Old 09-05-2007   #1
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Format USB drive as CDFS

I am looking for a tool that will allow me to format my USB thumb drive in CDFS format. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Thanks,
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Old 09-05-2007   #2
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Re: Format In CDFS

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssdmedia
I am looking for a tool that will allow me to format my USB thumb drive in CDFS format. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Thanks,
CDFS is not really a file system at all. It is a method of representing the tracks
on an audio CD as files. Give us more info. What are you trying to do and why?
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Old 09-05-2007   #3
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Re: Format In CDFS

I have a program I want to run from a USB drive. I have a sample of one that does this very thing and I want to do it with my software. There is a small partition that is in CDFS format and the rest is in FAT. The CDFS format autoruns in a windows system and that is what I am wanting to do. Have the ability to create a partition on a USB drive and have a windows based PC see it as CDFS.
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Old 09-05-2007   #4
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Re: Format In CDFS

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssdmedia
I have a program I want to run from a USB drive. I have a sample of one that does this very thing and I want to do it with my software. There is a small partition that is in CDFS format and the rest is in FAT. The CDFS format autoruns in a windows system and that is what I am wanting to do. Have the ability to create a partition on a USB drive and have a windows based PC see it as CDFS.
I still haven't got my head around exactly what you want to do.
Maybe you want to put an ISO9660 file system on a USB stick?
That would be a strange thing to do because ISO9660 is a
read only file system. If I was to attempt it, I would use mkisofs
on linux to make the ISO9660 image and Linux dd to dump the
image to the USB stick.

I'm too tired to attempt such a thing tonight. I might have a go
at it tomorrow, just for fun
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Old 09-05-2007   #5
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Re: Format In CDFS

This is what I am wanting to do but all I have is Windows. Is there a way to do this type of thing on a windows box?
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Old 09-05-2007   #6
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Re: Format In CDFS

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssdmedia
This is what I am wanting to do but all I have is Windows. Is there a way to do this type of thing on a windows box?
Very likely. I'm sure you could use Nero or other CD/DVD burning
software to make the image. I'm not sure what you would use to
dump it on to the USB stick.
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Old 09-05-2007   #7
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Re: Format In CDFS

Anyway. I just made a 350MB ish ISO9660 image to see if I
could burn it to a USB stick. The result is quite interesting.
When I plug the USB stick into my PC, it is automatically
mounted as a CD-ROM. This proves that it is at least
possible. This picture shows my Desktop after I plugged
the stick in. I find it very strange to see a memory stick
mounted as a CD-ROM
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Old 09-05-2007   #8
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Re: Format In CDFS

Sorry to cut and run ssdmedia, but it is getting late on this side of the
rock. I will be interested to see how you get on with your project.
GN for now.

BTW, Welcome to the forum
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Old 09-05-2007   #9
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Re: Format In CDFS

Thank you so much for the info, All I need to know now is what I can use to DUMP it on to the stick. The image file should be easy to do in Nero. I will have to run a few tests myself but I have never used Image files. I guess it would not be as simple as right click "Copy" -> right click "Paste". lol

Thanks so much for your help. I will go read up on Linux dd to see what it is, that might help.

This forum is cool, I think I will like it here. I don't know what I can add to it yet but I will give it a go.

Thanks again skelton.
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Old 09-05-2007   #10
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Re: Format In CDFS

I found dd for windows. What string did you use to dump the data to the USB drive if you don't mind me asking.

Thanks again!
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Old 09-05-2007   #11
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Re: Format In CDFS

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssdmedia
I found dd for windows. What string did you use to dump the data to the USB drive if you don't mind me asking.
dd if=test.iso of=/dev/sdb

test.iso is the ISO image file and /dev/sdb is the device name
for the memory stick. Make sure that you don't specify
the wrong device. Overwriting several hundred sectors
of your hard disc would make a horrible mess of
your system!
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Old 09-05-2007   #12
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Re: Format In CDFS

Oh yea it would. I was up all night with Windows dd and got all that worked out in terms of what drive is what using the dd --list but when I attempted to dump the files all it did was made the drive unreadable and I needed to format the disk again. I must have formatted the darn thing 20 or 30 times. I always used bs=2048 though so I will have to try tonight when I get back and see what I come up with when I do not use the bs. It should not matter from what I understand from the notes. Skelton, if you have any suggestions for me on this it would be great. In the Windows version of dd you can rename dd.exe to dd-removable.exe and it will only deal with the removable drives so that is kinda cool.

Thanks again,
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Old 09-05-2007   #13
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Re: Format In CDFS

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssdmedia
I must have formatted the darn thing 20 or 30 times.
You shouldn't need to format it, or at least you shouldn't need to format
the area of the USB drive where the ISO image will be stored. The
ISO image is a file system in it's own right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssdmedia
Skelton, if you have any suggestions for me on this it would be great.
Apart from that test last night, I have never tried to write an
ISO9660 image to a USB pendrive before. It is a pretty strange
and funky thing to do! As you know, data CDs have 2048 bytes
per sector (more for audio CD and VCD). The linux kernel treats
my 512MB stick as a block device with 512 bytes per sector. I
assume Windows does the same.

There are all kinds of complications you could run into.
Apart from the different block size, there is the issue of
partitioning. Should you write the image to an unpartitioned
USB stick or should you write the image to a partition?
If you do write to a partition, what type of partition
should you use? I don't think there is any recognised partion
ID for ISO9660. Should the partition be flagged as bootable?

Perhaps you would fare better with UDF. At least it is a
read/write file system.

I know from experience with booting from USB memory
sticks that PC BIOS and USB controllers can be quite
fussy about the configuration of the USB device. A given
configuration might work perfectly with one PC and not
with another. This could mean that your USB stick is
not very portable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssdmedia
I always used bs=2048 though so I will have to try tonight when I get back and see what I come up with when I do not use the bs.

In the Windows version of dd you can rename dd.exe to dd-removable.exe and it will only deal with the removable drives so that is kinda cool.

Thanks again,
With the Linux version, if you don't specify the block size,
it defaults to 512.

Last night's test was to an unpartitioned USB stick. I will
try dumping the image to a partition tonight. More soon....
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Old 10-05-2007   #14
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Re: Format In CDFS

I have no way to unpartition my drive using the windows interface that I am aware of so I will have to look at some tools for that. FDisk is not on the XP box that I am aware of, I will have to hunt it down or something that will work.

Your test worked on a nonpartitioned drive, mine failed many times over on a partitioned drive so I would say your method is better.

I know very little about CDFS and less of UDF but I have heard of it. I need a Windows system to see the USB drive as a CD drive so that the auto run feature works to run our software. Our software is set up to only run from CD so you can not run it from FAT, FAT32 or NTFS but I don't know about UDF. We don't want to stop someone from removing our software from their USB drive but we do want to stop them from moving it to there HD. Our software allows our customers to distribute optical meida and reauthor that media after it has been distributed. We use a WYSIWYG web based interface that controls the reauthoring of the media. As you can guess there is great potential for a product that provides this type of functionality. Getting it to CD is not an issue but the USB thing would be great.

The one demo version I have the CDFS partition is marked as Active but I do not think it is bootable. In fact I am almost sure it is not since my system lock up on boot when it was in place. Though my system locks up on boot with any USB divice plugged in to that port.

Your help is priceless, thank you so much.
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Old 10-05-2007   #15
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Re: Format In CDFS

Sorry to create a new post for an update but I did not have the edit option.

I found a new program called gparted located at
http://gparted.sourceforge.net/

If you want to partition a USB drive this program is great.

You burn the iso image to a CD and boot from it. It seems to build a linux shell that runs there program. From there I was able to edit the partitions of all the usb drives on the system. When I am done messing with it on this last drive I am working on I will attempt to move my iso to it using dd for windows and see if that works.

Thanks again for all your help.
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Old 11-05-2007   #16
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Re: Format In CDFS

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssdmedia
I have no way to unpartition my drive using the windows interface that I am aware of so I will have to look at some tools for that. FDisk is not on the XP box that I am aware of, I will have to hunt it down or something that will work.
I haven't used DOS fdisk for many years. I can remember having
problems trying to delete non DOS/Windows partitions. I'm
starting to sound like a mad Linux advocate now, but the
Linux version of fdisk is a lot better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssdmedia
Your test worked on a nonpartitioned drive, mine failed many times over on a partitioned drive so I would say your method is better.
I did that test with a partitioned drive and it worked perfectly.
As there seems to be no standard partition ID hex code for
ISO9660 or UDF file systems, I just used partition type
'b' (W95 FAT32). I also tried several other partition types
selected at random. I was always able to mount and read
the drive regardless of the partition type.

For the next test, I formated the USB stick with a UDF
file system. This worked fine in my Linux box. I tried
doing this test both ways, first on an unpartitioned pendrive
and then on a partition. It worked fine both ways and unlike
the ISO9660 system, I was able to write to it.

Finally, I plugged the memory stick into a Windows-XP PC.
The Windows machine was unable to mount the pendrive.
It was also unable to reformat it! This is not surprising really
since it doesn't expect to find a CD file system on a pendrive

There are several different revisions of UDF. I only tried
the default version generated by mkudffs. Some of the
other versions might work differently. The UDF system
was on a FAT32 partition which might have caused
problems. I will try a few different options when I have
more time to spare.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ssdmedia
I need a Windows system to see the USB drive as a CD drive so that the auto run feature works to run our software.
I remember that rather dangerous feature! I wonder if is available
in Vista?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssdmedia
The one demo version I have the CDFS partition is marked as Active but I do not think it is bootable. In fact I am almost sure it is not since my system lock up on boot when it was in place. Though my system locks up on boot with any USB divice plugged in to that port.

Your help is priceless, thank you so much.
I don't think there is any such animal as a CDFS partition. When you
look at the 'demo version' with Gparted, how many partitions can
you see and what is the hex code for the partition types?
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Old 11-05-2007   #17
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Re: Format In CDFS

Quote:
Originally Posted by skelton
I don't think there is any such animal as a CDFS partition. When you look at the 'demo version' with Gparted, how many partitions can
you see and what is the hex code for the partition types?
Well one of the things I found out about Gparted is that if you have a partition using CDFS then it does not see it. The demo only shows the normal partition. That is what my issue is with the 18mb of space I lost after I dd the iso to it. I can't delete it now that it sees it as the CD file system yet Windows can see it but it does not see it as a CD, in fact I can't even format that section of the partition though I see it.

I will have to check out mkudffs again. I don't remember why I moved away from that when you talked about it the first time.

Kind of frustrating, I have been working on doing this for over 2 months, I finally find someone who understands and can even do it but I can't replicate it. lol
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Old 11-05-2007   #18
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Re: Format In CDFS

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssdmedia
Well one of the things I found out about Gparted is that if you have a partition using CDFS then it does not see it. The demo only shows the normal partition. That is what my issue is with the 18mb of space I lost after I dd the iso to it. I can't delete it now that it sees it as the CD file system yet Windows can see it but it does not see it as a CD, in fact I can't even format that section of the partition though I see it.
It is possible and even quite likely that the ISO9660 file system
is not on a partition. (note that I refuse to call it CDFS). You may
find that it is stored on an unpartitioned area of the drive. That
would explain why Gparted can't see it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssdmedia
Kind of frustrating, I have been working on doing this for over 2 months, I finally find someone who understands and can even do it but I can't replicate it. lol
Don't be so foolish as to think that I know more than you
do about this subject. I do find it interesting though.
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Old 11-05-2007   #19
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Re: Format In CDFS

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssdmedia
I found a new program called gparted located at
http://gparted.sourceforge.net/
The live CD is more than just a program. Start up a terminal and
run "uname -a". This will tell you what you are really running
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Old 11-05-2007   #20
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Re: Format In CDFS

Your so funny. I realized it was linux and from your last post I went right to fdisk and you are so right. There is much more to the Linux fdisk then there was to Windows.

Now from what I understand about partitioning your CHS is what tells the system what size your drive is, for the most part. On the usb drive I have that I dd the iso file to the settings for my CHS have changed. Using test disk and/or fdisk in Linux I can change that information back and write it to the partition table. My understanding of this would be that I have just repartitioned the drive using the new CHS settings yet I can not get that 18-20 mb back.

Am I way off base here on this? I still have not tried mkudffs, I have been tied up with work and my day today is packed so I don't know if I will be able to get to it today but I am going to try like heck. There should be a way to wipe out all partitions, no matter what type. When it comes down to it there is X amount of space on the drive and somehow, someway, you have to be able to reclaime that space and clear it off then write new partition information to the drive. Right?
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Old 11-05-2007   #21
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Re: Format In CDFS

Well I got my space back so I feel better about that. I used testDisk to do it but after I did it Gparted did not see the size right and Windows does. The drive seems to run fine though at first Window saw it as an NFTS partition rather than a b (win95 fat 32) partition and did not show the additional space in Explorer. Once I reformated in Windows it then saw all the space.

I will have to go in later do what you did using LiveCD since it has dd in it as well. Although when I use dd --help there is so much on the sceen that it scrolls past the top part of the help info. I dont get anything from skip down in the list. I will have to hunt down a site with the Linux commands, they are not the same as the Windows commands. Found that out when --list did not work to show me the partitions.

Live CD is great for anyone who needs the power of disk access where Windows "protects" there users. This iso I will keep in my toolbox for a long time I can assure you.
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Old 12-05-2007   #22
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Re: Format In CDFS

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssdmedia
I can not get that 18-20 mb back.
If you really want to wipe it clean, you can use dd and
/dev/zero to overwrite it. /dev/zero is a sort of virtual
device which generates an endless stream of zeros.

You already know the syntax:
dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdx where x is the device
name for your usb memory stick. Mine is sdb because
my SATA hard-drive is sda. A small mistake here
would be very unfortunate.

This command will overwrite every byte of every
sector with zero. This will blow away the boot
sector and the partition map, leaving you with
a blank unpartitioned pendrive (or hard-drive
if you are not careful).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dd_(Unix)
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Old 12-05-2007   #23
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Re: Format In CDFS

Man does this bite. I have tried for hours now to get this to work. It does not seem that there is mkudffs for windows so I found a program that I know for sure is a 9660 iso program. Well it does a bunch more but I unchecked everything else for now. At this point, other than mkudffs, I am using the same tools you are and having no luck so I hope my iso is just not a 9660 iso file.

I feel like I am running out of options here. I have done it with no partiion, a partion, fat, fat 32, and NTFS and when I plug the drive in, nothing happens. The best I get is a drive with the cdimage.iso file on it when I stick it in a Windows box. Any ideas what I might be doing wrong?

dd if=/dev/hda6 of=/dev/sdb1

That is what used when I got the iso file to show up in windows but once again, it's an iso file and not the program. When i tried...
dd if=/dev/hda6/cdimage.iso of=/dev/sdb1
I get /dev/hda6/cdimage.iso is not a directory.

Thanks,
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Old 12-05-2007   #24
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Re: Format In CDFS

Quote:
Originally Posted by skelton
I did that test with a partitioned drive and it worked perfectly.
As there seems to be no standard partition ID hex code for
ISO9660 or UDF file systems, I just used partition type
'b' (W95 FAT32). I also tried several other partition types
selected at random. I was always able to mount and read
the drive regardless of the partition type.
Where these tests done on a Windows Box when they mounted on their own?
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Old 12-05-2007   #25
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Re: Format In CDFS

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssdmedia
Where these tests done on a Windows Box when they mounted on their own?
No. See post #16 above.
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