CD or DVD for archival photo storage?

tiger926 · 13-12-2007

I have just spent the past few hours reading through this website - tons of info here! I am a bit stumped though, as I have a newborn to take care of, and lots of research to do in regards to this topic: long-term photo storage.

If someone could be so kind as to assist me, so that my hubby knows what media to purchase for my Christmas gift, that would be great!

1. I am a big-time scrapbooker - tons of photos! I want archival, high quality media to save my photos to. Currently, I burn to TDK or Maxell bulk media that my hubby has picked up, as well as photos on laptop, external HDD and online storage.

2. Should I be burning to CD or DVD?

3. What brands do you recommend? I checked out blankmedia.ca as I'm Canadian, and I am overwhelmed by the choices!

4. How do I know in store if the media is good or not? I would be checking on Verbatim, as I think that's all that is available around here.

5. Is any media made in Japan good? It seems that Japan makes all of the high quality media.

Thanks in advance, Tiger

*THE C.* · 13-12-2007

VERBATIM is your answer if that is all you got to choose from. I myself buy what is on sale on major brands only, since you will be storing them for years to come. Congrads... on the the little one. If you have lots of pictures say like 5 Gigs then DVD would be the better choice if you have under 2 gigs, then cd would be a better choice for you.

**olyteddy** · 13-12-2007

I'd use CD for a couple of reasons. CDs are a more mature and simpler format that I believe would last longer and CDs full of JPEGS can be viewed on most stand alone DVD players, JPEG DVDs on fewer. For longevity it probably wouldn't hurt to back up on two different brands or types of media.

tiger926 · 13-12-2007

Thanks for your prompt reply. A few more questions, if you have the time:

1. I have a large (over 11,000 photos about 2-4 megs in size each) backup to do, and then I will be doing regular back-ups, so it sounds like CD may be a better choice?

2. Verbatim seems to be all that is available at stores around here, but can order online from blankmedia.ca, if other media would be better than Verbatim - what would you recommend? Are all Verbatim created equal?

3. With Verbatim, do I still have to re-burn them every few years, or, will they last longer?

4. You mention you buy 'major brands' - what major brands are you referring to?

Thanks so much, Tiger

*DrageMester* · 13-12-2007

1. There are some archival grade CD-R as well as DVD-R media, but such media is significantly more expensive than regular media.

Some suggestions from blankmedia.ca:

Verbatim Gold UltraLife 8x DVD-R

Verbatim UltraLife Gold Archival Grade CD-R

2. CD-R media is older technology which means that its longevity is more well known, but you can fit 6½ times more on DVD±R media and the top layer on DVD media is much more scratch resistant.

I save the most important stuff on both CD-R and DVD±R media, but the bulk stuff only on DVD±R.

3. I recommend Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden. There are also other good media, but no other brand (which still produce) where I would recommend all of their media. Even with these recommended brands, you can sometimes get poor discs when buying the inexpensive discs.

4. That's a difficult one; apart from choosing Verbatim, you'll have to read up on what's good and what's not so good - e.g. on this very forum.

5. Most media Made in Japan is good and most of it these days is manufactured by Taiyo Yuden. There have been examples of such media not being that great, and there are plenty of examples of media manufactured elsewhere in e.g. Taiwan or India that is just as good as the best Made in Japan stuff, so IMO you shouldn't blindly go for only the MIJ media.

If you want to have best chance of getting top notch media, buy some of the premium stuff from Verbatim, like e.g. UltraLife, or MediDisc - I've never heard of such media being bad, but it'll cost you.

If you can accept the risk of occasionally getting mediocre or poor discs, buy some of the regular stuff by Verbatim or Taiyo Yuden.

Or you can read up on experiences people have with particular media of other brands and then go for what seems to be good choices based on those experiences.

*DrageMester* · 13-12-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiger926

1. I have a large (over 11,000 photos about 2-4 megs in size each) backup to do, and then I will be doing regular back-ups, so it sounds like CD may be a better choice?

22-44 GigaBytes of data is IMO impractical to save on CD-R; I would use DVD±R for that amount of data.

Quote:

2. Verbatim seems to be all that is available at stores around here, but can order online from blankmedia.ca, if other media would be better than Verbatim - what would you recommend? Are all Verbatim created equal?

All Verbatim are not created equal; e.g. the UltraLife and MediDisc have better quality control than the regular-priced stuff, but even the regular Verbatim stuff is very good most of the time.

Quote:

3. With Verbatim, do I still have to re-burn them every few years, or, will they last longer?

If you take good care of your Verbatim discs they should last for many years. It's always a good idea to save important stuff on at least two different media of different types, e.g. on a Verbatim 8x DVD-R and a Taiyo Yuden 8x DVD+R or other combination where you are sure that the discs are independently manufactured (to protect yourself from burning on multiple discs from the same bad batch).

Quote:

4. You mention you buy 'major brands' - what major brands are you referring to?

In addition to Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden, I would recommend HP 8x/16x DVD-R and HP 8x DVD+R (but not HP 16x DVD+R) as good solid media.

tiger926 · 13-12-2007

DrageMester - Thanks so much for your thorough answers!

I checked with Staples & other office stores, as no one else around here seems to carry Verbatim, and they don't carry the archival ones that you mention. They carry Verbatim spindles and jewel cases - not sure if I should just buy one of these, or, order from blankmedia.ca?

RE: gold archival. I read many posts on here that say the gold archival media is not worth it, so is Verbatim using some new techonology with the Ultralife media that you mentioned? Not sure if this is worth the cost, or, if I should just use regular Verbatim media? If regular Verbatim media (how will I know if the ones at the store are ok?) is high quality, which it sounds like this is what you are saying, then I don't necessarily need the gold/archival media, do I?

What's a gal to do? My hubby may want to order from blankmedia.ca so that we can get both Verbatim and TY media.

Thanks so much, Tiger

*DrageMester* · 13-12-2007

Quote:

RE: gold archival. I read many posts on here that say the gold archival media is not worth it, so is Verbatim using some new techonology with the Ultralife media that you mentioned? Not sure if this is worth the cost, or, if I should just use regular Verbatim media? If regular Verbatim media (how will I know if the ones at the store are ok?) is high quality, which it sounds like this is what you are saying, then I don't necessarily need the gold/archival media, do I?

Is the Gold worth it? Hard to say but probably not. The (presumably) better quality control on the UltraLife and MediDisc (not available at blankmedia.ca) might be worth it - only you can decide if the added expense is worth it for getting media with (presumably) better quality control.

Only a small percentage of the media I use is UltraLife, MediDisc, HardCoat or similar premium stuff; the bulk of it is normal Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden media, but I do have to throw out discs occasionally when the result is not good enough for my taste.

tiger926 · 13-12-2007

Thanks!

In summary:

1. Gold may not be worth it as no one knows if these are truly archival or not?

2. Any Verbatim or TY media is good for my purposes. Do I need to look for certain package markings - currently, Staples.ca has a bunch of Verbatim media listed, but not sure what differences are?

3. Good to get 2 different suppliers just in case there is an issue with one of the batches.

4. DVD seems better for my purposes as I have large back-ups to do at first - what about the stability of DVDs as opposed to CDs?

Thanks so much for all of your awesome help - it also helps that the baby is napping as it's letting Momma do her research!

Tiger

**Arachne** · 13-12-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by olyteddy

I'd use CD for a couple of reasons. CDs are a more mature and simpler format that I believe would last longer and CDs full of JPEGS can be viewed on most stand alone DVD players, JPEG DVDs on fewer. For longevity it probably wouldn't hurt to back up on two different brands or types of media.

I would also add that TY media is good - Verbatim outsources their CDR productions to a few different companies.

Having said that, I keep three sets of archives on CDR and DVDR media. For the CDR, Verbatim (made by whoever) for one set, TY for another, and whatever I have to hand for the third (the 3rd set being for "Everyday use")

Regarding DVD, my choice would be Verbatim 16x +R at thge top of the list, followed by TY, followed by again whatever I can lay my hands on for the last set

*jubjubbird* · 13-12-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiger926

Thanks!
2. Any Verbatim or TY media is good for my purposes. Do I need to look for certain package markings - currently, Staples.ca has a bunch of Verbatim media listed, but not sure what differences are?

If you're looking at buying the Verbatims in store, look for Made In Taiwan (MIT) over Made In India (MII). The MIT's generally have less variance in quality

*jubjubbird* · 13-12-2007

Another question is what burner are you using. This will also help to determine what discs would be most suited to you.

tiger926 · 13-12-2007

1. Verbatim Made in Taiwan - Now, I'm more confused? I thought all Verbatim media was made in Japan. I have TDK and Maxell DVDs downstairs that my hubby bought that are Made in Taiwan, but I assumed they weren't any good. I'm confused?

2. Burner - Nec DVD +-RW ND 6650A (it's in my Dell laptop). Edited to add: I just found the media list for my burner on Nec.com. Interesting:

DVD +R = 1. Yuden 2. Mitsubishi/Verbatim
DVD -R = 1. Yuden 2. Sony 5. Mitsubish/Verbatim
DVD +R Double Layer = 1. Mitsubishi

What should I be burning my photos to DVD on: +R or -R? Thanks again, Tiger

*cd pirate* · 13-12-2007

Verbatim has always been primarily made in taiwan (it's also made other places though). If you get Made in Japan Verbatim, it's actually re-branded Taiyo Yuden. Make any sense?

Anyways, my advice is to get 8x -R Verbatim DVD. The -R 8x is stable, climatic tests and whatnot show it's very resistant to degrading. It also burns with low errors and is very compatible media with players etc.

If you want to play extra safe:

Buy Verbatim 8x -R (MCC02RG20)
AND
Taiyo Yuden 8x +R (T02)

CD-R is not worth it, you'll need hundreds of them lol. Plus DVD is more resistant. The top surface of CD-R contains the data layer. Scratch part of the label side (top) of a CD-R and it's goodbye charlie.

tiger926 · 13-12-2007

Thanks very much. We will be buying DVDs, some type of Verbatim and then maybe we'll order the TY media as well.

I read so much info today, that my head was spinning, and that is why I needed to post for clarification. Thanks for answering my questions!

Thanks so much to everyone for your help, my hubby and I really appreciate it, Tiger

**Arachne** · 13-12-2007

My personal preference is the Verbatim 16x +Rs (MCC004)...I just love them (or my burners do hehe)

...but I agree to go with 8x discs, hopefully you can still find some (online is the best place to look IMO).

Good plan of yours, Tiger

*RWP* · 14-12-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arachne

My personal preference is the Verbatim 16x +Rs (MCC004)...I just love them (or my burners do hehe)

...but I agree to go with 8x discs, hopefully you can still find some (online is the best place to look IMO).

Good plan of yours, Tiger

Are 8x discs being discontinued? There seems to be no shortage of 8x TY and Verbatim -R media in North America -- a couple years after 16x was introduced. Leads me to believe 8x is still in production although I have no info (except for a plentiful regional supply) to base that on...

**Arachne** · 14-12-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by RWP

Are 8x discs being discontinued? There seems to be no shortage of 8x TY and Verbatim -R media in North America -- a couple years after 16x was introduced. Leads me to believe 8x is still in production although I have no info (except for a plentiful regional supply) to base that on...

Hehe, over here (in the UK), it's all 16x stuff in B&M stores now for the most part. Only Verbies I ever see are 16x. I don't believe 8x stuff is being discontinued though, at least I never saw any definite statement to that effect.

Which is why I go online if I need 8x stuff

Looks like Tiger may be in luck if she's from North America though!

Narendil · 14-12-2007

MCC02RG20 8x DVD-R are very good and i have used them some
years ago without any probs. with Plextor 712 at 4x.

But take care to buying Verbatim! Now they are selling a lot
of crap. So, in a pack of DVD-R 8x you can get CMC MAG or
something worse. Therefore in the last year i have switched to
Taiyo Yuden.

Here i have another question. Is there some difference in longevity
and resistence between covered and uncovered discs of the same
type? For example, here there are two TYG02 types -

DVD-R 4.7GB Taiyo Yuden White Inkjet Fullsurface 8x
DVD-R47WPP600SK-8

DVD-R 4.7GB Taiyo Yuden 8x
DVD-R47ZZ100SB-8

I thing, covered discs should be better protected again UV or light
in general, or?

*Two Degrees* · 14-12-2007

8x Verbatim with a CMC media code? That's the first I've heard of this.

**Arachne** · 14-12-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Two Degrees

8x Verbatim with a CMC media code? That's the first I've heard of this.

Pearl Whites? Only in Europe though IIRC (dunno where Narendil hails from...).

*Two Degrees* · 14-12-2007

Forgot about the Pearl Whites. I do think Narendil's remark about Verbatim selling a lot of crap is a bit exaggerated, as Veratim's 16x media is MCC and TY only.

*cd pirate* · 14-12-2007

Never heard of CMC MAG in Verbatim 8x discs. Even if that was true, the disc would be good since CMC MAG AE1 and E01 are great IMO.

tiger926 · 14-12-2007

Thanks everyone - my hubby and I are going shopping for new DVDs this weekend. I'll repost and let you know what we are able to find. I am a bit nervous now about getting yucky Verbatim DVDs, so I'm going to print this off and take your info with me to the store.

Happy holidays, Tiger

**Arachne** · 14-12-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by cd pirate

Never heard of CMC MAG in Verbatim 8x discs. Even if that was true, the disc would be good since CMC MAG AE1 and E01 are great IMO.

You wouldn't have seen them I don't think, being in Oz. Europe only for the Pearl Whites I believe (Geno seems to be the Pearl White guy and could probably tell you more hehe).

13-12-2007	#1
tiger926 New on Forum Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 13	CD or DVD for archival photo storage? I have just spent the past few hours reading through this website - tons of info here! I am a bit stumped though, as I have a newborn to take care of, and lots of research to do in regards to this topic: long-term photo storage. If someone could be so kind as to assist me, so that my hubby knows what media to purchase for my Christmas gift, that would be great! 1. I am a big-time scrapbooker - tons of photos! I want archival, high quality media to save my photos to. Currently, I burn to TDK or Maxell bulk media that my hubby has picked up, as well as photos on laptop, external HDD and online storage. 2. Should I be burning to CD or DVD? 3. What brands do you recommend? I checked out blankmedia.ca as I'm Canadian, and I am overwhelmed by the choices! 4. How do I know in store if the media is good or not? I would be checking on Verbatim, as I think that's all that is available around here. 5. Is any media made in Japan good? It seems that Japan makes all of the high quality media. Thanks in advance, Tiger

13-12-2007	#2
THE C. MyCE Resident Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,515	Re: CD or DVD for archival photo storage? VERBATIM is your answer if that is all you got to choose from. I myself buy what is on sale on major brands only, since you will be storing them for years to come. Congrads... on the the little one. If you have lots of pictures say like 5 Gigs then DVD would be the better choice if you have under 2 gigs, then cd would be a better choice for you. __________________ Dell 17R, Windows 7 Ultimate x64, Intel i5 Core (460M), Western Digtial 750GB (Scorpio Black) H.D., 8GB RAM (PC10700), 900p LED HD Display (1600x900) display, 1GB Nvidia Card, Hitachi GBW-10N 6x BD/CD/DVD-RW, SRS Premium Sound System! PC#2: Dell Inspiron 1525 Notebook, OS: Windows 7 Ultimate x64, Intel Core 2 Duo T5450, 4GB (PC5300) RAM, 256MB ATI Video Card, 640GB Western Digital HD, PBDS DVD-+RW. Other Equipment: 1 Pioneer DVR-112D External Drive, 4 External Pioneer DVR-116D Drives, 1 CopyStar Duplicator With ASUS DVDE616A3 DVDRomDrive and 2 Pioneer DVR-116D mounted in it, Mapower enclosure with 2 1TB Western Digital H.D., Mapower enclosure with 2 750GB Seagate HD's, 1 Lacie 2TB 2Big Quadra unit, 8TB MediaSonic ProBox, 2 2TB Western Digital Element drives for backup, and Logitech Pro speaker system!

13-12-2007	#3
olyteddy Senior Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In the present, the past was so long ago... Posts: 6,569	Re: CD or DVD for archival photo storage? I'd use CD for a couple of reasons. CDs are a more mature and simpler format that I believe would last longer and CDs full of JPEGS can be viewed on most stand alone DVD players, JPEG DVDs on fewer. For longevity it probably wouldn't hurt to back up on two different brands or types of media.

13-12-2007	#4
tiger926 New on Forum Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 13	Re: CD or DVD for archival photo storage? Thanks for your prompt reply. A few more questions, if you have the time: 1. I have a large (over 11,000 photos about 2-4 megs in size each) backup to do, and then I will be doing regular back-ups, so it sounds like CD may be a better choice? 2. Verbatim seems to be all that is available at stores around here, but can order online from blankmedia.ca, if other media would be better than Verbatim - what would you recommend? Are all Verbatim created equal? 3. With Verbatim, do I still have to re-burn them every few years, or, will they last longer? 4. You mention you buy 'major brands' - what major brands are you referring to? Thanks so much, Tiger

13-12-2007	#5
DrageMester Retired Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Honah Lee Posts: 19,887	Re: CD or DVD for archival photo storage? 1. There are some archival grade CD-R as well as DVD-R media, but such media is significantly more expensive than regular media. Some suggestions from blankmedia.ca: Verbatim Gold UltraLife 8x DVD-R Verbatim UltraLife Gold Archival Grade CD-R 2. CD-R media is older technology which means that its longevity is more well known, but you can fit 6½ times more on DVD±R media and the top layer on DVD media is much more scratch resistant. I save the most important stuff on both CD-R and DVD±R media, but the bulk stuff only on DVD±R. 3. I recommend Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden. There are also other good media, but no other brand (which still produce) where I would recommend all of their media. Even with these recommended brands, you can sometimes get poor discs when buying the inexpensive discs. 4. That's a difficult one; apart from choosing Verbatim, you'll have to read up on what's good and what's not so good - e.g. on this very forum. 5. Most media Made in Japan is good and most of it these days is manufactured by Taiyo Yuden. There have been examples of such media not being that great, and there are plenty of examples of media manufactured elsewhere in e.g. Taiwan or India that is just as good as the best Made in Japan stuff, so IMO you shouldn't blindly go for only the MIJ media. If you want to have best chance of getting top notch media, buy some of the premium stuff from Verbatim, like e.g. UltraLife, or MediDisc - I've never heard of such media being bad, but it'll cost you. If you can accept the risk of occasionally getting mediocre or poor discs, buy some of the regular stuff by Verbatim or Taiyo Yuden. Or you can read up on experiences people have with particular media of other brands and then go for what seems to be good choices based on those experiences. __________________ Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

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13-12-2007	#12
jubjubbird MyCE Resident Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: UK Posts: 2,600	Re: CD or DVD for archival photo storage? Another question is what burner are you using. This will also help to determine what discs would be most suited to you. __________________ Lite-On iHAS524 Lite-On iHAS324 Plextor PX755A Pioneer DVR-217F Optiarc AD-7200S BenQ 1650 (USB) On the Shelf - Pioneer DVR-216L, Pioneer DVR-215L, Plextor PX760A (Very sick!), BenQ 1650, Lite-On 160P6S, Lite-On 20A3P, Lite-On iHAS422, Optiarc 7170S, Samsung SH-W162C

13-12-2007	#14
cd pirate MyCE Resident Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 3,294	Re: CD or DVD for archival photo storage? Verbatim has always been primarily made in taiwan (it's also made other places though). If you get Made in Japan Verbatim, it's actually re-branded Taiyo Yuden. Make any sense? Anyways, my advice is to get 8x -R Verbatim DVD. The -R 8x is stable, climatic tests and whatnot show it's very resistant to degrading. It also burns with low errors and is very compatible media with players etc. If you want to play extra safe: Buy Verbatim 8x -R (MCC02RG20) AND Taiyo Yuden 8x +R (T02) CD-R is not worth it, you'll need hundreds of them lol. Plus DVD is more resistant. The top surface of CD-R contains the data layer. Scratch part of the label side (top) of a CD-R and it's goodbye charlie. __________________ Best DVD media: Verbatim MCC002 4x DVD+R Verbatim MCC02RG20 8x DVD-R DATASTREAM BRANDED CMC MAG E01 8x DVD+R Verbatim MCC04 & MCC03RG20 16x DVD +-R Ritek G05 media = My writers: BenQ 1620 (thanks to terminalvelocd!), BenQ DW1800 x 2, LG 4167B, LG H22N, Pioneer 106D, Pioneer 109, Pioneer 111L.

13-12-2007	#16
Arachne Senior Administrator & Reviewer Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tabby Towers, West of England Posts: 33,774	Re: CD or DVD for archival photo storage? My personal preference is the Verbatim 16x +Rs (MCC004)...I just love them (or my burners do hehe) ...but I agree to go with 8x discs, hopefully you can still find some (online is the best place to look IMO). Good plan of yours, Tiger __________________ Current drives: Samsung SE-S084C (TS02) + Samsung SH-S223F (SB03 RPC1 + other goodies) + TSST (Samsung) TS-H653F (DW10) + Samsung SH-S203N (SB02 RPC1 + other goodies) + Optiarc AD-5170S (1.12) + Litey LH-20A1H (LL0D) + Samsung SH-S182D (SB06 RPC1) x2 + LG E10N (JE07) + BenQ DW1650 (BCDC) + BenQ DW1640@164B (BEFB) + LG 4167B (DL13 TDB) + NEC ND-4551A (1.Z2) + LG GCE-8520B (1.00) + LiteOn SOHR-5239S (2S0B) Retired: LiteOn LDW-851@SOHW-832 + LiteOn SOHW-1693S + LG 4163B + Pioneer DVR-115D My Review PCs How to delete your upper and lower filters : How to check/enable DMA by Womble Click here to join MyCE.com and be part of our friendly community! Smile...people will wonder what you're up to

14-12-2007	#19
Narendil CD Freaks Rookie Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 30	Re: CD or DVD for archival photo storage? MCC02RG20 8x DVD-R are very good and i have used them some years ago without any probs. with Plextor 712 at 4x. But take care to buying Verbatim! Now they are selling a lot of crap. So, in a pack of DVD-R 8x you can get CMC MAG or something worse. Therefore in the last year i have switched to Taiyo Yuden. Here i have another question. Is there some difference in longevity and resistence between covered and uncovered discs of the same type? For example, here there are two TYG02 types - DVD-R 4.7GB Taiyo Yuden White Inkjet Fullsurface 8x DVD-R47WPP600SK-8 DVD-R 4.7GB Taiyo Yuden 8x DVD-R47ZZ100SB-8 I thing, covered discs should be better protected again UV or light in general, or?

14-12-2007	#20
Two Degrees MyCE Resident Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Surrounded by granite in North GA Posts: 5,925	Re: CD or DVD for archival photo storage? 8x Verbatim with a CMC media code? That's the first I've heard of this.

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