Seagate tops Western Digital, becomes no. 1 HDD maker

Justin_Massoud · 01-02-2012

Seagate tops Western Digital, becomes no. 1 HDD maker.

Catastrophic flooding disrupted hard disk drive makers' Thailand production plants last fall, driving prices up and shipment numbers down. Seagate, however, still managed to ship 47 million hard drives - a relatively small drop-off of 8 percent from the previous quarter's 51 million. That number makes Seagate the new global HDD shipment leader. Prior to the disaster, Seagate and rival Western Digital were neck and neck, with the latter slightly ahead.

Read the full article here: http://www.myce.com/news/seagate-top...d-maker-58092/

Please note that the reactions from the complete site will be synched below.

*debro* · 01-02-2012

1) Seagate cheated by buying samsungs hdd division.
2)i Is itreally any mystery that hdd prices double/triple that sales go down?
Quite frankly, I'm surprised that sales were at 50%, a damning testament to product reliability/quality really.

olddancer · 01-02-2012

So now we have a choice of buying Junk from the number 1 Manufacturer or
Garbage from the number 2 Manufacturer.
If "Truth in Advertising" ever happens #1 can say our Junk isn't as bad as their Garbage.
Hooray for choice!

Justin_Massoud · 01-02-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by debro

1) Seagate cheated by buying samsungs hdd division..

Western Digital acquired Hitachi GST, so it's even.

*coolcolors* · 02-02-2012

What we all fail to forget is quality and not quantity makes for a good hard drive brand. Just like a example Toyota wants to be the no.1 and now has fallen to from it. This example should make people pause and ask themselves what are you looking for in a hard drive quality or quantity??? I can say for most would be quality and quantity a distant second. I myself would choose quality or mass quantity any time of the day even if it does cost more it's the long term storage that matters more to me.

Mastus · 02-02-2012

It's not nearly always about the quality...

For example, I know that Toyota was a good car. Still I drive an old Fiat. Why, you may ask... And the answer is simply that quality costs money. I reasoned that if I get 60% of the quality for 40% of the price - I win.

Same stands for HDD's. I've bought external HDD's (Lacie/WD) which I knew that they would break in half the time that same kind of internal HDD. And which they did - though in both cases the actual drives were fine, the USB-SATA board started acting up. Upon buying those, it was cheaper

to buy external drive than internal drive. And my only concern was price per gigabyte.

If quality would be the main concern, we all would have fancy RAID-systems and high performance HDD's and tape backup machines. Unfortunately, money comes to question.

IMHO it's important to realize that any drive (and any car and any toaster) will most likely fail in most inappropriate time - regardless of brand and apparent "quality" of it.

So if I would get (for example) Seagate good quality 2TB drive for 140e and WD drive for 70e - Wouldn't think twice if it stands to reason that the WD drive is at least 50% of the quality of Seagate drive

*coolcolors* · 03-02-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastus

It's not nearly always about the quality...

For example, I know that Toyota was a good car. Still I drive an old Fiat. Why, you may ask... And the answer is simply that quality costs money. I reasoned that if I get 60% of the quality for 40% of the price - I win.

Looks like you already missed the point being made and telling you anymore is like driving off the cliff. Also Toyota would sell better and the cost of parts are way cheaper then Fiat less one forgets. Also asked people do they want a Toyota or fiat and most would choose Toyota and this isn't one type of Toyota but as a car in general wins over fiat. Cost of ownership is also a determining factor whether you buy a Toyota or Fiat as the parts over time and service repairs also determine what one buys and wants to keep in the long run especially with this market and people loosing money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastus

Same stands for HDD's. I've bought external HDD's (Lacie/WD) which I knew that they would break in half the time that same kind of internal HDD. And which they did - though in both cases the actual drives were fine, the USB-SATA board started acting up. Upon buying those, it was cheaper

to buy external drive than internal drive. And my only concern was price per gigabyte.

Looks like one is confusing external with internal drives that have their own control board that works with a desktop or laptop. External drives with their own control boards are never a true reliable factor to asses a drive lifespan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastus

If quality would be the main concern, we all would have fancy RAID-systems and high performance HDD's and tape backup machines. Unfortunately, money comes to question.

Raid has had a up and down track record that only works when there is redundancy to backup those Raid system of which most if not many can afford such system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastus

IMHO it's important to realize that any drive (and any car and any toaster) will most likely fail in most inappropriate time - regardless of brand and apparent "quality" of it.

No one every said a system or hardware would fail the moment you bought and hooked up the part or would last 10 yrs or more before crashing on you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastus

So if I would get (for example) Seagate good quality 2TB drive for 140e and WD drive for 70e - Wouldn't think twice if it stands to reason that the WD drive is at least 50% of the quality of Seagate drive

Seagate is a prime bad example of what a HDD maker produces a bad 1-2TBG going bad and not fixing the problem. Doesn't take much searching to find they sold faulty 1-2TB drives and don't acknowledge doing so. WD has yet to do what Seagate did to sell bad drives to market and get the irritate of users whom now have a brick Seagate HDD.

Last edited by coolcolors; 03-02-2012 at 14:47. Reason: revise

Mastus · 03-02-2012

[QUOTE=coolcolors;2621271]Looks like you already missed the point being made and telling you anymore is like driving off the cliff. Also Toyota would sell better and the cost of parts are way cheaper then Fiat less one forgets. Also asked people do they want a Toyota or fiat and most would choose Toyota and this isn't one type of Toyota but as a car in general wins over fiat. Cost of ownership is also a determining factor whether you buy a Toyota or Fiat as the parts over time and service repairs also determine what one buys and wants to keep in the long run especially with this market and people loosing money.

Someone didn't get my point... As I said - of course I would prefer I owned a Toyota. The part costs and service repairs are a factor. But that is also a factor that if a car (Toyota) which has cheaper parts costs 100% more, you'd need to consider which one is cheaper:

To buy a cheaper car (initially) with more expensive parts and servicing, or to buy way more expensive car that has cheaper parts and servicing.

[QUOTE=coolcolors;2621271]
Looks like one is confusing external with internal drives that have their own control board that works with a desktop or laptop. External drives with their own control boards are never a true reliable factor to asses a drive lifespan.

My point being that I knowingly bought drives that would fail. Average Joe doesn't make the difference if it's external or internal drive. If it doesn't work, it's broken.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolcolors

Seagate is a prime bad example of what a HDD maker produces a bad 1-2TBG going bad and not fixing the problem. Doesn't take much searching to find they sold faulty 1-2TB drives and don't acknowledge doing so. WD has yet to do what Seagate did to sell bad drives to market and get the irritate of users whom now have a brick Seagate HDD.

If you are referring to the firmware trouble, which caused the drive to brick, I remember those - used to sell them back then.

*debro* · 04-02-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastus

Someone didn't get my point... As I said - of course I would prefer I owned a Toyota. The part costs and service repairs are a factor. But that is also a factor that if a car (Toyota) which has cheaper parts costs 100% more, you'd need to consider which one is cheaper:

To buy a cheaper car (initially) with more expensive parts and servicing, or to buy way more expensive car that has cheaper parts and servicing.

A comparison between HDDs that are 50% cheaper and die in 50% of the operational life is not valid, because HDD's are not serviceable, at least for the vast majority of users. You can't walk into a store/service centre with your HDD & have someone replace a part, or a few parts, and you're "back on the road".

There is often less than 10-15% difference between different HDD's in the same specifications (capacity/speed), and reliability of HDD's is predominantly unknown for any model, for many months after it's been released.

Futhermore ... if you leave some valuable stuff in your car, you aren't expected to pay 10x the value of the car for someone to retrieve it for you, if the car breaks down and can't be fixed.

Anything less than a guarantee of use (for intended use) for at least the usable life (typically 3-5 years) for an average user is completely unacceptable.

Nearly all consumer level HDD's come with a 1yr warranty.

Enough said.

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Mastus · 04-02-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by debro

A comparison between HDDs that are 50% cheaper and die in 50% of the operational life is not valid, because HDD's are not serviceable, at least for the vast majority of users. You can't walk into a store/service centre with your HDD & have someone replace a part, or a few parts, and you're "back on the road".

There is often less than 10-15% difference between different HDD's in the same specifications (capacity/speed), and reliability of HDD's is predominantly unknown for any model, for many months after it's been released.

Futhermore ... if you leave some valuable stuff in your car, you aren't expected to pay 10x the value of the car for someone to retrieve it for you, if the car breaks down and can't be fixed.

Anything less than a guarantee of use (for intended use) for at least the usable life (typically 3-5 years) for an average user is completely unacceptable.

Nearly all consumer level HDD's come with a 1yr warranty.

Enough said.

Well, just one thing - WD, Samsung, Seagate all come with 3 year warranty (Few years back Seagate had 5 year warranty).

You have very good and valid points:

Price has little difference between brands - brand price is not an issue.
HDD can't usually be fixed regardless of brand - service is not an issue.
Warranty is almost the same regardless of brand - warranty is not a factor.
Regardless of brand there may or may not be issues with reliability.

So what do have left to base our decision to buy certain HDD? Price per gigabyte?

*coolcolors* · 05-02-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastus

Well, just one thing - WD, Samsung, Seagate all come with 3 year warranty (Few years back Seagate had 5 year warranty).

WD black drive still have 5 year warranty FYI. Only WD blue come with 3 year warranty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastus

Price has little difference between brands - brand price is not an issue.

A what price has nothing between brand price it has everything to do with price how you came to that kinda conclusion just fathoms the mind. Not everyone can just toss money out the window.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastus

HDD can't usually be fixed regardless of brand - service is not an issue.

Service is a issue is the manufacture gives you the run around you more or less won't ever by that brand again. Warranty service is why people buy a hard drive knowing if the hardware ever fails it will be replaced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastus

Warranty is almost the same regardless of brand - warranty is not a factor.

A what again..warranty is a issue and how you came to that conclusion is just mind boggling again. Let's say this you buy a car Fiat and they said you won't get any warranty for the car would you now buy that Fiat???
Most likey no. One has to read the fine print what the warranty actually covers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastus

Regardless of brand there may or may not be issues with reliability.

Again where you getting your info sounds like your just pulling answer from the air and having no substance to them. Put this way your full 500Gigs HDD takes a major crash are you willing to think reliability isn't a factor now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastus

So what do have left to base our decision to buy certain HDD? Price per gigabyte?

Again brand and warranty and reliability comes play into besides price per gigabyte. Where you getting the info is best unreliable and not giving any info where it's coming from. Not everyone can just go out and buy multiple drives should their drives ever fail time and time. That cost time and money of which can't ever be recovered.

Mastus · 05-02-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolcolors

WD black drive still have 5 year warranty FYI. Only WD blue come with 3 year warranty.

A what price has nothing between brand price it has everything to do with price how you came to that kinda conclusion just fathoms the mind. Not everyone can just toss money out the window.

Well, so it seems. WD Black has 5 year warranty.

Can you explain to me in plain terms why I should buy drive X and not drive Y when drive X is more expensive, warranty is the same than in drive Y and reliability not known any better than in drive Y?

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolcolors

Service is a issue is the manufacture gives you the run around you more or less won't ever by that brand again. Warranty service is why people buy a hard drive knowing if the hardware ever fails it will be replaced.

A what again..warranty is a issue and how you came to that conclusion is just mind boggling again. Let's say this you buy a car Fiat and they said you won't get any warranty for the car would you now buy that Fiat???
Most likey no. One has to read the fine print what the warranty actually covers.

Sorry but this is really getting mindboggling.

I meant that HDD's are not (mostly) serviceable -> hence the analogy between car repair and part costs and HDD repair costs are invalid = service is not an issue.

If a have a Seagate drive and it fails, I go to the shops and have it replaced under the warranty. And if a have a WD blue drive and it fails, I go the shops and have it replaced under the warranty.

So in 36 months time, either drive that fails - I have to do the same thing. So I reason that it doesn't matter which one I buy, upon failure the procedure, warranty time and the "fine print" is the same (parts and labor are covered) - hence warranty is not an issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolcolors

Again where you getting your info sounds like your just pulling answer from the air and having no substance to them. Put this way your full 500Gigs HDD takes a major crash are you willing to think reliability isn't a factor now?

Again brand and warranty and reliability comes play into besides price per gigabyte. Where you getting the info is best unreliable and not giving any info where it's coming from. Not everyone can just go out and buy multiple drives should their drives ever fail time and time. That cost time and money of which can't ever be recovered.

Remember, I used to sell computer equipment. And I quoted another user in the reliability issue - "reliability of HDD's is predominantly unknown for any model, for many months after it's been released." - which I agree.

And yes - I've personally had many drives that have crashed and they came in all brands available here (Seagate, Samsung, Maxtor, WD, Hitachi) so I can not make an assumption regarding brand vs. reliability. Because they all failed on me.

As I was selling those (by the hundreds) the defect rate in different brands (over long periods of time) weren't that far off of each other. That was in extended period of time so faulty batches didn't distort the defect rate that much.

And as you said, not anyone can go and buy multiple drives for redundancy in case that one fails. It costs too much. And as I said, not anyone can go and buy the most expensive drives available for apparent reliability and extended warranties.

*coolcolors* · 05-02-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastus

Remember, I used to sell computer equipment. And I quoted another user in the reliability issue - "reliability of HDD's is predominantly unknown for any model, for many months after it's been released." - which I agree.

Really I don't seem to recall you even mentioning that part in the discussing or even identify what and whom you sold computer equipment for- but for one very small but miniscule part and that was all and not much information was provide there? Maybe if you can shed some light but I doubt you would tell us since you so far haven't said whom you are and whom you did sell equipment to. Also if you sold equipment as you say you did where is all the documented information for us to see? Wouldn't you say if you were in that field there be more information provide by you to us end-users and buyers of multiple drives to read over?? But since that is lacking I highly doubt your giving us much relevant information to look over. Reliability is a selling point of a drive even if there is no sense of reliability - whom would even buy such a product whether it is a unknown or not.

Last edited by coolcolors; 05-02-2012 at 17:38. Reason: revise

Mastus · 05-02-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolcolors

Really I don't seem to recall you even mentioning that part in the discussing or even identify what and whom you sold computer equipment for- but for one very small but miniscule part and that was all and not much information was provide there? Maybe if you can shed some light but I doubt you would tell us since you so far haven't said whom you are and whom you did sell equipment to. Also if you sold equipment as you say you did where is all the documented information for us to see? Wouldn't you say if you were in that field there be more information provide by you to us end-users and buyers of multiple drives to read over?? But since that is lacking I highly doubt your giving us much relevant information to look over. Reliability is a selling point of a drive even if there is no sense of reliability - whom would even buy such a product whether it is a unknown or not.

It is irrelevant where and to whom I sold computer parts for. If you must know, I sold them for small businesses and Average Joe -customers.

And I don't work in this particular shop any more, so I don't have access to reclamation databases - so my knowledge is about 2 years old.

*Dartman* · 05-02-2012

Well I have used Seagate, Western Digital, and Maxtor quite a bit and the only one so far that has failed early was the CHEAP one year warranty Maxtor I bought at Fries and shelved to use when one of my older drives died. By the time I needed it it was out of warranty and died 6 months after being installed. This was before Seagate bought them. Right now my boot drive is a WD black server grade 5 year 500 gig drive and I bought it for way more then a typical sized drive at that point because it was obvious the drive was much better built then the other drive I could have bought for less, plus the 5 year warranty.
Most of my drives do last about 5 years, no matter who makes them, though I have a few that made 10 years before dying. They all have cheapened their warranties down to 3 years, or even one year, so I mostly shop warranty and price now. As far as I know the Seagates that had the issues were fixed with a firmware update, and none of the 3 earlier ones I use from that series has failed yet, or needed a update, and before the issue they were the drive everyone wanted as they were fast and reasonably priced with the best warranty out there time wise. Every manufacturer is going to have a faulty part now and then and as far as I remember once they realized the issue they started working on a solution and came out with the update. Luckily I never bought a big enough drive that was affected but of course the affected users went nuts and everyone damned Seagate as making now crappy drives and ran away from them. As far as I know most of the bad drives would work again once the upgrade was applied and didn't always loose the data but I didn't follow it closely so I could be wrong.
It is a bad thing though that every other drive maker is getting bought up and warranties keep getting shorter, and price gouging customers on drives that were already on the shelves when the flood hit just because shouldn't even be legal.
It is funny that many times external drives that are big are cheaper then the internal drives now of the same size so many, myself included, buy a external and pull the drive out to use elsewhere.

*DukeNukem* · 06-02-2012

I have bought many hard drives over the years, mostly WD and Seagate. I think they're equally good. I have a great Fantom external drive with a Hitachi 1TB inside. Runs like a dream. I think quality is about the same across the board. Sometimes you get a lemon and it sours your opinion, especially if important data was lost. Suck it up. You should have had a backup.

*coolcolors* · 08-02-2012

My WD IDE drive less one remembers those lasted roughly 8 years before taking a dive one me but not before I moved the data over to my new Sata drives of which are now working and running. What also determines how long a drive last is how often it is maintained and clean up and not maxed or fulled up so much the drive mechanism strained to find the data that will shorten the life of the drive mechanism which in turn will more or less mean future data failure is possible. I used mostly WD Blue and Black and Green 3TB now of which I have two - one in use and the other still in the package for future use should the time come. Also I bought it before the Flooding in Thailand drove HDD prices through the roof.

Mastus · 08-02-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolcolors

My WD IDE drive less one remembers those lasted roughly 8 years before taking a dive one me but not before I moved the data over to my new Sata drives of which are now working and running. What also determines how long a drive last is how often it is maintained and clean up and not maxed or fulled up so much the drive mechanism strained to find the data that will shorten the life of the drive mechanism which in turn will more or less mean future data failure is possible. I used mostly WD Blue and Black and Green 3TB now of which I have two - one in use and the other still in the package for future use should the time come. Also I bought it before the Flooding in Thailand drove HDD prices through the roof.

Sorry, but I have to comment on this...

On what you base that the less data there is on the drive means meaningful extension of drive's lifespan?

*coolcolors* · 09-02-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastus

Sorry, but I have to comment on this...

On what you base that the less data there is on the drive means meaningful extension of drive's lifespan?

Unfortunately there you go again with worthless comments and provides no what useful information for us rather rants.... your right there is no comments for your comments cause they are worthless....

Mastus · 09-02-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolcolors

Unfortunately there you go again with worthless comments and provides no what useful information for us rather rants.... your right there is no comments for your comments cause they are worthless....

I've never heard anything suggesting that less data on drive = meaningfully extended lifespan of drive. And as you don't provide any information, background or even IMO-theories, I'd say your comment is either worthless or trolling.

**Dee** · 09-02-2012

@coolcolors and Mastus

Cut out the bickering. It serves no purpose, and certainly won't solve anything.

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_chef_ · 13-02-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by debro

1) Seagate cheated by buying samsungs hdd division.
2)i Is itreally any mystery that hdd prices double/triple that sales go down?
Quite frankly, I'm surprised that sales were at 50%, a damning testament to product reliability/quality really.

Yep, so true.

*Dartman* · 14-02-2012

Well I wont be buying any bigger bare drives till prices come back from fantasy land. And I have bought large externals just to rip the drive out of as they ARE quite a bit cheaper now when the good sales hit. I have just pulled the 2tb drive out of it's enclosure to use in my media player. I've had it on the shelf a few years since I got a good price on a Black Friday sale figuring eventually I'd need another external or a big drive.
I paid 80 bucks for it and almost returned it because other Office stores at the time had similar sized drives for $69, and I got lucky and got one of those too.
With the prices now I'm glad I just hung onto it and it turned out to be a Seagate 7200 rpm SATA2 64k cache drive so not too bad.

Seagate tops Western Digital, becomes no. 1 HDD maker

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