Old 07-01-2007   #1
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Problems with paper labels fixed

I think I've found what happens with writeable DVD's and why they stuff up........

If you look at a 'Pressed' or commercial DVD movie disc, it appears bright silver, presumably a metallic medium that is a good conductor of heat.

The Recordable DVD's that we use have a Blue Die plastic medium that does'nt transfer heat as well as the metallic medium.
This disc heats up whilst being played, and as they are very sensitive to temperature, may start to miss-read the Data on the disc after about an hour into the movie.
By sticking a big label over the top of the Disc, it actually acts as a blanket and prevents the heat being dissipated, and makes things worse. I found that allowing a disc, that was playing up, to cool down for 10 minutes or so, I could still go back and copy the files that had previously been 'faulty', to my hard disc folder for a rewrite.

Printing directly onto the disc should not interfere with the heat dissipation and should result in more reliable playback , and since I have started using 8cm paper labels which only cover up the centre of the disc, my results have been extremely encouraging.

see www.mediafood.com for 8 cm labels.

I will be interrested to see if any changes occur when the discs age.

I still think you need to use the DVD makers recommended media, and a slow burn with verification to ensure best possible results.

NOTE: I have just removed the cover from my DVD player and placed a fan on front of it whilst playing a movie (complete with label) and had no problems at all which seems to validate the heat exchange theory. Next move will be to install a fan within the DVD case.
........Phill
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Old 07-01-2007   #2
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Re: Problems with paper labels fixed

I would never use paper labels on dvds causes more problems than just heat. They get out of balance from paper which can be more problems than heat.
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Old 07-01-2007   #3
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Re: Problems with paper labels fixed

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=172040

If you really have a problem with heat I would be surprised. I would suspect it is something else. In any case, paper labels are NEVER a good idea. See the above thread and many, many others.
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Old 08-01-2007   #4
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Re: Problems with paper labels fixed

I've now installed a fan inside the dvd case and have tested it out with some of my old DVD's with full labels that I had marked as duds, some of these are 2 years old and used to lock up half way through - they now play right through to the end perfectly.
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Old 08-01-2007   #5
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Re: Problems with paper labels fixed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phill-Avery
If you look at a 'Pressed' or commercial DVD movie disc, it appears bright silver, presumably a metallic medium that is a good conductor of heat.
They are silk screened. I worked near a business that silk screened them.
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Old 08-01-2007   #6
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Re: Problems with paper labels fixed

Though I like the idea of putting a fan in a DVD payer, which will probably extend life of the copies. My Philips642 heats up considerably.
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Old 08-01-2007   #7
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Re: Problems with paper labels fixed

Actually, heat can be part of the problem with paper labels on DVD. DVD is constructed from 2 discs sandwiched together. When they heat, they need to expand uniformly or they warp. The label causes the discs to heat unevenly, resulting in a warp. The same effect can be responsible for the dye layer peeling off of cheaper CDRs. Plastic expands when heated, paper does not.
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Old 08-01-2007   #8
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Re: Problems with paper labels fixed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phill-Avery
I've now installed a fan inside the dvd case and have tested it out with some of my old DVD's with full labels that I had marked as duds, some of these are 2 years old and used to lock up half way through - they now play right through to the end perfectly.

Heat and humidity affect paper in bad ways. Just use a sharpie if you have no way to print on printable discs. Better in the long run

Besides what if later your kid,wife,brother,father,mother etc........ put the disc in other drive without fan to play it.........

I would copy the disc now and use sharpie while it works if you still can..............
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Old 12-01-2007   #9
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Re: Problems with paper labels fixed

Since I'm now using 8cm labels (makes the DVD look like an old 78 record) I've had no problems at all an any DVD Player even with no fan, and I get 6 labels to sheet.
The fan has definitely fixed all of my old full size Paper label problems, works a treat.
It looks as though the Acylic disc expands with the heat but is prevented by the paper label an warps during play, the fan maintains a cool environment for the disc.
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Old 12-01-2007   #10
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Re: Problems with paper labels fixed

Quote:
Originally Posted by FidelC
Though I like the idea of putting a fan in a DVD payer, which will probably extend life of the copies. My Philips642 heats up considerably.
It's been done before actually. Se pic of old Plextor CD-RW.
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Old 12-01-2007   #11
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Re: Problems with paper labels fixed

I like the idea of 8cm lables, in theory they shouldn't affect the disk's rotational properties much, and warpage should be negligable. I might just have to pick some up and do some testing
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Old 12-01-2007   #12
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Re: Problems with paper labels fixed

Actually, putting a fan into a DVD player may well shorten it's life. It's blowing a lot of dust into places where it's not supposed to be.
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Old 12-01-2007   #13
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Re: Problems with paper labels fixed

Like i said i would back up the discs while you can and get rid of the paper labels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDan
Actually, putting a fan into a DVD player may well shorten it's life. It's blowing a lot of dust into places where it's not supposed to be.
I agree with CDan.
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Old 13-01-2007   #14
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Re: Problems with paper labels fixed

We've seen plenty of examples of poorly designed PC case ventilation that causes loads of dust to get sucked into optical drives. Same principal applies to any hardware. While cooling is often good, if the device is not designed for ventilation, dust accumulation can be a big problem.

Personally, I'd avoid ANY paper labels of ANY kind. If you've ever seen one come off inside a drive you know why, but mostly because inkjet printables are much nicer looking.
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Old 13-01-2007   #15
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Re: Problems with paper labels fixed

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDan
Actually, putting a fan into a DVD player may well shorten it's life. It's blowing a lot of dust into places where it's not supposed to be.
Fair enough, could well be blowing it out again too....
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Old 13-01-2007   #16
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Re: Problems with paper labels fixed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phill-Avery
Fair enough, could well be blowing it out again too....
Nope. Moving air always deposits dust in nooks and crannies. An exhaust fan has less chance of causing trouble, but too much negative pressure will suck air and dust in through all sorts of places, like drive doors and mechanisms. Not only that, but fans of the wrong CFM rating, in the wrong places, can actually increase temps in the important places.
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Old 13-01-2007   #17
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Re: Problems with paper labels fixed

Here is my 2cents on the sticky labels and the fan on drive. Sticky labels, "Just Don't" ever!
And as for the fans on DVD Burners do you not think that the engineers that have been producing them for the last decade plus have tried this and if they were a advantage all would have them? Reason they do not is clear because of vibration even though minimal and also the biggie dust, lint and heaven forbid you smoke the film left from that on the laser dragged in by the fan and otherwise damage which is not preventable when a fan is introduced
.

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Old 14-01-2007   #18
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Re: Problems with paper labels fixed

We seem to be getting lots of doom & gloom from people who don’t use or have a substantial library of DVD's with paper labels (No henny-penny, the sky won't fall). Opinions no doubt that are intended to help, or purely to air their considerable knowledge. Whatever, the fact remains that there are others, who, like myself, have been experiencing problems with labeled DVD's and wondering how to get around the problem without ditching the lot and starting again.
The players I use cost less than $50 so its no big deal to take the cover off, mount a fan directly over the disc mechanism and power it with a 12volt plug-in power adapter having drilled more holes in the cover to allow the air to escape, but here's the clincher, IT WORKS!
I still use paper labels, only smaller, 8cm, and have no trouble using them in ANY player, modified or not, and isn’t that what its all about?
To rescue the data from any DVD's that you wish to rewrite, do a direct copy from the said DVD to the Hard Disc first thing in the morning when its all cool, getting in and out as quickly as you can, works every time.........
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Old 14-01-2007   #19
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Re: Problems with paper labels fixed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phill-Avery
We seem to be getting lots of doom & gloom from people who don’t use or have a substantial library of DVD's with paper labels (No henny-penny, the sky won't fall). Opinions no doubt that are intended to help, or purely to air their considerable knowledge. Whatever, the fact remains that there are others, who, like myself, have been experiencing problems with labeled DVD's and wondering how to get around the problem without ditching the lot and starting again.
The players I use cost less than $50 so its no big deal to take the cover off, mount a fan directly over the disc mechanism and power it with a 12volt plug-in power adapter having drilled more holes in the cover to allow the air to escape, but here's the clincher, IT WORKS!
I still use paper labels, only smaller, 8cm, and have no trouble using them in ANY player, modified or not, and isn’t that what its all about?
To rescue the data from any DVD's that you wish to rewrite, do a direct copy from the said DVD to the Hard Disc first thing in the morning when its all cool, getting in and out as quickly as you can, works every time.........
Interesting idea's but as most here and on the other dvd and copy forums go paper labels are a waste of time in the end as you have found with dvds and cds and now it is much more effective to either print on printable media or a simple sharpie! Why even temp the issues almost 99.9% of everyone using paper sticky labels have and also making dvds and cds worthless and loosing hours and hours of your life because you used them instead of a sharpie or a 100 dollar printer that prints on the media for you?
Like I said, to anyone who reads this and or is even remotely thinking of using paper sticky labels even the 8cm ones just don't waste your time life is to short so simply print on printable media everyone needs a printer and the media printable printers are more or less a all in one unit for your every need including your media! Why chance the issues sticky labels make? Even the 8cm ones will eventually cause issues!
As for the fans on media player and recorders really give it up and move on to the future printable media and if you just cant? Grab a sharpie!As for doing mods to your equipment like a fan that eventually causes terminal damage to your drive and reader again why? Just so you can still use your sticky labels a while longer? Seems you are wasting more time and money then needed.

Luvs Jenni
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Old 14-01-2007   #20
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Re: Problems with paper labels fixed

You would think that someone who had a "substantial library" of DVD's ruined by paper labels would take the hint, stop using the labels and replace the discs. If that's an unreasonable assumption, so be it. I'm sure that the full-disc labels seemed like a good idea at the time, just as the 8CM labels might seem like a good idea now. But there's a pattern there that a prudent person might want to look at.

Last edited by DrageMester; 14-01-2007 at 18:31. Reason: removed inflammatory remark
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Old 14-01-2007   #21
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Re: Problems with paper labels fixed

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDan
You would think that someone who had a "substantial library" of DVD's ruined by paper labels would take the hint, stop using the labels and replace the discs. If that's an unreasonable assumption, so be it. I'm sure that the full-disc labels seemed like a good idea at the time, just as the 8CM labels might seem like a good idea now. But there's a pattern there that a prudent person might want to look at.

LMAOROF, You hit the nail on the head there!
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Last edited by DrageMester; 14-01-2007 at 18:31. Reason: removed quoted remark
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Old 14-01-2007   #22
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Re: Problems with paper labels fixed

Let's keep it friendly in this thread. Thanks!
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Old 16-01-2007   #23
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Re: Problems with paper labels fixed

Phil,

Even though I have stopped using paper labels I think this was interesting to read and does explain problems I've had the past so thanks for sharing

Cheers
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Old 19-01-2007   #24
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Re: Problems with paper labels fixed

Well, I've got some Good News, and I've got some Bad News (for the non-believers that is) - All of my Paper Labeled DVD's are playing perfectly.
There has been no great Dust Build-up (possibly because we keep the house clean - although I did notice allot on the net last week).
The sky hasn’t fallen and the 8cm labels work well because I can use any media, regardless of the backing.
I should mention that I inadvertently placed a label on the Shiny Blue side of a disc in my excitement, and I couldn’t get that to play at all, must look into that - I'll keep you posted.........Phill
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Old 19-01-2007   #25
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Re: Problems with paper labels fixed

i got tired of trying to figure out how to strech images for paper labels and just figured out that some sharpies are just as good and not near nerve racking


as for a fan on a dvd writer....uhhh NO thanks....i love my Benq i don't wanna kill it or make it die prematurely
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