Inverse Telecine in DVD Fab

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DVDFab / DVD Region+CSS Free Discuss, Inverse Telecine in DVD Fab at Movie copy software forum; Almost all DVDs today are telecined. Is there any way to convert to mobile (PSP, iPOD and other profiles) with telecine instead deinterlace? Also, deinterlace in only available if you edit the XML profile and put a tag to deinterlace. If there is a option in GUI will be much

Old Posted: 11-06-2008
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acrespo (MyCE Junior Member)
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Almost all DVDs today are telecined. Is there any way to convert to mobile (PSP, iPOD and other profiles) with telecine instead deinterlace?

Also, deinterlace in only available if you edit the XML profile and put a tag to deinterlace. If there is a option in GUI will be much more easy.
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Old Posted: 11-06-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acrespo View Post
Almost all DVDs today are telecined. Is there any way to convert to mobile (PSP, iPOD and other profiles) with telecine instead deinterlace?

Also, deinterlace in only available if you edit the XML profile and put a tag to deinterlace. If there is a option in GUI will be much more easy.
Telesine is the process of transferring motion picture film into video form unless I am mistaken. I did not know it had anything to do with DVDs. I just learned something. ( tele= televison cine= cimema). I am not sure DVD Fab can do this, but it does so many things maybe Fengtao can make it do this also.
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Old Posted: 11-06-2008
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My player (Archos) and TV (LG) cope with telecined content without judder, shudder or jumping. But it would be nice to have more control over the codecs in DVDFab from the GUI.
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Old Posted: 12-06-2008
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Originally Posted by signals View Post
My player (Archos) and TV (LG) cope with telecined content without judder, shudder or jumping. But it would be nice to have more control over the codecs in DVDFab from the GUI.
You are a smart guy Signals, maybe we should put this in the thread for new features.
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Old Posted: 12-06-2008
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acrespo (MyCE Junior Member)
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Telecine is a process that put some flags in MPEG2 stream to transform 24fps video file in 29.97 fps to be in DVD specifications. The inverse telecine process invert the process to be a video back in 24 fps. This process save about 20% bitrate and it's less cpu intensive, because deinterlace process need to find the best odd field to connect with best top field. Inverse telecine just discard fields that are "interlaced".
There is two types of telecine, hard and soft. Soft telecine is what I have described above. Hard telecine is a process that really change the fps of video to 29.97 and not only put flags in mpeg2 stream.
This feature will be very good to DVD Fab.
Old Posted: 12-06-2008
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Complication (CD Freaks Member)
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This is going to be highly dependent on what output format you are looking for. If you are outputting as H264 or Xvid then it is possible to automatically de-interlace/reverse telecine the video in DVDFab from the GUI. Simply force the framerate to 23.976fps under conversion settings.

As for VOB output (MPEG2), I would like to see DVDFab do simple reverse of soft Telecine but it is no easy task. You save 20% only on hard Telecine content. With soft Telecine, the flags simply request that certain frames are repeated and the file is the same size if you change the flags and fps. The problem is that sometimes the movie has irregular telecine or a mix of soft telecine, hard telecine, and interlaced content which will cause the audio to go out-of-sync or jump.

The only way I've been able to consistently get a soft telecined DVD back to the (near) original 24fps progressive Film content and keep the audio in sync is to use a Mencoder script. If your interested in this method then search for PS3 in this forum.
Old Posted: 12-06-2008
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Anyone who wants to understand about telecine should read this - I know it is quite intensive stuff, but it is very good.

Regards
Old Posted: 12-06-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Complication View Post
This is going to be highly dependent on what output format you are looking for. If you are outputting as H264 or Xvid then it is possible to automatically de-interlace/reverse telecine the video in DVDFab from the GUI. Simply force the framerate to 23.976fps under conversion settings.

As for VOB output (MPEG2), I would like to see DVDFab do simple reverse of soft Telecine but it is no easy task. You save 20% only on hard Telecine content. With soft Telecine, the flags simply request that certain frames are repeated and the file is the same size if you change the flags and fps. The problem is that sometimes the movie has irregular telecine or a mix of soft telecine, hard telecine, and interlaced content which will cause the audio to go out-of-sync or jump.

The only way I've been able to consistently get a soft telecined DVD back to the (near) original 24fps progressive Film content and keep the audio in sync is to use a Mencoder script. If your interested in this method then search for PS3 in this forum.
You are right about 20% save only in hard telecine but it's true only when you use a vob passtrough option. When you convert to MP4 or AVI you need a option to do a inverse telecine base on soft and other option to hard telecine. Mencoder has these options and, as I understood, DVD Fab is based on mencoder. If you only set fps to 23.976 the progressive frames will not be restored, unless DVD Fab enable inverse telecine automatically.
Old Posted: 12-06-2008
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Complication (CD Freaks Member)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acrespo View Post
You are right about 20% save only in hard telecine but it's true only when you use a vob passtrough option. When you convert to MP4 or AVI you need a option to do a inverse telecine base on soft and other option to hard telecine. Mencoder has these options and, as I understood, DVD Fab is based on mencoder. If you only set fps to 23.976 the progressive frames will not be restored, unless DVD Fab enable inverse telecine automatically.
I would like to see more options to change the flags on vob passthrough. Especially if DVDFab could do it smartly to correct irregular telecine and mixed content.

As for the conversion options, have you generated an incorrect de-interlace with DVDFab? I really only run small tests because of the current drawbacks with conversion and haven't found it error yet. It is possible that the de-interlacer in DVDFab is smart enough to recognize telecine and simply ignore the flags. I know that is what many progressive scan DVD players do.

Your right, they are using FFMPEG code so they should be able to give the same options. This brings up another issue which I'll address in a different thread.
Old Posted: 12-06-2008
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I didn't see your thread in question. If you were asking about source code or anything of that nature, yes it will be deleted. I've seen it happen here many times........
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Last edited by alan1476; 12-06-2008 at 23:40.
Old Posted: 12-06-2008
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This is not a platform for GPL or Source Code discussions. Please stick to the topic of the thread " Telecine".
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Old Posted: 13-10-2008
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anikk (MyCE Senior Member)
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There's just one thing I don't understand about this very interesting topic: What is a good old, classic DVD Player able to do exactly? One that can NOT deinterlace, upscale, give out progressive video and does not have a Component or HDMI interface.

More precisely: Afaik on every pressed "Soft Telecine" DVD Video disc even progressive source material (film) is saved as MPEG2-encoded fields (A1A2B1B2C1C2D1D2) or in other words interlaced. All DVD players, the very old ones as well, can (a) read certain repeat flags in the MPEG2 stream of "Soft Telecine" DVD Video discs and (b) do an on-the-fly 2:3 pulldown using those flags.

But: As they can only output interlaced video, would old DVD-Players - ones that can NOT deinterlace, upscale, give out progressive video and do not have a Component or HDMI interface - be able to do an on-the-fly interlacing of progressive content prior to an on-the-fly 2:3 pulldown?
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Old Posted: 13-10-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anikk View Post
But: As they can only output interlaced video, would old DVD-Players - ones that can NOT deinterlace, upscale, give out progressive video and do not have a Component or HDMI interface - be able to do an on-the-fly interlacing of progressive content prior to an on-the-fly 2:3 pulldown?
All the older DVD players output the video per the MPEG2 and DVD specifications. For NTSC that is 29.97fps Interlaced. All DVDs are either at 29.97fps or use telecine to achieve 29.97fps so standard players have no problems.

Where you get into problems is when trying to convert MPEG2 to something else that is more compressed. Repeated frames (telecine) add extra data and often cause judder on camera pans. Interlaced video is harder to compress, not supported on some video codecs, and can often cause comb like edges when the frames are not sequenced properly. The closer you can get to the original 24fps film source, the better.
Old Posted: 13-10-2008
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I see. But were original DVD players able to perform on-the-fly non-true interlacing of eventually existing progressive content on a DVD? They were able to do an on-the-fly 2:3 pulldown on soft telecine discs, but could they theoretically do an on-the-fly non-true interlacing of progressive content as well, which is the processing step before the 2:3 pulldown, but normally already done on the DVD, and then perform the on-the-fly 2:3 pulldown?

Note: With non-true interlacing I mean field-pairs that store the same moment (which we find on DVD Video discs with film content) as opposed to true interlacing where field-pairs store two different moments (which is what video cameras do).
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Old Posted: 13-10-2008
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Complication (CD Freaks Member)
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DVD players do not do pulldown exactly. Pulldown is a way of repeating fields to achieve a higher framerate by marking certain fields to repeat. DVD players just honor the repeat field requests and play the result as 29.97fps.

I'm not sure what you are asking about field pairs. My understanding of interlaced content is that two fields are supposed to make up one complete frame of the same moment. It is only when you try to edit interlaced content that you sometimes get two fields from different moments as the same frame (and get the edge comb effect). That is why it is preferable to deinterlace prior to editing (or transcoding). If there are specific problems you are having with video camera content then you may want to visit avsforums and/or doom9.
Old Posted: 14-10-2008
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Dear all,

DVDFab already do inverse telecine automatically, if the source is NTSC and it's telecine encoded, the output is 24 fps.

Best Regards,
Fengtao
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