Watermark on MLP DVD-A Discs

I want to back up my DVD-Audio collection as they are now out of print..

I have tried a number of different things but so far no way to get around the watermark which stops every track at 15 seconds and the player says "no audio"

Even tried recording from a player into a multichannel soundcard - re-encoding back to 24/96 MLP - but no luck..

I gave Platinum a try using the clone method - it copied with no error messages but the disc just won't play..tried it on multiple players..it displays properly as DVD-A multichannel..no sound..

Any suggestions or am I just out of luck copying watermarked discs?

Thanks

KS

Hi.
What DVDAudio discs you tried to copy have watermark?
I made for the test several DVDA copy and they worked well.

Pretty much anything from Warners has the watermark..

and most of what I own is from the WEA group..

Have been able to copy any Warner titles?

I have Warner DVDA discs little and they are dual layer and I don't have dual layer blank discs.
Only one is single layer- The Doors-"LA Woman"-2000. Made in Germany.
I just copied her and he works great.
The full copy with "Advanced Resolution" , he does not lose the sound.
It is without "Watermark" maybe.

I have that Doors disc and will try it using DVD Fab..

The first disc I tried was America - Homecoming - file size is 3.2 GB so fits fine on a DVD-5..

Quite a few DVD-A's are on dual layer - for these is a D/L blank the only option?

I assume the disc splitting feature only works on standard DVD's??

You do know that you can compress the files on a DL to fit on a SL disc

Yeah - my concern here is if you copy the whole disc you are also copying any video plus the stereo and DTS tracks and I don't want the 5.1 high res track to be compressed as a result.

I have no interest in the stereo or DTS tracks..

The ideal would be to be able to select the audio streams - with a maximum album length of 77 minutes, there is no problem fitting a 24/96 MLP album onto a single DVD-R..

Hopefully DVD Fab will include this feature..hint hint..

the audio is not compressed. only video. and with customize you can select only the titles and audio you want. as long as the disc is within dvd standard then dvdfab will be able to back up. and other dvd disc when using clone mode.

so if you can play the disc with a standard VIDEO-DVD™ player then dvdfab will (should) work.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-Video

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Last edited by troy512; 26-01-2008 at 00:25.

Here's the results of the Doors LA Woman using the clone method..

Disc burns fine - no error messages

try to play the MLP DVD-A tracks..

In the car (JVC):

-no menus
-disc plays at twice the speed
-no sound

in the house (oppo 980)

-no menus
-disc starts at track 01 - does not advance forward
-skip to track 02 displays time 4:24 does not play

The disc has a DD5.1 track in the video folder - copied this as a DVD and I get menus and the disc plays fine..

You are correct for a regular DVD - the audio and video are in the video folder and only the video gets compressed..

With DVD-Audio the MLP hires tracks are in a seperate audio folder..with file names such as ATS_01_2.AOB..

Future updates are planned for copying DVD Audio discs using Full Disc mode according to the Tutorial. It is mentioned here.

off topic

signals, any news on the FAQ?

Are you sure you are playing the advanced resolution 5.1 tracks?

I suspect all you are hearing is the low res dolby digital 5.1 version

Thanks!

Looks like I'll have to wait till this happens and try again..appears to be quite a challenge and thanks to the folks at DVD Fab for their efforts..

KS

PS..I'd be happy to do some beta testing on it..

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Last edited by keysersose; 26-01-2008 at 14:29. Reason: added ps..

You can always download the Beta version here in the DVDFab forum we all do testing as they come out and report any problem spots here in the forum and Fengtao and Ting gets on the issues as they are posted
Could be one of the reasons why the product is the best on the market

I clearly wrote.
Read once again slowly and strike over your question then.
Full copy = Full copy.
With menu, ADVANCED RESOLUTION MULTI - CHANNEL SURROUND SOUND ,ADVANCED RESOLUTION STEREO, Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround Sound, Video Clip, etc.
I tested several single layer DVD AUDIO discs and DVDFab make full discs copy without any problems.(e.g.Diana Krall- Look of Love, Nine Inch Nails- With Teeth, The Doors-LA Woman).

using 4.0.5.5 and Full Disc method I always get error message 103 (write error) very shortly (5%) after starting task 1

Doesn't matter if the destination is the hard drive or burner

any suggestions as to what to do to get the success you have?

Hi Troy
Working on "If You Have Problems..." and "Customize UI" pages right now. PM me suggestions for FAQ questions.

could be that only R1 discs are watermarked, european ones are not ?

I'm not sure if fab platimum claims to defeat audio watermarking - from what I read via google there is no way to remove watermarking & the only crack that exists is complex one requiring 3 different utilities:

http://www.highfidelityreview.com/ne...umber=14550899

but I can't logic out why clone should not work for you - what happens if you clone to hard drive as an ISo file then mount & play the ISo file ?

AFAIK there was only one version as there are no region codes on DVD-A


I read that too and my take is that by using WinDVD as the player, it gets around the watermark because recordable media (dvd-R) triggers the watermark

Using ISO mode and Full mode I still get the 103 error

right now it's making the ISO under the clone mode..once done I'll use the ISO as the source and try full mode with it..and burn the ISO using Nero

No luck with ISO's..tried both Nero and DVD Fab and get same results as my post 9

The 103 error happens precisely at the 30 second mark which is where the watermark would kick in..

Oh well..I tried..

another reference:


http://www.amigodvdripper.com/ref/dvd_audio_CSS.pdf

the watermark is a type of digital rights management. I gues that it works like some PC game dvd protections i.e. there is key data on the original DVD that does not copy properly, even with clone mode

wikipedia:
Copy protection
DVD-Audio discs may optionally employ a copy protection mechanism called Content Protection for Prerecorded Media (CPPM).[5] CPPM, managed by the 4C Entity, prevents users from extracting audio to computers and portable media players.

Because DVD-Video's content-scrambling system (CSS) was quickly broken, DVD-Audio's developers thought a better method of blocking unauthorized duplications. They developed CPPM, which uses a media key block (MKB) to authenticate DVD-Audio players. In order to decrypt the audio, players must obtain a media key from the MKB, which also is encrypted. The player must use its own unique key to decrypt the MKB. If a DVD-Audio player's decryption key is compromised, that key can be rendered useless for decrypting future DVD-Audio discs. DVD-Audio discs can also utilize digital watermarking technology developed by the Verance Corporation, typically embedded into the audio once every thirty seconds. If a DVD-Audio player encounters a watermark on a disc without a valid MKB, it will halt playback.[6]

The 4C Entity also developed a similar specification, Content Protection for Recordable Media (CPRM), which is used on Secure Digital cards.

DVD-Audio's copy protection was overcome in 2005[6] by tools which allow data to be decrypted or converted to 6 channel .WAV files without going through lossy digital-to-analogue conversion. Previously that conversion had required expensive equipment to retain all 6 channels of audio rather than having it downmixed to stereo. In the digital method, the decryption is done by a commercial software player which has been patched to allow access to the unprotected audio. As the DVD-A format has not gained wide commercial interest or acceptance, decryption tools are still very primitive.

Such tools may be illegal in the United States under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. While the Recording Industry Association of America has been successful in keeping these tools off websites, they are still distributed on the P2P file sharing networks and are sometimes posted to newsgroups.[7]

[QUOTE=cybmole;1987989]wikipedia:
" . If a DVD-Audio player encounters a watermark on a disc without a valid MKB, it will halt playback.[6]"

so Fab would need to somehow preserve that MKB , as it can't remove the watermark; & it does not seem to have such an option

[quote=cybmole;1987990]Unfortunately looks like there's no way around it..

Ironic that this is about the only format you cannot copy but it's all but dead and I want to copy them because I can no longer replace them..

If I could buy another copy in the future I wouldn't even bother making backups..

Thanks for the info..

KS