Weird SSD Score

mrloren · 09-06-2012

This is weird!

I got a Kingston Hyper X 90GB SSD yesterday for my thing PC and it is very fast. The Windows splash doesn't even come together on boot. So I run a bench mark tool and this is almost 1/2 the score my M4 gets but this thing is faster than that. The PC is as fast as my PC but the low scores do bother me a bit. I did Sean's guide for SSD drive on both of my PC's and changed SATA cables. It is hooked into SATA3 port 0 (nice white one) Any ideas? Should I try a different benchmark tool? If so which one?

**Dee** · 10-06-2012

That's about in the ball park for a SandForce based SF-2281 SSD at that capacity.
Remember the smaller capacity drives are slower than the higher capacity drives.

For SF-2281 based SSDs, the 240GB drives are the fastest.

**olyteddy** · 10-06-2012

Are you using it as a boot drive? You only get the really high scores on data drives.

mrloren · 10-06-2012

Yes it is a boot drive.

It does get a 7.9 Windows score and it boots faster than my PC. The windows splash screen does not even come together It's post BAM windows, the rest of the PC operation is on par with my PC.

Funny, when I pulled the two old drives out after hours of backing them up I thought they were 2006 era drives. the 160 was from 2004 and the 320 was from 2005. Why I never upgraded the HDD I will never know. Now it's a fast little box good for a few more years.

PC_User · 13-06-2012

that's not bad for that test , again it depends how full the drive is. you can try
CrystalDiskMark on 0 fill for sandforce and it will get a little better score
CrystalDiskMark 3.0.1c [2012/02/12] http://crystalmark.info/download/index-e.html

**Wombler** · 13-06-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dee

That's about in the ball park for a SandForce based SF-2281 SSD at that capacity.
Remember the smaller capacity drives are slower than the higher capacity drives.

For SF-2281 based SSDs, the 240GB drives are the fastest.

Out of curiosity Dee, why are the smaller ones slower?

Wombler

**Dee** · 14-06-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wombler

Out of curiosity Dee, why are the smaller ones slower?

Wombler

NAND density.

Take a the SandForce SF2281 controller, it has eight channels to access the NAND array. Notice I say array, as an SSD is like several HDDs in RAID 0.

NAND is quite slow, for example 133MB/s per die, but if you can run the dies in parallel, and use all eight channels of the controller you get higher throughput. So let's say you have 16 NAND dies on a 240GB SandForce SF2281 based SSD, then you can make sure all 8 channels are utilised more or less all of the time. The data is stripped across several dies, just like it would be in an HDD RAID 0 array.

You also have several NAND dies stacked on a single NAND chip, and again you can use greater parallelism.

In smaller capacity SSDs you have less NAND chips, and perhaps less stacked NAND dies. You could still have the same performance as the higher capacity SSDs, but this would cost more, and the SSD would no longer be competitively priced.

It's a bit more complex than this, but in essence, that is why lower capacity SSD are generally slower than their higher capacity counterparts.

Different controllers have different sweet spots.
SandForce SF2281 is 240GB
Marvell is 256GB and 512GB
Samsung is 256GB (i think)
Everest and Everest 2 is 512GB, but by employing a rather clever FTL (Flash Translation Layer), the latest Vertex 4 for example is quite close between the capacities.

**Wombler** · 20-06-2012

Sorry for the delay in responding Dee but that's a wonderful explanation.

I've another question though and apologies in advance if this is obvious query to someone in the know.

As capacities rise in the future, possibly into the multi GB zone, how scalable is this effect?

Or in other words will we see a bottleneck develop beyond a certain size where the channels become fully saturated?

Wombler

**Dee** · 20-06-2012

The limits at the moment is the speed of the NAND itself.
Late this year or early next year ONFI3 NAND should start to appear, with a max data transfer rate of 400MB/s. When that appears the bottle neck will be the SSD controller, and of course SATA 3.

I have a feeling that with ONFI3 NAND, things may even themselves out across the different capacities. We'll have to wait and see.

**Wombler** · 20-06-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dee

We'll have to wait and see.

Indeed, and that's all very interesting to know.

Wombler

*AllanDeGroot* · 27-06-2012

Ok so more dies in the SSD makes them faster provided you have a die for each available channel on the controller (unless/until) someone comes up with a controller with more channels)...

and until then there is a limit on "larger" (beyond what size?)
drives being faster because they are larger...

So it's HOW the drive is made "larger" (more dies) rather than
the actual capacity of the dies that is more important for "Speed"?

Am I getting that right?

**Dee** · 27-06-2012

At the moment, 2 NAND dies per channel is optimum, then you can do interleaving.

I try to explain it better in the SSD FAQ

10-06-2012	#2
Dee Senior Administrator and Reviewer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Scotland, UK Posts: 12,805	Re: Weird SSD Score That's about in the ball park for a SandForce based SF-2281 SSD at that capacity. Remember the smaller capacity drives are slower than the higher capacity drives. For SF-2281 based SSDs, the 240GB drives are the fastest. __________________ We came to wreck everything and ruin your lives, God sent us MyCE SSD Reviews To become a member of MyCE.com just click here to join The Forum Rules \| The SSD FAQ \| The NEC/Optiarc F.A.Q. \| Liggy & Dee's NEC/Optiarc Firmware Page

10-06-2012	#3
olyteddy Senior Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In the present, the past was so long ago... Posts: 6,564	Re: Weird SSD Score Are you using it as a boot drive? You only get the really high scores on data drives. __________________ It's been at least 20 weeks since I had a sig...

10-06-2012	#4
mrloren MyCE Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Chula Juna CA Posts: 285	Re: Weird SSD Score Yes it is a boot drive. It does get a 7.9 Windows score and it boots faster than my PC. The windows splash screen does not even come together It's post BAM windows, the rest of the PC operation is on par with my PC. Funny, when I pulled the two old drives out after hours of backing them up I thought they were 2006 era drives. the 160 was from 2004 and the 320 was from 2005. Why I never upgraded the HDD I will never know. Now it's a fast little box good for a few more years. __________________ My PC: Asrock Z77 Extreme4, Intel Core i7-2600k Sandy Bridge @ 3.5GHz. CoolerMaster Hyper 212. 16GB Crucial Ballistix 1866mhz. Crucial M4 256gb OS, WD 1TB Blue SATA3 Stuff, WD 1TB Black Movies 2 EVGA GTX560ti in SLI. ASUS VH232H 23" Full HD 1080p LCD Cooler Master HAF 922M. CORSAIR HX-1050W. Burners Pioneer BDR-206DBK, AD-7241S, LG BH12LS38 The Thing: Gigabyte GA-H67M-D2-B3. Intel Core I5-2400. CoolerMaster Hyper TX3. Kingston HyperX 90GB SSD OS. Seagate 250GB SATA3 HDD Storage. 8GB DDR3 1333 Corsair. CoolerMaster Elite 343. ThermalTake Toughpower XT 775W. HP LA2205WG. LG BH12LS38 The Boy's PC: Gigabyte Z68X-UD3-B3 Intel Core I5 2500K, Cooler Master Hyper TX3, 16GB Corsair Vengeance @1600mhs Crucial M4 128gb OS, WD 500gb SATA-1 pictures and music EVGA GTX560 non TI, HP LA2205WG Corsair TX750, Thermaltake Matrix Silver Case Optiarc 7200s

13-06-2012	#5
PC_User New Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 15	Re: Weird SSD Score that's not bad for that test , again it depends how full the drive is. you can try CrystalDiskMark on 0 fill for sandforce and it will get a little better score CrystalDiskMark 3.0.1c [2012/02/12] http://crystalmark.info/download/index-e.html __________________ CPU: i5 2500K @4.5ghz/1.30v CPU Cooler: Phantek Mobo:Gigabyte P67-UD5-B3 MEM: Gskill RipjawsX @2164 PSU: Seasonic X1050 Graphics: SLI- MSI gtx560ti TFII/OC Edition Monitor:27"HP 2710m x2 Drives: 2x PlextorM3 Pro 256gb SSD Raid0 /Ocz Vertex2 80gb SSD /VisionTek 120GB SSD Verbatium 120Gb SSD/Kingston HyperX 3K 240GB SSD Case: mod Rocketfish OS's: Win 7x64 SP1 Mouse:Mionix Naos 5000 KB: Max Keyboard Nighthawk x8 Cherry browns w/ red leds

20-06-2012	#8
Wombler Administrator & Reviewer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 9,578	Sorry for the delay in responding Dee but that's a wonderful explanation. I've another question though and apologies in advance if this is obvious query to someone in the know. As capacities rise in the future, possibly into the multi GB zone, how scalable is this effect? Or in other words will we see a bottleneck develop beyond a certain size where the channels become fully saturated? Wombler __________________ ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ Forum Help: Forum Rules, MyCE Help Centre If you find these forums useful then: Register Here DVDFab/ImgBurn: Choosing the correct Layer Break Position in ImgBurn DVDFab: BDMV-REC Supported Burners Reviews: Ideal DVD Copy, Magic DVD Copier, DVDFab DVD Copy v9

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27-06-2012	#11
AllanDeGroot MyCE Resident Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,438	Ok so more dies in the SSD makes them faster provided you have a die for each available channel on the controller (unless/until) someone comes up with a controller with more channels)... and until then there is a limit on "larger" (beyond what size?) drives being faster because they are larger... So it's HOW the drive is made "larger" (more dies) rather than the actual capacity of the dies that is more important for "Speed"? Am I getting that right? __________________ If you become annoyed with an electronic device and soothe the animal side of your nature by smashing it with a hammer some will say that you are ruled by that "animal side", However the Cerebral side that "holds the leash" of your animal side understands the basic reality that once smashed that annoying POS will never irritate you again.... it is only serendipity that you also rid yourself of some repressed rage in the process...

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