Old 04-05-2003   #1
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Need guidance removing/reducing sound of scratches from LPs before burning

I apologize if I am wasting the time of more experienced burners. I have tried searching for this topic but have not been successful (probably due to my own ineptitude in phrasing my query).
I am using Nero 5.5.9.4 (bundled) on my Athlon XP 2200+ machine to capture analog recordings from phonograph records and burn them onto CDs. (I also have a copy of Sound Forge 6.0 (build 132) available, altho I have not learned how to use it.)
I would like to use either of these products to eliminate or reduce the sound of the occasional surface scratch from my LPs. However, despite reading the Help files, I have been unable to determine which utility bundled with these two products to use ... or how to use it.
I am looking forward to your advice and consider myself lucky to have located your forum. Thanks to all. /bill
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Old 04-05-2003   #2
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Nero Wave Editor, and the built-in filters in track properties in Nero, can do some things for you, but I'd suggest downloading Furio if you are serious about doing audio.
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Old 04-05-2003   #3
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Just one thing: be careful with Nero if you cut the music in several WAVs (to make the tracks) and you need seamless tracks/perfect pauses.
Nero will chop up to 13 thousands of a second from the end of the WAV file, if the length of the WAV is not a multiple of a CD-DA sector (588 samples). (Feurio doesn't have this problem if you select "Do not insert silence between tracks").

If you divide the big WAV into several WAVs, use CDWave to cut in sector boundaries.
Or simply don't make several WAVs.

For noise reduction, I have no idea what is better, but Sound Forge should be good for that task. (Feurio has no tool for that but EAC does).

http://www.delback.co.uk/lp-cdr.htm

Last edited by minix; 05-05-2003 at 02:30.
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Old 04-05-2003   #4
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I have done quite a bit of analog (vinyl) to cd. From my preamp I go into an Audigy I (rca line-in on front of case) and use a program called "DCArt32" Audio Restoration Tools by "Enhancedaudio" to get the file into the hdd, but i'm sure the Sound Forge will do the same. I don't know what features SoundForge has, but I do the following:
I use the fade in/ fade out feature to remove any noise before and after the actual audio tracks. I then use the Impulse noise filter which removes transient noise (pops, clicks, ticks and crackle), I don't know if Sound Forge has a similar feature. This one is nice as you can adjust the threshold, size, and tracking of the filter. It works much better than the filters built into some burning programs. It also has about 15 other filters but I usually don't use more than that (less is better). I then use Feurio! to burn the wav files.
The final result is Nice
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Old 05-05-2003   #5
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Hey, great help in this thread everone
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Old 05-05-2003   #6
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Re: Need guidance removing/reducing sound of scratches from LPs before burning

Quote:
Originally posted by reikibill2002
I would like to use either of these products to eliminate or reduce the sound of the occasional surface scratch from my LPs. However, despite reading the Help files, I have been unable to determine which utility bundled with these two products to use ... or how to use it.

@reikibill2002

Hopefully this might give you a clue. At least everything is now shown here, just try playing with this stuff.

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@FutureProof,

TIA !
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Old 05-05-2003   #7
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Re: Re: Need guidance removing/reducing sound of scratches from LPs before burning

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Originally posted by BoSkin

@FutureProof,

TIA !
You're too grown-up for a tummy rub from the likes of me
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Old 05-05-2003   #8
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Re: Re: Re: Need guidance removing/reducing sound of scratches from LPs before burning

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Originally posted by FutureProof
You're too grown-up for a tummy rub from the likes of me
Which means to me that the other ones aren't too grown-ups ?
Or is it just me who have been excluded from the tummy rubbing ?

Anyway, thanks for your good-will gesture - right on my very birthday !
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Last edited by BoSkin; 05-05-2003 at 10:09.
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Old 27-05-2003   #9
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to add a question:

since i stumbled on to this very imformative thread i ask this:

i am in a trading group (rolling stones boots- audience recordings and lots of studio outtakes) anyhow the oldtimers use .shn too much for my liking but heres the question.

i get a shn disc extratc using mkwshn which seems to be the standard but either way the app used will extract the shn (lossless) to wav files.
so burning it to disc shouldn't be an issue for nero since they are "exact" copies of original from cd/cdr, they are wavs but wavs of the original cd so there shouldn't be the issue with sector boundaries.

i use cool edit pro 2.1 which allows one to set the boundaries for splitting wavs but don't need it for above just that the question of nero adding to wavs in the "burning" process has me wondering or am i mistaken?
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Old 28-05-2003   #10
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I have used Stienburg's Wave Lab to take my US verions of Early Beatles LP's to cd.
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Old 28-05-2003   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sorondil
I have used Stienburg's Wave Lab
Steinberg, that is.
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Old 04-06-2003   #12
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I've done quite a bit of vinyl-to-Cd transfer and find one of the best cleanup apps to be CoolEdit Pro.

Version 2.0 can be a bit troublesome in XP, but the 2.1 upgrade fixes this (and improves the program quite a bit, too.)

For capturing from the disc, I use CD-Wav (a small shareware from Holland -- had it for years) - it's dead easy to use and runs on anything (I have an older machine in the back room that's more-or-less dedicated to file capture of various kinds -- has a tape deck, radio tuner and turntable permanently connected and a removable HD so that captured files can be readily transferred to the main unit for editing.)

I'll describe the basics of my method, which seems to work rather well.

Best way with vinyl is to use Cd-Wav to capture an entire side -- don't attempt to split it.

When capturing, make sure your recording volume isn't overly high -- doesn't matter if its relatively low (CoolEdit can easily fix this), but too high will introduce distortion and getting THAT out is hell's delight!.

Then load the whole track into CoolEdit -- if it's an average vinyl side you should be quite able to see the gaps beween tracks, and you'll also see quite a bit of garbage that you'll want to get rid of (turntable rumble, tape hiss, scratches and other glitches -- a short listen to the first number is usually enough to give you an idea of what's what.)

Don't attempt to do any editing of this track, just select the first song (place cursor at the bginning and shift-click in the space between the first two songs.)

Cut (Ctl-X) the selection, open a second iteration of CoolEdit (Ctl-N) and paste (Ctl-V) the song into it.

Now you can get down to business. Almost all your work from here on will be from the 'Effects' menu -- you can ignore most of the fancy bits.

First, normalise the song (Effects - Amplify - Normalise) -- I generally use a value of 98% for music.

Next, take out all the easily removed defects such as turntable rumble, tape hiss and what-have-you (some computer-soundcard combinations will introduce a whine, you take this out here as well).

Select a period of silence -- as long as possible -- from the inter-song gap -- easiest way is to select a short bit at either end of the song, enlarge it and select silence from this (you don't want to pick up ANY of the song itself.)

Now open Effects - Noise Reduction - Noise Reduction.

In the dialog box, select 'Get Profile From Selection' - OK.

Now exit the dialog, deselect the period of silence and return the display to the full track.

Now re-enter the Noise Reduction dialog and click OK.

When this finishes, I usually run Normalise again.

Now listen to your song -- often that will be all you need do, but frequently there will be unacceptable clicks and pops that need further treatment.

Here you'll use Noise Reduction again, but this time select the first option (Click and Pop Remover).

Here you have several options -- you can get a profile from the entire track and run it, which often works very well (experiment here) and for really stubborn noises you can select the actual point and choose 'Remove Single Click Now', which in version 2.1 is pure magic!.

When satisfied, save your file in the normal way and select 'close'.

You'll be returned to the first instance of CoolEdit, where you can repeat the above on the next song -- working through until the disc side is finished.

This way you don't have to worry about splitting a disc side at all -- it's automatic and you don't need HD space for intermediate files.

There's lots more CoolEdit can do, of course, but this should get most users up and running.

Sound Forge and others work in a similar manner, but my experience has mostly been with CoolEdit, which I've used on-and-off for several years.

Hope this helps some of you.
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Old 04-06-2003   #13
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thank you all for the info

copied thread to my hdd.......i guess i will be transfering lp->cd this winter.
WIll be needing this.

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Old 04-02-2005   #14
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Re: Need guidance removing/reducing sound of scratches from LPs before burning

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Originally Posted by BoSkin

@reikibill2002

Hopefully this might give you a clue. At least everything is now shown here, just try playing with this stuff.

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@FutureProof,

TIA !
I have Sound Forge 7 but I do not see the Vinyl Restoration plugin. Where do I get/download this?

Thanks.
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