Feeling Ripped Off

Went to Best Buy last night for some CD-R’s. Ran across a twin pack of Fujifilm 50 pack spindles for $26. These have the ivory screw-on nut and were manufactured in Japan (ie. Taiyo Yuden). Since they were rated at 40X speed I bought them. Go home, open them up and carefully examine the package. To my surprise, the 40X write speed rating was actually just an adhesive label covering the original 24X write speed. Is it just me, or does this smack of dishonesty? Anyway, I’ve uploaded a jpeg for your enjoyment.

http://www.boomspeed.com/ssrlouis/Fuji.jpg

hey, that is pretty weak. fiji or whoever manufactures the discs probably didnt even know that different dyes or whatever have to be used in order for one to burn at a higher speed. what i would do is take the discs back. thats some real shitty claim that the disc can burn at 40x. sure, you could probably select 40x in nero (if your burner supports), but if the media only can handle 24x, either somethin' is gunna go wrong or its only going to burn at 24x (but say its burning at 40x). peace.

as far as i know its genuine 40x media but they had an oversupply of 24x labels so instead of wasting them they put a sticker over them.

Check them - im sure they'll burn fine @ 40x

I got two packs of 50 at best buy, one for 2.99 with rebate and the other for 12.99. They burn at X40 on my PlexWriter 40/12/40U . Liked them so much I just got 200 more and mailed the 10$ rebate to freinds sence you could only get 10$ per house hold. But the disk work great

In the interest of dispelling harmful rumors:
The Fuji discs are genuine 40x media, regardless of the appearance of the package. They are NOT 24x media. If you run texts of the 2 media side by side, as I have, you will see a clear difference at 40x. Of course your own burner may be different than mine, but the error rates are very different here.
Why do people always assume the worst? It's the packaging that's being re-used, not the media.

Rumors huh?

Unless you can document your discoveries, please tell everyone that is just your opinion.

If you are going to acuse Fuji of mis-labeling media, it's you who should be providing evidence. Yes, i do have the scans that show they are, in fact 40x media, and burn much better at high speed than the 24x media. The TY media that is contained in those packages has been available for a couple months, and is currently rated 48x by TY.

ssrlouis, have you even tried them yet???!!

can you guys give me the product # for this fuji cd-r ?

my dad's going to US for a business trip soon so if i'm lucky i might be able to get him to buy me some CD-Rs

btw best buy are all over US right... he's going to be in the state of california..

Just tell him to get any Fuji 40x, make sure he knows the diff between audio and data CD's, Fuji makes both. Blue cake-box is very unmistakable. Yes, BB is all over the place, so far this is the only place where I've seen 40x Fuji.

At least I’ve posted a photo of Fuji’s double labeling practice….and may I ask what DOCUMENTATION have you provided? Since you appear to be a self-appointed Fuji know-it-all, please explain their date coding system. My patience is wearing thin, “put up or shut up”.

ssrlouis: This Fuji double labeling stuff is pretty well-known, but the discs are really higher speed ones. If you had pressed the SEARCH button before posting, you would have known that the media performs really differently than the lower-rated ones.

If you had pressed the same search button, you would have known about his WSES test, which is more than enough documentation. Also, there's no such thing as "their date-coding system", since they don't make the discs, and as such need no such system.

It's an old, old topic here, and you can see that any of the regulars will agree that they ARE different discs, and there is NO bigger proof possible than burn-comparison.

Suppose you have an overstock of 24x-labeled cakeboxes (and 24x discs aren't produced anymore), and a lot of 40x-discs. Do you toss the cakeboxes away? No, not even Kodak didn't do it in the 8 -> 12x era and Fuji hasn't, either, not 16->24 and not 24->40, you just relabel the boxes to reflect the new discs, it's VERY BAD to just toss away packaging like that.

If you still suspect anything after having seen the conclusive burn tests, then, I'm sorry, but there's nothing I (and probably anyone here) can do for you, as that's all the proof that can be offered without directly contacting Taiyo Yuden and asking if Fujifilm bought 40x discs from them.

It is easy to check the difference among Fuji 16X, 24X, and 40X discs with SmartBurn media checker if you own a Lite-on writer.

If you do not have a Lite-on, it is still possible to see those discs are physically different. Although they all have the same ATIP (97m 24s 01f), the sizes of these discs are different.
For the 16X discs, the size is 79m 59s 74f.
For the 24X discs, the size is 79m 59s 73f.
For the 40X discs, the size is 79m 59s 72f.

These sizes are taken from the three grades of Fuji discs I bought from CompUSA (16X, a long time ago) and Best Buy (24X and 40X, recently).

urrr.....

so what does 40x media mean to you??

any cdr thats packaged in a new 40X labeled container

or something that have very few errors after burning??

And btw, its pretty easy to document the statement rdgrimes made.

bump please.. somebody help me out..

just need the product # so my dad knows what he is looking for.. cause he isn't a tech-savvy dude.. and he ain't that up to date..

spinky,

Here is the link to Fuji discs on Best Buy's web site.

Better print out this picture, so you dad won't get the wrong discs.

spinky
Last time I checked, Circuit City was also selling
Fuji, as is Target. but B.B. is the only place I've seen 40x rated thus far.

I challenge anyone to produce real proof that Fuji’s 24x is indeed a 40 speed. Not conjecture, not opinions but real documentation to support your arguments (like I have). When this 100 pack was purchased at Best Buy, the (newest) bar code was scanned at check-out on the outer shrink wrap. Can you guess what the receipt printed?

http://www.boomspeed.com/ssrlouis/RECPT.jpg

BTW rdgrimes...STFU

I had some data, but I think I may have deleted it. I remember that for the 24x disks burnt at 40x, there were no C2 errors, but some C1 errors. The disks that were labled over the 24x with a 40x sticker had no C2 errors and considerably less C1 errors than the 24x.

Even if the 40x are indeed 24x, they will work fine at high speeds. C1 errors are much less significant than C2 errors. TY produce some of the best media in the business. Even if were truly 24x media, it's still a very good price. just like everyone else is saying, don't judge the speed by the rating or the printed words on a reciept. Test them out for yourself.

For the longest time, most 16x media was rated only 16x, but 90% of 16x media can be burnt at 24x perfectly fine when 24x drives came out. Just because the 24x standard wasn't given, doesn't mean the media wasn't capable. There just wasn't a way to test them at that speed at the time.

BTW, you need to learn to relax. TY is a great brand and Fuji is an honest reseller of TY. You'll meet your fare share of bad media that probably won't burn at its approved speed if you're not careful. But learn to live with that... I can assure you that TY won't be one of those brands to dissapoint you. Wait till you try some nice 40x CMC!!!!!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ssrlouis
[B]I challenge anyone to produce real proof that Fuji’s 24x is indeed a 40 speed. Not conjecture, not opinions but real

Well I just got the 40X Fujis and my receipt said X16

ATIP: 97m 24s 01f
Disc Manufacturer: Taiyo Yuden Company Ltd.
Reflective layer: Dye (Long strategy; e.g. Cyanine, Azo etc.)
Media type: CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity: 702.83MB (79m 59s 72f / LBA: 359847)


They Burn at X40
http://members.cox.net/sleepyone/best.jpg[/URL]

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Last edited by mitchel; 22-08-2002 at 18:26.

Since you do not feel up to doing your own research, I will provide some for you. Anyone with a LiteOn drive can duplicate these test results.

1) The most glaring difference between Fuji 24x and 40x media is not apparent unless you have a 48x drive. The evidence is provided by SmartBurn media checker, which you can download from LiteOn. Smartburn sees the 24x media as 40x, and the 40x media as 48x. Here are the read-outs, checked on my 48x drive:

24x Fuji:
This Disc is designed for CD-RW/COMBO Drive Only.
Disc Type, Material = CD-R, Cyanine
ATIP Lead-in = 97m 24s 01f
Norminal Capacity = 702.83MB (79m 59s 73f)
Disc Manufacturer maybe = Taiyoyuden,DX Dye
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 40X

40x Fuji:
This Disc is designed for CD-RW/COMBO Drive Only.
Disc Type, Material = CD-R, Cyanine
ATIP Lead-in = 97m 24s 01f
Norminal Capacity = 702.83MB (79m 59s 72f)
Disc Manufacturer maybe = Taiyoyuden,DX Dye
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 48X

Again, you can be forgiven for not seeing this if you do not have a 48x drive, but clearly SmartBurn sees 2 different media.

B) Lest you still remain unconvinced, there is more to consider. As several people have posted on the various threads, the error "fingerprint" of these 2 media is clearly different. You can see the evidence HERE
I suggest to you that you do some error scanning of your own to get familiar with the various media and how they perform. After you do a few dozen scans, you can start to see the "fingerprint" that the different media produce. These TY media are far and away the best i have seen, even the 24x will outperform most of the so-called 40x media out there. The 40x media are just rock-steady, disc after disc the same consistant results.

ssrlouis , you can, and will, do as you please, but I think you owe Fuji, and this forum, an appology.

BTW, anyone who has retail experience knows that most store sales receipts print out with whatever information was entered into the store's database for that particular bar code. The manufacturer has no control over this. The 24x and 40x media that i bought for this test BOTH printed out as Fuji 16x media on the receipt, and were also labeled as 16x on the little stickers that are posted on the shelf at Best Buy.

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Last edited by rdgrimes; 22-08-2002 at 23:49.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mitchel
[B]And I thought I got screwed…
Hey mitchel, ever heard of the adage “a day late and a dollar short”? Best Buy had the Fuji 100 pack for $25.99 with an $18 rebate which ended the 17th. So I guess my 8¢ a disk purchase ain’t so bad after all... especially when compared to the deal you got. And “yes”, I can DOCUMENT the rebate.

Looks like rdgrimes knows everything about Fuji media EXCEPT when they were made. But you can bet Fuji knows how old their product is…unfortunately, they won’t discuss production dates.

.ssrlouis, do you know? What possible relevance does this comment have to the question at hand?
Why are you so determined to feel "ripped-off"? Several people have shown you that the media in question are not 24x media. SmartBurn says they are different media, WSES says they are different media.
You ignore the evidence that has been presented. Unless you have some evidence of your own to support your silly claims, then it's you who should STFU. This thread is a real bore.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ssrlouis
[B]

And I thought I got screwed…
Hey mitchel, ever heard of the adage “a day late and a dollar short”? Best Buy had the Fuji 100 pack for $25.99 with an $18 rebate which ended the 17th. So I guess my 8¢ a disk purchase ain’t so bad after all... especially when compared to the deal you got. And “yes”, I can DOCUMENT the rebate.

And I thought you were ripped off

..... ........Fujifilm


Even at 12.99 its a nice buy, with only a 10$ rebate.
hmmm that makes yours ah 7.99 and the two I got around 6$.
Did I miss something?

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Last edited by mitchel; 23-08-2002 at 19:26.

Ripper off!!! The price we would have to pay for Fuji / TY in the UK - around £0.35 - £0.40 each!

Rip-off UK.