ND-3500A - external enclosure wars

From Beach-Hobo:

As you can see, getting 16X from a DVD drive externally is not as easy as you think. It took me between 3-4 months to get the Prolific PL-3507 working correctly.

As far as Oxford 911, both the high priced cases (Belkin & ADS) companies don't care. I personally think they know about the problem and will not address it. Oxford also refuses to return EMails. From what I have gone thru, "I will never BUY an OXFORD again" !!!

I hope they read the forums !!!

Okay, after much searching, I have actually found a version of the java uloader that will allow you to change the UDMA on master and slave!!!!
http://www.byteccusa.com/download/me-350f.zip
Go into the "patch file need for firewire"
Unzip the tar file.
However, you need to grab win_uploader_dll.dll from normal 1.64 Oxford updatergui.
There is an updatergui and an uploadergui. The uploadergui is the one that will allow you to fix the configuration.... I haven't try it yet, but I am going to tonight.

Please, use this at your OWN RISK!!!!!
I am also maxing out at 13MB on my enclosure... I really need to get this up.... hope it works....

Minchin,
Please us know on how this update goes ???
I still have the Belkin (911) Case and would love to use it !!!

As you know, I've gotten the PL-3507 to finally work right with 9/7/2004 firmware...

Regards,
B-H

Well, I have been trying it for the last 2-3 hours trying various combination of options.... still stuck at 13MB.... checked using CDSpeed's burst rate.... top out at around 10x in read graph...
I think like others have pointed out, it is the bridgeboard that you are using.....

I should clarify my earlier post. As minchin mentioned there appears to be a Java Updater and a Java Uploader version of the Oxford Utility. The Java Uploader allowed me to access and change settings on my enclosure, but it is an older version and does not have the Enable ATAPI UDMA setting available. The link I provided turns out to be the Java Updater (version 1.64) which only allows an update of the firmware, the Settings button is not available (greyed out). I tried Minchin's download (BTW, you know this file is for a Mac, right?). Since it's Java based it might work on Windows. What the heck. I tried to run the program two different ways. First I copied win_uploader_dll.dll into the same folder as the Mac Uploader folder. Program wouldn't even start- Fatal Exception Error. Then I copied the Mac uploadergui.jar into the Java Updater 1.64 folder. Same result. Is the program even working for you Minchin? The search continues...

Well the good news is I finally found a a full copy of the Windows Java Uploader 1.64 that allows you to change all the settings including the most important one, Enable ATAPI UDMA. It can be found here:

http://www.wiebetech.com/FW107.zip

The bad news is it has not changed the performance of my external enclosure, as confirmed by DVD Speed. Still stuck at 10x (13MB/sec), even after trying several variations of options. Maybe someone else will have better luck. Give it a try.

It worked for me. It was just a Java application, so I just copied the dll from 1.64 and it worked. After untaring the file, you should see the 2 jar files. I just place the win_uploader_dll.dll in the same directory as the jar...

The enclosure also do 'remember' the setting for the 'Enable ATAPI to use UDMA'... therefore I assumed that it worked.

I tried the 911ATAPI firmware and it screw up the bridgeboard completely.... luckily after a quick reboot, the uploader found it to be a blank device and I was able to flash the firmware in again.

I tried turning off DMA and PIO as I suspect that the drive was stuck in DMA mode (is there a way to find out?) Then the drive transfer rate slow down to 3MB! I have this strong suspicion that it is either stuck in DMA2 mode or something even with the option enable. I also tried to set the device as CD/DVD-ROM to no effect whatsoever

I have a few other firewire box that I just found out was also Oxford911, but they are Firewire only boxes. I suspect that the USB2 chipset might be affecting the bridge-boards overall performance. USB2 was never able to achieve over say 17-18MB (12x or so).... If I have time, I will swap out the drives (I have HDs in those firewire only boxes) to see if it makes any diff....

@Beach-Hobo,
I re-read the whole thread again... you mentioned that you were able to use the 911ATAPI firmware on your exclosure? I did that and it just screw it up.... Please let me know if you did get that to work at all in your enclosure.... I would like to try again and see if that firmware makes any diff....

@Minchin,
I know I tried it and it also didn't work. But I don't recall it screwing up my case. One of the settings dealing with "mounting" did. Had to do a forced load by grounding out pin xx.

So you haven't been able to get over 13MB/s yet ???

@Minchin
I pretty much got the same results you did, trying different combinations of the settings along with some of them resulting in a 3MB/s transfer rate. I've given up and ordered an enclosure with a Prolific chipset. Now if Beach-hobo would be kind enough to share his new beta September firmware for the Prolific enclosures....

Hi Guys,
I would be happy to share the 9/7/2004 Prolific Firmware and loader. I would be happly to send it to someone who would HOST it on this SITE. I don't have any hosting available to me...
Regards,
B-H

P.S. This is not BETA but a official release to one of the case makers !!!

Send it to me, I will make it available. I am going to PM you my email address....
BTW, tried the 911ATAPI firmware again, each time I did that, the enclosure becomes not visible. I was fortunately enought to be able to reflash it without having to short anything.
I haven't got the time to try my 911 firewire only boxes yet. Howeve this one combo box, I too have given up.

BTW, I got one of the deal from Computergeeks that include a Teac 8x drive (rebadge Liteon 812s) and a external combo enclosure for $74 shipped. The box is really cheappy box (I really won't have bought it if it were not a special price). This box comes with the Initio 1430L chipset for firewire.... Did a CDSpeed burst rate, it came to 29MB!!!! Figuring in the price of the box, the drive comes out to be around $30.... going to flash it to become a Litey.....
I will let you guys know if I can get the firewire only box work or not.... or I would probably just junk this box and get a Prolific based box too like you guys....

hello,

does anybody know if enclosures with genesys logic chipset 811E will hit 16x? my old one only had a 811 without udma support, hit max. 10x ...

I tried getting a Firewire 800 external enclosure to work to get 16X. THe chipset is the new Oxford USB2.0/FW800. The crappy thing is, the ND-3500A is the ONLY drive it fails to work with. Hard drives, other CD drives all work. I can't get the ND-3500A to be recognized (or even funciton at all) either through the firewire interface or USB2.0.

I was wondering if anyone had this problem.

It's a Oxford 922 chipset and it is like the unit pictured in the following URL.

http://www.firewire-1394.com/tt-5-25...-usb-2-kit.htm

I actually order one of those 922 bridgeboard to convert my old SCSI case, but for some strange reason, it won't get recognized by system. I am ordering a new cable to see if that would help.... I can get the USB2 port to work, but it won't recognize over my firewire port with a 6pin to 9 pin biligual cable and a 4pin to 9 pin biligual cable....

What firewire chipset are you running this on? I have a VIA base firewire 1394a card that does not seem to work.... Do you find that its performance is much better than 23-29MB/s? $99 is quite a bit of money to spend on a case.... I haven't tried it on other firewire cards htat I have... Do you use a native 1394b card for that?

Back to the point.... try to use the Uploader utility(use the FW107.zip one, seems to be latest)..... Use modify config -> advance. Check Detect Non-Std signature, Wait 6s and Enable ATAPI UDMA on Master.... see if that helps....

My laptop i tried is a Texas Instruments OHCI complient, as far as the driver is concerned.

I don't actually have a firewire 800 interface yet (PCcard). I figured since I couldn't get the ND-3500A to work on 3 different firewire computers, with just the 400mpbs interface, why wast money to get a 800mbps card until I can figure out why every other IDE device EXCEPT the Nec will work in the damn thing.

I suspect the enclosure/firmware/oxford 922 as the culprit. but then again, maybe there is some small incompatibility that was over looked in the ND-3500A. I have tried multiple cables, and USB2.0 will not work either, so it has to be the drive, or the enclosure which is causing the problem.

I'll try the utility when I get home. Where can it be found?

what software can i use to measure the speed of my external enclosure?

Check earlier post.... the link is http://www.wiebetech.com/FW107.zip

Use CDSpeed's burst rate (F6) to test it....

@Minchin

I installed a hard drive in the Belkin and than the ADS Enclosure. The Firewire transfer was 27MB/s and 21MB/s on USB2.

Therfore the Oxford 911 can run at speed with hard drives. Installed NEC 3500 and LiteOn 1633 and ONCE AGAIN maximum transfer rate was 13MB/s.

This was after using the NEW UpLoader 1.64 with the ADAPI DVD to use UltraDMA (check box).

Two of the most expensive cases and they S**K !!!!!

One might wonder if there is an issue with the ND-3500A. Do these enclosures blow smoke for all DVD burners I wonder?

If I can get the Oxfrod 922 guy going, I'll post some benchmarks to see if it's any better.

I tested the drive (AOpen 1648/AAP dvd-rom in an ByTecc ME-320 usb 2 ext. case) running on Windows XP SP2 and the bust rate is 22 MB (attached image) and the speed test maxed out at 11x or so for store bought dual layer DVD. Why can't I get higher than 11x reading??? anything I can do to increase it? Is my burst rate is low?

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Last edited by randomwalk101; 29-10-2004 at 01:48.

I tried LiteOn 812s (Sold as Teac 8x), Pioneer 108 too... also stuck at 13MB... therefore, it seems that for ATAPI devices, it is unable to use UDMA at all....
I have double check that the cable is an 80pin too....
Oh well, my case was 2-3 years old already.... bought it when itwas like $100!!!
@randomwalk101, most of the transfer rate tests you see in reviews are for reading SINGLE layer DVDs. When they quote the max speed, they are talking about single layer. What you are getting is actually pretty good I think....

Does anybody think this enclosure would work. Pcmicrostore gives you the option of getting this enclosure if you buy the nec 3500 from them and packages it in it.

CLICK HERE

Does anybody think the enclosure would allow me to burn a dvd at 16x? Also from the looks of it the enclosure is USB. One would think that they would not package the drive in the enclosure if it doesnt burn at 16x. Here is a link where you can get the drive and the enclosure. CLICK HERE

I just tried it with a single layer, non-encrypted DVD and this is what I got...

Sorry for taking so long... if you need the Prolifc Firmware that Beach-Hobo mentioned, download it from:
http://www.ahgogo.net/ProlificFirmware.zip

Enjoy