Maxtor Hard drive : SATA vs. IDE

*shuss* · 15-02-2004

Whats the performance difference between maxtor SATA ,WD raptor SATA and IDE maxtor drives?

Am I right in thinking that I must be using RAID if i want to use SATA drives (and therefore I must but at least 2 SATA hard drives?)

Whilst we're at it what is PATA?

Thanks all

*Dee-ehn* · 16-02-2004

PATA = Parallel ATA (the way we have been connecting harddrives for years), SATA stands for Serial ATA.

For most discs, PATA is fine. Why? Because they can't benefit from the bandwith that SATA has to offer over PATA.
The points in choosing a SATA drive over a PATA drive would be:
1. Smaller cables
2. Reserve PATA ports
3. Faster drives (this only goes for the WD Raptor series, other SATA drives perform equal or worse compared to standard PATA drives, as they someticmes are just PATA drives with built-in PATA->SATA convertors).

RAID arrays can be build from both PATA and SATA drives (can even be mixed). In what combinations this is possible depends on the controller.

*shuss* · 16-02-2004

OK, with this MSI board, can I make use of just 1 SATA drive or can only use SATA hard drives in RAID with this board.

Will i see any noticable performance gain with 2 Hard Drives in RAID-0 (I will use them to burn DVDs and play games)?

Would I see notice that the SATA version of a Maxtor DiamondMax Plus9 is slower campared to the PATA/IDE version or would the difference be unnoticable?

Thanks Dee-ehn and anyone else

{[Btw its a shame this board doesnt support Dual channel DDR]}

*Dee-ehn* · 16-02-2004

Quote:

Originally posted by shuebhussain OK, with this MSI board, can I make use of just 1 SATA drive or can only use SATA hard drives in RAID with this board.

From the MSI website:
• Promise 20378 On-Board
• Supports 2 serial ATA plus 1 ATA133
- RAID 0, RAID 1 or RAID 0+1 is supported
- RAID function work w/ATA133+SATA H/D or 2SATA H/D
• Connect up to 2 SATA device and 2 ATA133 devices

This means that a RAID array can be made of 2 SATA drives, 1 SATA and 1 PATA drive and 2 SATA and 1 PATA drive (for mode 0+1).

Quote:

Originally posted by shuebhussain Will i see any noticable performance gain with 2 Hard Drives in RAID-0 (I will use them to burn DVDs and play games)?

Well the differences are quite nice. You won't get double performance, but speeds can go up by about 80% (max that is). it wouldn't add that much when burning DVDs, but a lot of other actions can be performed much faster. Datatransfers will be a lot faster in most situations and that's always good, isn't it?

For example: a single modern PATA harddisk does about 30/40 MB/sec (very roughly estimated, but good enough for this explanation), while a RAID 0 array of WD Raptor discs can go over 100MB/sec!

Quote:

Originally posted by shuebhussain Would I see notice that the SATA version of a Maxtor DiamondMax Plus9 is slower campared to the PATA/IDE version or would the difference be unnoticable?

This drive is one of the drives that has been equipped with an internal SATA->PATA convertor. This simply means that the performance will never be better than the PATA drive's. As an additional convertor is added, latencies may be a bit higher, resulting in a somewhat lower performance. Badly enough, I couldn't find a good comparison between the drives, but as in most situations, the drive is marginally slower. I don't think you'd notice it.... but benchmarks'd show it!

Quote:

Originally posted by shuebhussain Thanks Dee-ehn and anyone else

Sure, always

Quote:

Originally posted by shuebhussain {[Btw its a shame this board doesnt support Dual channel DDR]}

No it's not

. Why? The Athlon 64 has a built-in memory controller (indeed, no need for a northbridge anymore) and this one's equipped with a single channel memory controller. That isn't too much of a problem, since it performs very good with this single channel memory. The Athlon 3400+ even outperforms the FX-51 (more expensive dual channel Athlon with socket 939/940) in quite some benchmarks!

ViperInc · 16-02-2004

id go with the seagates, rather than with maxtor

they (and the WD's) are the only drive with true SATA circuitry , ie not SATA->PATA built in.

just put up my raid0 with 2x 120's, and they hum nicely, get abit hot however, but some cooling will fix that

*shuss* · 18-02-2004

Quote:

Originally posted by Dee-ehn
... and 2 SATA and 1 PATA drive (for mode 0+1).

I'm a little confused; wouldn't RAID 0+1=RAID 10 require at least 4 drives? *Does SATA only exist in RAID arrays (ie not as a single, lone SATA hard drive on its own)?

The rest of ur help has been great!

I think i'll buy the 3200+ 64athlon processor, the MSI mobo, one 512MB DDR chip and one Maxtor DiamondMax Plus9 PATA/SATA drive, depending on the answer to * (for the time being, until i can aford another DiamondMax Plus9 drive.)

{[Btw Dee-ehn, the first link of your signature isn't working]}

*Dee-ehn* · 18-02-2004

Quote:

Originally posted by shuebhussain
I'm a little confused; wouldn't RAID 0+1=RAID 10 require at least 4 drives? *Does SATA only exist in RAID arrays (ie not as a single, lone SATA hard drive on its own)?

Sorry, I should have stated that more clear. What I meant to say is that there are 2 SATA channels (for 1 disk each) and 1 PATA channel (for 2 disks). Together this makes 4 disks, suited for RAID 0+1. My mistake, sorry about that!

SATA drives can work very fine on their own. Thing is, on most mainboards, the SATA controller is in fact a controller capable of makking RAID arrays(chipsets with a SATA controller in the chipset are quite rare). If you want to use just one SATA disk that's fine. Some controllers accept this without any problem, other controllers require to make an array of just one disk. This can be done easily from the controller's BIOS.

*shuss* · 19-02-2004

[I must seem like the fool who can't stop asking questions - I am

]

If the SATA drives are slightly slower than the PATA ones, wont RAID-0 ATA133+SATA H/D cause trouble because of the 2 drives being slightly out of sync (compared to 2SATA drives which will be in sync)

I will in the end buy 1 SATA drive and follow it up with a PATA drive when i get the cash.

*rdgrimes* · 19-02-2004

Quote:

If the SATA drives are slightly slower than the PATA ones

I doubt that, but in any case the diff would be insignificant. Although the TX2+ will allow you to create an array with the SATA and PATA drives, I don't think I would recommend doing so unless the drives are identical; ie: one running on a SATA converter.
You don't have to use RAID on any of the SATA controllers that I know of, but with some you have to use different drivers or BIOS to run them in non-RAID mode. That particular controller may require you to create 2 1-disc arrays, but the result is the same.

I've run 2 WD 800JB's and 2 Seagate 160's on SATA converters and saw no measurable loss of performance in benchmarks.

*xtacydima* · 19-02-2004

Aside the raptors, SATA drives are really PATA drives with a converter built on the board of the hdd. Just look closely and you can actually see it. Also the extar space left over from the PATA box-like enclosure, they dont even bother taking it out. However, SATA is supposedly more stable, and the drives cost like $20 more, but then again so does a SATA to PATA converter so you spend the same in the end.

*shuss* · 20-02-2004

here in manchester you get the SATA/PATA prices within £3

*shuss* · 22-02-2005

sorry to drag this old thread up, but i am now at the stage when I want to get my second hard drive to make a RAID array (I already have a 160 GB Maxtor DiamondMax Plus9 SATA)

My supplier is out of stock of the 160 GB Maxtor DiamondMax Plus9 SATA drives, and has the DiamondMax Plus9 ATA133 and the 160GB DiamondMax Plus10 SATA (which is cheaper!) drives in stock.

We have already established in this thread that I can make a RAID array using 1 SATA (which I already have) and 1 PATA, but does anyone know if I can make an array with 1 SATA DiamondMax Plus9 and 1 SATA DiamondMax Plus10 ?

I would prefer to do the latter as it will keep my IDE ports free and is cheaper than buying a PATA or DiamondMax Plus9.

Tia

*DiiZzY* · 22-02-2005

You should have identical HDDs when building RAID arrays, if you mix one drive will limit the other one.
//Danne

*shuss* · 23-02-2005

So if i have a dmax 9 and a dmax 10 Raid-0 array, it would work except the dmax 10 drive would perform as if it was a dmax 9 drive?

*DiiZzY* · 23-02-2005

Pretty much
//Danne

*rdgrimes* · 23-02-2005

Mixing drives in a RAID-0 array is a receipe for trouble. While it may work out alright, there's an increased chance for trouble. A lot will depend on the controller's ability to handle it. It's also true that you will gain very little, if anything, in terms of speed with these drives in RAID-0. Benchmarks aside, you won't "feel" any increase in speed at all.

*furballi* · 23-02-2005

I've built several high end systems and always prefer the 10,000 rpm Raptor drives over Raid. KISS.

*shuss* · 23-02-2005

i am assuming that there will be some king of performance increase when i am dealing with reading/writing/copying/un-archiving large files (>1GB) which i tend to a lot. I want the extra storage anyway, so why not have it as a raid 0.

out of sheer caution, i may go for the dmax9 so i have identical drives to make the array. Please if anyone has experience about the hardware I have on these issuses (RAID, particularily on my motherboard) please post and give me your experiences.

Does anyone know about any good info sites or utilities about setting up raid0 with SATA drives?

Tia

*rdgrimes* · 23-02-2005

It's arguable whether any speed increase can be seen with RAID-0 using IDE drives (or SATA). This debate has been going on for a long time. For transferring large files to and from the array, you may see a small boost in speed, but we're talking about seconds.
IMHO, Raptor drives are the only SATA drives worth RAIDing, but even that is debatable.
There are some good threads on this topic HERE .

*shuss* · 23-02-2005

regardless, for purely experimentational purposes, i am going to setup the array. I know everyone loves the raptors but i simly can't afford them for the storage capacities i want.

this thread contains links to making raid arrays to anyone who needs them:
http://forums.pcworld.co.nz/archive/...p/t-39567.html

*eltranquil* · 23-02-2005

A small remark... RAID 0+1 is different from RAID 10...

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ET

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuebhussain

I'm a little confused; wouldn't RAID 0+1=RAID 10 require at least 4 drives?

DevHead · 23-02-2005

I'll stick with PATAs. It'll save me some $$$ to buy something else. Though I may want SATA, I don't have a practical need for it [yet].

*shuss* · 24-02-2005

sorry i meant to give the following link:

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=37918

*Kenshin* · 25-02-2005

http://www.lanstore.co.kr/item.php?it_id=2113

3 meter SATA cable. I'm wondering if it's 30cm or 300cm. I have 8 1m cables, about 10-20 80cm cables, and many other shorter (60-40cm) cables. For PATA, longest ones are 80cm only.

15-02-2004	#1
shuss CDFreaks Resident Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: UK Posts: 1,431	Maxtor Hard drive : SATA vs. IDE Whats the performance difference between maxtor SATA ,WD raptor SATA and IDE maxtor drives? Am I right in thinking that I must be using RAID if i want to use SATA drives (and therefore I must but at least 2 SATA hard drives?) Whilst we're at it what is PATA? Thanks all

16-02-2004	#2
Dee-ehn Retired Administrator Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: On my chair Posts: 15,199	PATA = Parallel ATA (the way we have been connecting harddrives for years), SATA stands for Serial ATA. For most discs, PATA is fine. Why? Because they can't benefit from the bandwith that SATA has to offer over PATA. The points in choosing a SATA drive over a PATA drive would be: 1. Smaller cables 2. Reserve PATA ports 3. Faster drives (this only goes for the WD Raptor series, other SATA drives perform equal or worse compared to standard PATA drives, as they someticmes are just PATA drives with built-in PATA->SATA convertors). RAID arrays can be build from both PATA and SATA drives (can even be mixed). In what combinations this is possible depends on the controller. __________________ Every answer is just a question away... My other hobby is photography. Come take a look at what I do! Help us fighting cancer! Hardware tools: Prime95, Sandra, MemtestX86, MBM, DFT CD/DVD: Smartripper, DVD Decrypter, DVD Shrink, ForceAspi Check your CPU wattage online! Nederlandse dropship leveranciers ( gratis ) Linux: be root \|\| Windows: reboot

16-02-2004	#5
ViperInc CD Freaks Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Wonderful Land of Aus. Posts: 99	id go with the seagates, rather than with maxtor they (and the WD's) are the only drive with true SATA circuitry , ie not SATA->PATA built in. just put up my raid0 with 2x 120's, and they hum nicely, get abit hot however, but some cooling will fix that __________________ Its all good, xcept for some things, which ofcorse arn't

19-02-2004	#8
shuss CDFreaks Resident Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: UK Posts: 1,431	[I must seem like the fool who can't stop asking questions - I am] If the SATA drives are slightly slower than the PATA ones, wont RAID-0 ATA133+SATA H/D cause trouble because of the 2 drives being slightly out of sync (compared to 2SATA drives which will be in sync) I will in the end buy 1 SATA drive and follow it up with a PATA drive when i get the cash.

19-02-2004	#10
xtacydima Former Moderator Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 4,008	Aside the raptors, SATA drives are really PATA drives with a converter built on the board of the hdd. Just look closely and you can actually see it. Also the extar space left over from the PATA box-like enclosure, they dont even bother taking it out. However, SATA is supposedly more stable, and the drives cost like $20 more, but then again so does a SATA to PATA converter so you spend the same in the end. __________________ My Rig: Corsair Obsidian 750D Corsair HX Series CMPSU-1000HX 1000W PSU Intel Core i7-3770K Ivy Bridge 3.5GHz running Win7 Ultimate 64bit Corsair H50 Hydro Cooler CWCH50 Intel BOXDZ77GA70K LGA 1155 Intel Z77 motherboard Corsair DOMINATOR 16GB (4 x 4GB) ASUS ENGTX570 DCII/2DIS/1280MD5 GeForce GTX 570 (Fermi) 1280MB 320-bit GDDR5 Kingston HyperX 3K SH103S3B/120G 2.5" 120GB SATA III MLC WD Caviar Black 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s WD Caviar Black 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s ASUS DRW-24B1ST Pioneer BD-RW BDR-206D *when needed...* Lite-On LTR-52246S 6S0F (via USB 2.0 to IDE) Lite-On JLMS XJ-HD166S DS1C (via USB 2.0 to IDE) *NEC 3500AG 2.TC Quiet* (via USB 2.0 to IDE) Lite-On SOHW 1673S JS07 (via USB 2.0 to IDE) Found a Solution here helpful? Like the forum's? Well then, what are you waiting for JOIN NOW**!!!

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20-02-2004	#11
shuss CDFreaks Resident Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: UK Posts: 1,431	here in manchester you get the SATA/PATA prices within £3

22-02-2005	#12
shuss CDFreaks Resident Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: UK Posts: 1,431	Re: Maxtor Hard drive : SATA vs. IDE sorry to drag this old thread up, but i am now at the stage when I want to get my second hard drive to make a RAID array (I already have a 160 GB Maxtor DiamondMax Plus9 SATA) My supplier is out of stock of the 160 GB Maxtor DiamondMax Plus9 SATA drives, and has the DiamondMax Plus9 ATA133 and the 160GB DiamondMax Plus10 SATA (which is cheaper!) drives in stock. We have already established in this thread that I can make a RAID array using 1 SATA (which I already have) and 1 PATA, but does anyone know if I can make an array with 1 SATA DiamondMax Plus9 and 1 SATA DiamondMax Plus10 ? I would prefer to do the latter as it will keep my IDE ports free and is cheaper than buying a PATA or DiamondMax Plus9. Tia

22-02-2005	#13
DiiZzY MyCE Resident Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Nordic Region, Sweden Posts: 3,676	Re: Maxtor Hard drive : SATA vs. IDE You should have identical HDDs when building RAID arrays, if you mix one drive will limit the other one. //Danne

23-02-2005	#14
shuss CDFreaks Resident Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: UK Posts: 1,431	Re: Maxtor Hard drive : SATA vs. IDE So if i have a dmax 9 and a dmax 10 Raid-0 array, it would work except the dmax 10 drive would perform as if it was a dmax 9 drive?

23-02-2005	#16
rdgrimes Retired Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Deadwood Posts: 11,533	Re: Maxtor Hard drive : SATA vs. IDE Mixing drives in a RAID-0 array is a receipe for trouble. While it may work out alright, there's an increased chance for trouble. A lot will depend on the controller's ability to handle it. It's also true that you will gain very little, if anything, in terms of speed with these drives in RAID-0. Benchmarks aside, you won't "feel" any increase in speed at all.

23-02-2005	#17
furballi MyCE Resident Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,261	Re: Maxtor Hard drive : SATA vs. IDE I've built several high end systems and always prefer the 10,000 rpm Raptor drives over Raid. KISS.

23-02-2005	#22
DevHead CD Freaks Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 373	Re: Maxtor Hard drive : SATA vs. IDE I'll stick with PATAs. It'll save me some $$$ to buy something else. Though I may want SATA, I don't have a practical need for it [yet].

24-02-2005	#23
shuss CDFreaks Resident Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: UK Posts: 1,431	Re: Maxtor Hard drive : SATA vs. IDE sorry i meant to give the following link: http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=37918

25-02-2005	#24
Kenshin MyCE Resident Join Date: May 2002 Location: Near Seoul, South Korea Posts: 13,160	Re: Maxtor Hard drive : SATA vs. IDE http://www.lanstore.co.kr/item.php?it_id=2113 3 meter SATA cable. I'm wondering if it's 30cm or 300cm. I have 8 1m cables, about 10-20 80cm cables, and many other shorter (60-40cm) cables. For PATA, longest ones are 80cm only. __________________ Kill Confucius

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