Old 28-10-2012   #1
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Windows 8 apps: A few things to be aware of

The new user interface in Windows 8 is built around applications that do not run on the traditional desktop. Microsoft intends for their customers to use these new apps as the primary focus of their computing life, and to be able to do this on a wide variety of hardware. Allowing continued use of the desktop was a necessity in this "bridge" operating system, but clearly, Microsoft sees the new UI as the future of computer use.

This change from a relatively open desktop computing experience to one in a controlled, closed garden is a huge step, one that needs to be emphasized in its importance. Microsoft has complete control over what is offered to you in the Microsoft Store. And this store is the only source for applications to run in the new "Metro" UI.

I was looking through the Terms of Service that you must agree to when purchasing, or even downloading a free app from their store. There are some disturbing items in there. First off, you must sign up for a Microsoft account to get anything from the store. And this account must be used regularly to remain viable. If you do not use your account within one year, it can be deactivated, with ill effects on getting updates to any software you may have purchased.

The next thing that jumps out at me in the service terms is the limited nature of your purchases. You are buying a license to use the software, and may only install it on 5 devices at a time (as a general rule). If you try to install it on more, one or more of the installations will be removed automatically. Now, this isn't too different from software eula's we've seen in the past, where you are limited in the number of installations, but having one removed involuntarily and randomly is something new.

Up next is data collection by Microsoft. They reserve the right to collect information when you use the store. To quote the terms, "we may collect certain information about service performance, your service use and your use of your Windows 8 system. ... The Windows 8 system means the device running Windows, any software on that device and any devices or software communicating with that device." (Emphasis mine) They also state that they will share this information:
Quote:
We use the information collected to enable the features you're using or provide the services you request. We also use it to improve our products and services. In order to help provide our services, we occasionally provide information to other companies that work on our behalf. Only companies who have a business need to use the information are provided access to them. These companies are required to keep this information confidential and are prohibited from using it for any other purpose.
Now comes one of the more disturbing parts. Microsoft can remove apps for any reason, and not only from the store, but from whichever device you have installed them. If you have purchased such an app and have it removed, they may reimburse you for the original price you paid for the program. If you have any data stored in the app and it is deleted, Microsoft says they are not responsible for this data loss. It is your responsibility to back up any data.

And of course, Microsoft reserves the right to change the Terms of Service at any time, for any reason. If you do not agree to said changes at a future date, your access to the store can be shut off.

Lets sit back and think about this change in the software environment for a bit. You're buying and using software that can be revoked involuntarily. This may not be a common event in the future, but it is a profound difference from what we've seen in home computers over the last 30 years.

My advice is to be very careful what apps you buy from the Microsoft Store. I personally will use Windows 8 from the desktop the vast majority of the time.

Last edited by Kerry56; 28-10-2012 at 22:30.
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Old 28-10-2012   #2
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That sounds ominous indeed and it seems that Microsoft are using the Apps store as a back door way of enforcing other agendas.


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Old 28-10-2012   #3
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You made many good points. I have a Windows Phone (v7.5) and I will not own another one. IMO, Windows 8 is Microsoft's move to turn Windows into a highly controlled OS where they control many aspects of how the user utilizes their computers. I won't have anything to do with helping them accomplish their goal. The Windows phone I have is as, or even more, proprietary than an Apple phone.

I tried Windows 8 a few months ago and immediately disliked it. I think the backlash against Windows 8 will be far greater than the backlash against Vista. Anyone that is comfortable with the older versions will find Windows 8 a very frustrating experience. I think there will be some major back tracking when the first Service Pack is released.

This would be a great time for a desktop version of Android to hit the market.
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Old 29-10-2012   #4
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So if you don't need to get any app your account can be closed??? That's a blackmail... you have to buy something forcibly at least once at year???
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Old 29-10-2012   #5
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Originally Posted by geno888 View Post
So if you don't need to get any app your account can be closed??? That's a blackmail... you have to buy something forcibly at least once at year???
They can close my windows live mail id I will not use it to purchase an app and if they think I am buying anything from the windows store they are sadly mistaken.
I will not use it or do I even want to all I want is the desktop, M$ again shows their arrogance instead of being consumer friendly and it is going to cost MS a lot of lost sales a stupid way to go about trying to compete with apple store google store ect.

MS will loose money on windows 8 and I only use a local account not MS live they can have it.
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Old 30-10-2012   #6
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I don't think that MS means you have to purchase any apps, only to look in on the apps store from time to time.
In any case, many apps are free. The Sky News app is excellent IMO, and the Windows 8 toolbox app is also very nice.
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Old 30-10-2012   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UTR View Post
You made many good points. I have a Windows Phone (v7.5) and I will not own another one. IMO, Windows 8 is Microsoft's move to turn Windows into a highly controlled OS where they control many aspects of how the user utilizes their computers. I won't have anything to do with helping them accomplish their goal. *The Windows phone I have is as, or even more, proprietary than an Apple phone.

I tried Windows 8 a few months ago and immediately disliked it. I think the backlash against Windows 8 will be far greater than the backlash against Vista. Anyone that is comfortable with the older versions will find Windows 8 a very frustrating experience. I think there will be some major back tracking when the first Service Pack is released.

This would be a great time for a desktop version of Android to hit the market.
Hi
Interesting post.

Are you not worried about Google/Android taking similar steps to Microsoft in the foreseeable future?

Until recently I had HTC Desire HD & Samsung Galaxy SII.
I have now replaced both with Nokia Windows phones.
The 710(work) & 800(personal).
I prefer these & they certainly suit my uses much more than Android ever did.
Am looking forward to having a 820 next week.

*Can't see how you reach this conclusion.
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Old 31-10-2012   #8
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Well, isn't that common for other "appstores", eh?
I'm sort of concerned about this Metro thing. There's no other option of installing software but Windows Store on MS Surface devices (ARM versions which run Windows RT).

Assuming that Microsoft sees Metro as the main vector of interface experience, who can be sure whether in next versions of Windows will be a total app installation lock-in around this Store? Hell.
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Old 01-11-2012   #9
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Originally Posted by zebadee View Post
Hi
Interesting post.

Are you not worried about Google/Android taking similar steps to Microsoft in the foreseeable future?
I can only go on what is reality today. Android gives far more user control than Windows which is what I am looking for in a smart phone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zebadee View Post
Until recently I had HTC Desire HD & Samsung Galaxy SII.
I have now replaced both with Nokia Windows phones.
The 710(work) & 800(personal).
I prefer these & they certainly suit my uses much more than Android ever did.
Am looking forward to having a 820 next week.
I have a Nokia 900 Lumia and I really don't have any complaints about the hardware or the Nokia specific software. It is the MS OS that I don't like. There are some aspects of it that are fine but MS has become control freaks like Apple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zebadee View Post
*Can't see how you reach this conclusion.
I can tell you how I came to this conclusion.

One, MS has total control over the apps I can use. If they don't want me to have it then I will not have it.

Two, MS makes me use the idiotic Zune software to interface with the phone. It sucks, plain and simple.

Three, MS will not allow the phone to show up as a device under Windows Explorer or My Computer. Just more signs of the control freak nature of the OS.

Four, there is no option of a memory card slot. This is more control freak behavior. I would like to store a good amount of video and music on my phone but can't without a card slot.

Five, my phone (and my wife's phone) freezes up quite often. Sometimes it passes in a minute. Other times it takes several minutes. I can't access anything and it will not let me shut the phone down in any way. Since the battery isn't easily accessible, removing the battery isn't an option. I guess MS needed to make sure the Windows Phone version of the "blue screen of death" was built into this OS too.

I can some up with more reasons but these are my top five.
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Old 10-12-2012   #10
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MS OS complaints?

I agree with some of these complaints - see my comments in red below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UTR View Post
I can only go on what is reality today. Android gives far more user control than Windows which is what I am looking for in a smart phone.



I have a Nokia 900 Lumia and I really don't have any complaints about the hardware or the Nokia specific software. It is the MS OS that I don't like. There are some aspects of it that are fine but MS has become control freaks like Apple.



I can tell you how I came to this conclusion.

One, MS has total control over the apps I can use. If they don't want me to have it then I will not have it. Isn't this true about Apple too? At least, Microsoft allows different hardware vendors to manufacture phones with their software, which is more than I can say for Apple. Having said this, I would like to see more freedom for installing Apps too. My last phone ran Windows mobile 6.5, and there were many 3rd party programs that I could install, just as I can in Windows 8 (desktop).

Two, MS makes me use the idiotic Zune software to interface with the phone. It sucks, plain and simple. I have used the Zune software for 3 years in my MP3 player, and now in my Lumia 710. Do not see what you do not like about it. Works fine for me.

Three, MS will not allow the phone to show up as a device under Windows Explorer or My Computer. Just more signs of the control freak nature of the OS. I agree with this - my ZUNE HD has the same problem.

Four, there is no option of a memory card slot. This is more control freak behavior. I would like to store a good amount of video and music on my phone but can't without a card slot. WP 8 phones do have a memory card slot option - up to 64GB.

Five, my phone (and my wife's phone) freezes up quite often. Sometimes it passes in a minute. Other times it takes several minutes. I can't access anything and it will not let me shut the phone down in any way. Since the battery isn't easily accessible, removing the battery isn't an option. I guess MS needed to make sure the Windows Phone version of the "blue screen of death" was built into this OS too. I guess each phone is different. My Lumia 710 has yet to freeze up, and the battery is easily accessible.

I can some up with more reasons but these are my top five.
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Old 11-12-2012   #11
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Isn't this true about Apple too? At least, Microsoft allows different hardware vendors to manufacture phones with their software, which is more than I can say for Apple. Having said this, I would like to see more freedom for installing Apps too. My last phone ran Windows mobile 6.5, and there were many 3rd party programs that I could install, just as I can in Windows 8 (desktop).

MS had one shot with me and they have blown it. I have no desire to have another one after this experience. I should have bought an Android phone from the start. Apple was never a consideration for me.

I have used the Zune software for 3 years in my MP3 player, and now in my Lumia 710. Do not see what you do not like about it. Works fine for me.

You just gave the reason why Zune is terrible software to interface a smart phone. It was written to interface with MP3 players. Using Zune to interface with a smart phone is one of the biggest reasons the MS phone OS will fail, IMO.

WP 8 phones do have a memory card slot option - up to 64GB.

The Lumia 920 will not have one. This is the phone that MS is backing in a big way.

I guess each phone is different. My Lumia 710 has yet to freeze up, and the battery is easily accessible.

If just one of our phones was freezing up I might not think much about it. Since both do the same thing regularly I see it as a a design flaw in the hardware and/or OS. My bet is on the OS as I think Nokia makes some great mobile phones.
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Old 12-12-2012   #12
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@Kerry56

Windows 8 causes baldness.

About user data collection by Microsoft, we used to call that spyware. We "used" to install programs to find it and remove it. Looks like M$ found ways to get around all that. They made you agree, and give up your rights, when you got the live account, (how much info did you give them, at that point, do you even remember?). You gave them all your personal info when you used a credit card to buy Xbox games and ofcourse more points for whatever. Gee, they got your real name, address, phone number, social security number, and an ip address that goes with it all, etc., etc, etc., and probably even your mothers maden name. The worst part is now they can associate everything about you, with all you internet surfing habbits, what you buy, etc., and sell all the info if they want to, (have you noticed a little bit of a lag while surfing, not much, but more than what you had in Win 7, remember?). Haven't used you credit card with them, your lucky or smart, most of the rest of us did. Excuse me, now I'm putting my head in my hands and pulling out big hunks of hair with both hands, ...now I'm totally bald.
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Old 12-12-2012   #13
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Kerry's original discussion about the future uses (abuses, mis-uses and controls) that MS is delivering with Win8 is still the curious part. What DO they think they're going to accomplish?

Complete control over a computer user? Well, completely SPENDING control and MONEY control, probably.

This UI's castrating goal over usability is clearly a dumbing-down and elimination of so many services - mostly keyboard related, too.

It's like interviewing everyone on a telephone and asking them, "Are you using the keyboard as we speak?" No.

"Ah ha! So the keyboard is no longer useful!!"

Du-uh.

I'm waiting for folks on this forum to start ONLY delivering messages via smart-phones and Win8 touch-screens.

(Don't ya love those Microsoft Surface TV ads where everyone's dancing around synchonized, flopping open their devices, looking gleefully at them? And not ONE person is accomplishing anything productive. "Type some code - go ahead - run the compiler - fix the errors in the log file. TRY IT!")
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Old 12-12-2012   #14
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Sorry didn't mean to imply that I thought anything was wrong with what Kerry56 had to say (I agree with him 100%).
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Old 08-01-2013   #15
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[QUOTE=ChristineBCW;2668617]Kerry's original discussion about the future uses (abuses, mis-uses and controls) that MS is delivering with Win8 is still the curious part. What DO they think they're going to accomplish?




The main purpose of this they know whether you have genuine Windows 8 or pirate one which in latter case they can disable your O/S with no solution to prevail.
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