and the consumer never knows the difference. That is where they are out of line, CSI should mark their disk so folks can easily identify what they dont want to buy. As you would say stevieB, this is smart business, but the fact that the consumer doesn’t know who is actually producing what they are buying is just plain wrong!!!!!!!

To add to this, who is doing the quality checks for fake codes (codes being stamped by other than original manufactures)??? Are these savings being passed on to the consumers???? This is all BS in my books and if I found out what major brands are using this practice I would stop spending my hard earned money on them for sure.

*dakhaas* · 06-04-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by OC-Freak

Ricoh is mostly made by Ritek.

If we are talking about the ricoh mid.
Also MBIL seems to make Ricoh media these days.

Quote:

Fujifilm is mostly made by prodisc and CMC Magnetics

Don't forget MBIL we don't see this media much in Europe. But in some places you can only get MBIL made version.

Quote:

TDK: Much media is made by CMC Magnetics - with different serial numbering system, very unlike other CMC discs - so it's hard to see that this is really made by CMC.

You can add MAM-A (america ), MAM-E (europe) - CSI.
So TDK code use is legit.

About the TY code I'm not so sure maybe TY changed there policies it would explain developements like autostrategy and more but fact is that a lot of manufacturers did abuse the TY code without asking TY.

THe use of the MCC code can be legit if they will pay MCC that is.. But this one makes me think Mitsui/CSI/MAM allways had there big propaganda about that there pthalocyanine dye is much better as AZO dye's and now they seem to have interest in usseing a MCC code for there 16x media which means that they use MCC azo pigment based dye . So what did they made them took the decision to use something inferior in there own eyes. The fact that they are looseing the market and can not develop some own good technology any more ?

Point is I don't see a problem with licensing MID's but only if it works like in the old days. That the quality of the licensed media should be good when compared to the original media.

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Trak101 · 06-04-2005

For what it's worth, none of my FUJIFILM is CMC. The +RWs are RicohJPN and the +Rs are TY02.

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Okane786 · 06-04-2005

Quote:

THe use of the MCC code can be legit if they will pay MCC that is.. But this one makes me think Mitsui/CSI/MAM allways had there big propaganda about that there pthalocyanine dye is much better as AZO dye's and now they seem to have interest in usseing a MCC code for there 16x media which means that they use MCC azo pigment based dye

I'm a little skeptical as to whether there really is a variety of dye types in the DVD world:

In the CD arena, there are lots of articles out there explaining the different dye types. However, such explanations are conspicuously absent for DVDs. If someone does know of any, please tell me. The only thing I've been able to scrape up was a page saying that it's a cyanine variant http://www.srtl.co.uk/srtl/dvdinfo.html
All the various DVD brands I have all have the same purple color
There's a post here in the forum somewhere (I'm trying to find it) talking about some Verbatim DVDs being TYs. The person also included a photo of the package and if you look carefully, you'll see that it has the Azo logo on it. As far as I know, TY does not manufacture Azo.
I also have MCC DVD+Rs that also have the Azo logo, but it's also the same purple color as the others.

If I put my conspiracy theory hat on, I think all the manufacturers are using the same basic dye technology but don't want to admit it

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*OC-Freak* · 06-04-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by dakhaas

If we are talking about the ricoh mid.
Also MBIL seems to make Ricoh media these days.

Don't forget MBIL we don't see this media much in Europe. But in some places you can only get MBIL made version.

Yes - I know that MBIL also use FUJIFILM03, ritek used FUJIFILM03 for some batches as well (not anymore though). But I've never seen fujifilm branded FUJIFILM03 media made by MBIL.

As for ricoh MBIL - that was new to me, are they sold under the ricoh brand?

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*OC-Freak* · 06-04-2005

As for media codes, I've no objections for using media codes from known manufacturers if:

1: The original manufacturer/brand behind the media code, like Taiyo Yuden and Mitsubishi have given the permission to use their media code.
2: The quality and compatibility is as good as the original media using the codes.

I have several TYG02 "fake" media here and the quality is inferior, and doesn't work with Plextor and Toshiba drives for example. And as far as I know - they were never given permission from TY to use this media code...

THAT is why I dislike it.

If MAM-E media is: Allowed to use the TY and MCC media codes by respectively TY and MCC/MKM, and the quality and compatibility is just as good as the original media - then no objections from my side. (A statement from MCC and TY stating that MAM-E is allowed to use their media codes would be nice

- if they are allowed to use the codes).

And I still hope to get some media from MAM-E for testing, then we will see how quality and compatibility is...

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*dakhaas* · 06-04-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okane786

I'm a little skeptical as to whether there really is a variety of dye types in the DVD world:[list][*]In the CD arena, there are lots of articles out there explaining the different dye types. However, such explanations are conspicuously absent for DVDs. If someone does know of any, please tell me. The only thing I've been able to scrape up was a page saying that it's a cyanine variant http://www.srtl.co.uk/srtl/dvdinfo.html

Search harder come on.Really there is much better info arround in the open on the net that is. I will post some links as soon as I got more time.

Quote:

[*]All the various DVD brands I have all have the same purple color

I don't know what you use but depending on the brands it can all be the same pigment.

Quote:

[*]There's a post here in the forum somewhere (I'm trying to find it) talking about some Verbatim DVDs being TYs. The person also included a photo of the package and if you look carefully, you'll see that it has the Azo logo on it. As far as I know, TY does not manufacture Azo.[*]I also have MCC DVD+Rs that also have the Azo logo, but it's also the same purple color as the others.

No TY does not manufacture a Azo pigment. They just buy it from a large japanese companny. Which in the return sells disc's made with the TY MID but with there own pigment. (For the people who are still in the dark. Yes it's MCC !) So that MCC puts the AZO sign on TY manufactured media is completely true.

Quote:

If I put my conspiracy theory hat on, I think all the manufacturers are using the same basic dye technology but don't want to admit it

Close but not a cigar. Let me say this most manufacturers do not have there own dye technology or have a direct partner and buy there stuff from third parties. So does this mean that there is only one player on the market.
No that's not true. Also it's not the same technology. Completely different chemical structures. FUJI's OXONOL dye is not the same as MCC AZO dye.

Then the followeing stuff.

Let me say this MCC MID code can be licensed.

Arround 2 years ago TY was against code licensing so maybe the policy changed however I have my doubts. That's why I put up that part of Taiyo Yuden and if the code was legally used.

About MBIL FUJIFILM disc's have been spotted in India.
About Ricoh MBIL. Some made in india disc's from RICOH were spotted in Europe (Made in India ricoh branded 8x DVD+R media) while there is no official reaction yet from the side of RICOH. (And there's a good change we don't get it.) There is some information pointing to MBIL makeing these.

Quote:

And I still hope to get some media from MAM-E for testing, then we will see how quality and compatibility is...

Compatability is excellent if you (Ab)use a important japanese manufacturer code.

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Okane786 · 06-04-2005

Quote:

Search harder come on.Really there is much better info arround in the open on the net that is. I will post some links as soon as I got more time.

I'd appreciate you posting those links very much. I did spend a lot of time searching. LOTS of stuff out there that say the same thing on the different CD dyes. However, not much on DVDs. I'll be the first to admit that my search abilities stink

... Your reply did help, though, as I started using keywords like oxonol, etc and got more info now. Thanks...

Quote:

No TY does not manufacture a Azo pigment. They just buy it from a large japanese companny. Which in the return sells disc's made with the TY MID but with there own pigment. (For the people who are still in the dark. Yes it's MCC !) So that MCC puts the AZO sign on TY manufactured media is completely true.

Interesting... so that means when I buy TY discs, I'm getting the same Azo dye as if I bought Verbatim's? If there's a URL out there that goes into more details on stuff like this, please pass them on as I'm very interested. Thanks...

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*Gary Kokkin* · 07-04-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okane786

Interesting... so that means when I buy TY discs, I'm getting the same Azo dye as if I bought Verbatim's?

So if this valid......is it worth try finding buy TY anymore ?

I'm joking

This is always happened in business:
Every manafacturer look for co-operations with developments or trading firms to do business and make their plants to work.-This doesn't mean ,factories always do business with every one ,even them have "know how",or use others "know how" in every production .Usually all these happened as exception, with lincense,only for cost purposes or availability problems for some reasons.

*dakhaas* · 07-04-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Kokkin

So if this valid......is it worth try finding buy TY anymore ?

I'm joking

Yes it's still worth it.
Why because while TY might use the same pigment it seems that TY process setup and quality controle is better as most MCC partners.
Let me repeat what I have been saying for some time now.
DYE is not MID
And dye is just a parameter when it comes to quality. So even with the best dye's you can make crap media. Just use a old stamper. Spincoat your layers thick and uneven. Bond your disc's bad and you still get a nice coaster.

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cgkerns · 10-04-2005

This has to be one of the silliest threads I have ever read about anything. A disk mid is from the actual manufacturer in most cases. They are legitamately rebranding them. A mid may be say Sony and made by say Benq if Benq is using sony dies, quality control, specifications, etc. They are making them for Sony. Benq legitimately makes Sony discs for Sony and rebrands them for thier own DVD-R disks because they are using the Sony materials and standards. The mid's are legitimate. A number of companies make disks for other companies with their material and process and apply the mid for the other company. If you buy a know reputable company disk the mid reported is the makers. If it has another companies mid then it is rebranding. All of this is legal, ethical, and legitimate. So will people stop making up conspiracy theries. MAM-A makes their disks 24 hours a day in Colorado! The only US manufacturer that I know. MAM-A markets to serious archivers and medical users. As far a MAM-E I don't know much exept that they are marketed to the masses. I didn't explain this well but beleive me it is true and not another da...#! conspiracy!

MAM-E Mitsui DVD+R - Has anyone tested them yet?

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