CDFreaks’ “first look” at DVD-R DL

**Jan70** · 18-05-2005

OC-Freak and I got the opportunity to play around with some Verbatim DVD-R DL media. So we though we would like to share a “1st look” article with you all.

You can find it here: http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/201

Feel free to comment the "1st look" in this thread.

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*agent009* · 18-05-2005

Looks good! They should consider selling this media

sweetnamja · 18-05-2005

the compatibility with standalones and some dvd drives look horrible~! its seems like it is worse the dvd+rDL. Maybe they should have made the booktype dvd-rom rather than dvd-r. Is there a reason why the dvd forum wouldn't have done this?

The write quality looks good but I think compatibility is probably more important.

*OC-Freak* · 18-05-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetnamja

the compatibility with standalones and some dvd drives look horrible~! its seems like it is worse the dvd+rDL. Maybe they should have made the booktype dvd-rom rather than dvd-r. Is there a reason why the dvd forum wouldn't have done this?

The write quality looks good but I think compatibility is probably more important.

Booktyping DVD-R media is not possible due to technical reasons.

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*Kenshin* · 18-05-2005

Thanks!

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*Kenshin* · 18-05-2005

http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/201

Hm. The article isn't accessible from this end. Maybe temporarily put offline?

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Bar81 · 19-05-2005

Looks like another nail in the coffin for the -R format. Several months behind +R in innovation and several generations behind in compatability. That standalone compatability is pitiful.

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*icey* · 19-05-2005

I keep hearing +R is taking over from -R, and I really like +r and have always used it - thing is, most on-line retailers stock better quality -r than +r - even some of those sponsored by CDFreaks and within the UK.

Ok, there is one place to get cheap Fuji TY +R x8 media (great stuff), but other than that you can find -r TY media in some places (one such place wants £0.94 / disc !) - but hardly any stock the +r variant. If +r really is taking over (long may it continue), and +r DL is ahead of -r, why is it so damn hard to find quality +r media, especially TY.

rugger · 19-05-2005

I find it very easy to get quality +R disks. CMC MAG E01, MCC 003, MCC 004, TDK 003, all pretty good and reliable disks.

vicenco · 19-05-2005

i think this is old news folks. I read about these media and show some scans almost 2 months ago

check this out: http://www.cdrinfo.com/forum/tm.asp?...=1&key=DVD%2DR

however, good job. looking forward to see some more tests in your article. strange that the LG4163 recognizes the disc as DVD-ROM, since it should recognize it as DVD-R

sweetnamja · 19-05-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by OC-Freak

Booktyping DVD-R media is not possible due to technical reasons.

I understand that dvd-r don't support booktyping. But are you saying that the dvd-rDL discs could not have been manufactured with a dvd-rom booktype?

*Kenshin* · 20-05-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetnamja

I understand that dvd-r don't support booktyping. But are you saying that the dvd-rDL discs could not have been manufactured with a dvd-rom booktype?

Same thing.

@vicenco

Perhaps because DVD-R DL is new. The drive properly read DVD-R DL as having DVD-R DL booktype.

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*Wesociety* · 23-05-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetnamja

But are you saying that the dvd-rDL discs could not have been manufactured with a dvd-rom booktype?

Of course it is possible, however the DVD Forum did not go that route when they developed the DVD-R DL specification. So you will never see a DVD-R DL disc with any other Book Type except DVD-R.

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*agent009* · 02-06-2005

Verbatim DVD-R DL is now available at newegg.com, $22 + $4 shipping for a 3-pack, and at chiefvalue.com, $17.50 + $4 shipping.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817507001
http://www.chiefvalue.com/app/produc...tem=17-507-001

Attached Images

17-507-001-01.jpg (14.5 KB, 803 views)

hatepocket · 01-07-2005

Great, I want to buy some for a try.

*code65536* · 09-07-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wesociety

Of course it is possible, however the DVD Forum did not go that route when they developed the DVD-R DL specification. So you will never see a DVD-R DL disc with any other Book Type except DVD-R.

Remember, DVD-ROM5 and DVD-ROM9 both share the same Book Type value, despite one being SL and one being DL. Whereas DVD+R and DVD+R DL differed in the Book Type, DVD-R and DVD-R DL differ in the Part Version (1.x for 3.95 GB, 2.x for 4.7 GB, and 3.x for 8.5 GB), so I'm guessing it's the new PV is what's tripping things up.

The problem with +R DL was that devices couldn't recognize the new Book Type value, and the problem with -R DL is that devices couldn't recognize the new Part Version value.

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*Mordorr* · 28-07-2005

Only now saw this tread..

My contribution on the first and only Burn with this media:

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.ph...postcount=1320

No problems around here and even my Philips 737 Divx player can read it

Good Burns!

rmtaibo · 08-10-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by code65536

The problem with +R DL was that devices couldn't recognize the new Book Type value, and the problem with -R DL is that devices couldn't recognize the new Part Version value.

That's true.

Any player capable of get a fw update can read any type of DVD bitsetting, but due to a DVD war stated by some manufacturers (as Panasonic and Toshiba) their players doesn't have specified the bitset for DVD5/9 +R/RW. Only most of players have specified to recognize the media as follows:

DVD-ROM (0000)
DVD-R (0010) for DVD5 and DVD9 both
DVD-RW (0011)

And are not programmed for

DVD+R (1010) (due to the format war or very old player)
DVD+RW (1001) (due to the format war or very old player)
DVD+R DL (1110) (due to the format war or very old player)
DVD+RW DL (1101) (due to the format war or very old player)
DVD-RAM (0001) (due to hardware limitations)

The player can fisically read all possible bitset, but it is not programmed to play all posible bitsets. If it can read the bitset zone, so is hardware capable of play the disc, but software RESTRICTED to play it.

Due to the "format war" Philips and HP created a DVD+R/W emulated as a DVD-ROM, so the player can identify it as a valid DVD-Forum format, and eliminated the pre-recorded bitsetting, allowing to the recorder write the bitset. This trick worked because the player recognize it as a DVD-ROM specs stated in the DVD forum.

That's why OC-Freak stated that bitset in DVD-R specs is not possible. (by now, but if the -R recorder is designed as a +R specs to write the bitset and eliminate the pre-recorded bitset in the media , so it will be possible)

Only players that can't read DVD-RW media can't read DVD+RW media.

If the player was programmed for that, so it can read it.

Theoretically any DVD player is capable of read ANY dvd type (DVD-ROM, DVD+-R/RW DL/SL, except DVD-RAM) if it has programmed the specification needed in the firmware.

The player reads or not the DVD recorded only if it has the quality needed to read it and if it was programmed to read the booktype.

Any player with a flashable firmware can read all types of DVD created (except DVD RAM) if their manufacturer program it. It's a firmware programming matter, not MEDIA matter...

Another problem is that if the player is programmed for DVD-R as 4.7 Gb as max capacity and found a larger capacity disc it will not play due to the firmware, but it is hardware capable. But the fw need to be modified...

That's why code65536 stated the DVD-R Part Versions (1.x for 3.95 GB, 2.x for 4.7 GB, and 3.x for 8.5 GB)

Burning media is another history... Totally different...
Same will happen with new format war BD and HD-DVD, a totally new incompatible formats

(sure the worst english you ever read)

_chef_ · 08-10-2005

And the new RW DL formats will bring even more trouble with them I fear.

ahab666 · 12-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetnamja

the compatibility with standalones and some dvd drives look horrible~! its seems like it is worse the dvd+rDL. Maybe they should have made the booktype dvd-rom rather than dvd-r. Is there a reason why the dvd forum wouldn't have done this?

The write quality looks good but I think compatibility is probably more important.

hi,

100% agree - the very bad standalone compatibility will be no help for making this and the other -R DUAL media very popular

. Maby there will be some cheap noname players in the near future but most/many/all ?? players older then lets say 6 months to a year (without firmware upgradebility) will fail. And with the start of Blue Ray Disks and HD-DVD the DVDR market will probably vanish slowley.

cheers - ahab666

_chef_ · 12-11-2005

The problems will grow rapidely with the availability of DL RW media. Argh.

rmtaibo · 12-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by _chef_

The problems will grow rapidely with the availability of DL RW media. Argh.

Chef:

When will RW DL be available?

If you have some links, I'd like to read something about this...

Heard that +RW DL format will be the first available...

_chef_ · 12-11-2005

I honestly don't know.
I'd hoped it would not be necessary. IMO it isn't very useful, it will create too much trouble...

aud19 · 05-12-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahab666

hi,

100% agree - the very bad standalone compatibility will be no help for making this and the other -R DUAL media very popular

. Maby there will be some cheap noname players in the near future but most/many/all ?? players older then lets say 6 months to a year (without firmware upgradebility) will fail. And with the start of Blue Ray Disks and HD-DVD the DVDR market will probably vanish slowley.

cheers - ahab666

I'm currently trying to figure out whether to get Verbatim DVD+R or -R DL discs now. Are you saying the +R DL media is better?

_chef_ · 06-12-2005

+DL media is not "better", it's just normally more compatible because the Booktype can be set to DVD-ROM.

CDFreaks’ “first look” at DVD-R DL

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