High quality options for streaming to PS3
| DVDFab / DVD Region+CSS Free Discuss, High quality options for streaming to PS3 at Movie copy software forum; Quote: |
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- Today (MyCE Staff)
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| Well, don't you think this is a player issue, not a DVDFab issue? And shouldn't it be posted on a Sony forum, not here? Or are you saying that DVF Fab should fix it because Sony most probably won't?
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I also own the NMT Popcorn Hour and can understand the perspective of people in the other thread. People see MKV, MP4, XVID, H264, etc. and don't realize that there are a plethora of options for encoding video with these containers and codecs. A guy in Taiwan thinks a 50cc moped is great for getting around town while the same guy now living in Los Angeles might not be as happy with it. Well the selling point of the NMT is it's 1080p output so the people that bought the NMT are likely to be already living in the proverbial Los Angeles. They think DVDFab is "broken" (they didn't say crap) because it makes files with a very low H264 level that are less then desirable looking at 1080p. My friend uses DVDFab to make files for his Archos and Ipod Touch. He is delighted with the results. To each their own. Quote:
So VOB pass through doesn't make a watchable file if you have a PS3 + 1080p HDTV. People here obviously have DVDFab so it is natural to try the "PS3" profile and see what happens. Then you realize that the only option is stereo AAC and the output looks like your watching it on YouTube. Rather than complain about what DVDFab wont do, I started my investigation into what could be done. Quote:
What I would really like to see is something that could simply drop the extra soft Telecine duplicate frames without re-encoding the remaining frames. The only program that is rumored to be able to do this is a tool that comes with one of the high-end professional video editing suites. Getting back to the original film frames is important in editing so you don't loose quality. Many other tools (including mencoder) are able to "reverse Telecine" the video to get to the original frames but only let you do something with the remaining frames after decoding (uncompressing) them rather than simply dumping the original encoded frame structure without the dropped frames. I don't know enough about MPEG2 encoding to know if this is even possible but I suspect it is. |
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By your logic, shouldn't we start contacting all the other device manufacturers so that they play everything we throw at them? We could do that but do you think we would really be successful any time soon? The point of this thread is to give "high quality options for streaming to [the] PS3" given the known limitations. If this thread gives ideas to the DVDFab developers then it is a win-win situation. |
| On the cropping front... there are some movies where "mplayer ... -vf cropdetect" comes up with a width other than 720. An example: Quote:
Another tip, don't use cropping at all if the cropped picture is near the 720x480 DVD specification (last 2 numbers have a value of 16 or less). An example: Quote:
Last edited by Complication; 24-05-2008 at 22:20. Reason: Removed double "Instead" |
| Seems odd that with my Sony TV , PS3 connected via HDMI and with VOB passthu there is zero frame juddering..not a tiny bit of it....not on any of the 150 or so movies I have done... Having said that it's all wired connections to the PNP server via the router..I gave up on wireless for the PS3 sometime ago.. Maybe not the player..maybe the network in SOME cases... I am not an expert at all in this but it does strike me as something that could cause frame judering as you describe and maybe something else for others to look at.... |
| The problem only affects NTSC film material (i.e. anything going from 24fps to 30fps). My usual procedure is to rip using DVDFab, and then run the vobs through VLC to re-encapsulate them as an mpg (so no transcoding). If I do that, then I get the wobbly horizontals and juddery pans characteristic of 3:2 pulldown. However, if I just play/stream the vobs then I still get the wobbly horizontals but panning is smooth.  |
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One of the problems that remains in the current Mencoder method is that the content is getting upscaled twice (once in Mencoder to 720p and once in the PS3 to 1080p) with the requisite doubling of errors. I can't get around this in MPEG2 due to limitations on bitrate and streaming. I'm currently working on an H264 conversion path for when I have more processor power. This way we can use Mencoder to remove the Telecine, upscale once to 1080p, and then compress it with H264 to arrive at a bitrate that both the PS3 and streaming servers can handle. The BIG problem with H264 in a near lossless conversion of NTSC Film content is that it takes a lot of processing power to generate the file. On my Pentium 4 - 3ghz machine I can get ~20fps for non-cropped and ~28fps for cropped MPEG2 content in a single pass (and that includes the delay in outputting to my NAS directly). With my 1min test clip in H264 encoding I get about ~5fps on the first pass and ~1fps on the second for a total of ~20min in processing time. Obviously 20hours of processing for a 2 hour movie is not going to cut it. But I have a plan... I've ordered a wireless keyboard/mouse for my PS3 and will be loading Linux on it. Apparently Sony makes this easy. That will give me access to the Cell processors on the PS3 which should be able to make quick work of H264 encoding. |
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Thanks t0nee1. Steve Oh and it take 10 mins. or less for that two hour movie. |
| Frame judder is highly dependent on the source material (movies) and the output equipment (PS3 + 1080p). There are two different types, one is visible on most horizontal lines and the other one that is a lot less noticeable that causes left and right pans to kind of jump. Which kind you get depends on how the source content was originally encoded. Judder occurs when going from a 24fps source to a 60fps (or 120fps) output. You are unlikely to get frame judder if you are not watching a 24fps NTSC film source (TV shows on DVD are usually NOT from film). You are unlikely to notice frame judder if it only occurs on left and right pans (you will probably just assume it is a delay from the stream server). Frame judder has nothing to do with your stream server; if you copy the file to the PS3 hard drive it will still have frame judder. If you are happy just changing the type of judder to the less noticeable kind then you are right, it is much faster to just create a vob file directly. However, don't be surprised if this doesn't work for you with all movies. I have seen quite a few that change the field order at various points in the movie which means at least some parts are likely to have judder. It also may be that you don't find judder annoying. I have previously watched several movies with judder and just assumed that it was a poor DVD encoding. It wasn't until I determined that most movies had the problem that I suspected there was something else wrong. Personally, I will not be satisfied until I can stream all my favorite moves at the original DVD quality. |
| Complication, Is yours a US or EU PS3? On my EU PS3, I only get the judder when playing film material sourced from an NTSC DVD (i.e. Region 1). Film material from a PAL DVD (i.e. Region 2) is absolutely fine. I think that's why some people aren't experiencing the problem. Media: Source fps > DVD fps > Output NTSC Film: 24fps > 30fps > PS3 = Judder NTSC TV: 30fps > 30fps > PS3 = OK PAL Film: 24fps > 25fps > PS3 = OK PAL TV: 25fps > 25fps > PS3 = OK I'm pretty sure (but not certain) that the EU PS3s support progressive output at both 50Hz and 60Hz. It could be that it's choosing the wrong one for NTSC film material and that's the problem. I don't know of any way to check this though as my TV only says "720p", 1080i", etc. FWIW, I did some more experimenting using DVDFab and Handbrake to create a h264/AC3 MKV file at between 2500 and 4000kbs which I then ran through mkv2vob. That gets rid of the judder, retains the 5.1 audio and seems to stream OK over a wireless connection. Conversion is just a little bit quicker than real-time on a 2GHz Core 2 Duo. |
| I have a US PS3. It might also be that my HDTV, being for the US market, does not support 50Hz output. I've played with handbrake but the minimum amount you can encode is a full DVD chapter (since it only allows a DVD source). I believe it is using similar, if not the same, encoding libraries as Mencoder because it allows you to add Mencoder options to the command line. I'm still experimenting with H264 output but so far have not achieved an output that is better than the MPEG2 command. It might be that the errors I'm seeing are inherent with upscaling and there is little that can be done. I have not given up yet and things should go faster once I can encode the samples directly on the PS3. |
| Found a new tweak that removes most of the jagged lines caused by the upscale. By adding "-sws 9" we change the scaling algorithm to Lanczos which is slower but much better with diagonal lines without removing the details we like to see. The only errors that remain are usually found in the original DVD encoding. I like to add this just after the filter command (-vf) but it doesn't really matter. The base command is now: Quote:
I am fairly close to perfecting the same method in H264 output. If there is anybody who has been following this that has a fast PC processor and would like to try some test scripts on full movies, please let me know. However, given the excellent quality of MPEG2 output after enabling the Lanczos scaler, be warned that the only real advantage to H264 output is a potential reduction in file size. |
| I have a quad core machine that is pretty quick on H.264 mp4. send them along and I'll test them for you. Add the "threads=4" command and I can make short work of a movie. Happy to help. Steve |
| 90312 wrote, "I tried streaming and had the same issues you describe Complication, then I read the above post. I thought what the heck I’d give it a try and like t0nee1 says, its flawless! I stream over my wireless network with no trace of judder on a vob passthrough. TVersity streaming vob passthrough is the way to go on a PS3." Glad it works for you as it does for me....I figure I'll let the Fengtao team sort out the PS3 issues,and in the meantime use whatever works for me. It may not work for "all my favorite movies" but what proggy is that perfect....I'll use MKV2vob, tsMuxerGUI , Megui, whatever works!.....Still you gotta love DVDFAB Plat/Gold, and of course the free DVDFab HD........... http://boardsus.playstation.com/play...hread.id=96630 http://www.digital-digest.com/articl...ide_page1.html
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Code: @ECHO off REM ***** REM ***** Change these based on the source movie REM ***** SET DVD_FOLDER="C:\Movies\My Movie\VIDEO_TS" SET TITLE=1 SET DEST_NAME=My_Movie SET DEST_FOLDER=C:\Movies\ REM ***** REM ***** Change these based on your Mencoder location ***** REM ***** SET MENCODER=c:\Movies\_tools\MPlayer-1.0rc2\mencoder.exe SET X264_OPTS=nointerlaced:keyint=10:subq=6:trellis=2 SET FILTER_OPTS=filmdint,hqdn3d,scale=1920:-2 -sws 9 SET SOURCE=dvd://%TITLE% -dvd-device %DVD_FOLDER% %MENCODER% %SOURCE% -nosound -vf %FILTER_OPTS% -ovc x264 -x264encopts crf=2:%X264_OPTS%:pass=1:turbo=1 -ofps 24000/1001 -o nul: -passlogfile %DEST_FOLDER%%DEST_NAME%.pass1.log REM ***** Add or remove these lines to run different bitrates SET BITRATE=2500 %MENCODER% %SOURCE% -alang en -channels 6 -oac copy -vf %FILTER_OPTS% -ovc x264 -x264encopts bitrate=%BITRATE%:%X264_OPTS%:pass=2 -ofps 24000/1001 -of lavf -o %DEST_FOLDER%%DEST_NAME%_%BITRATE%.avi -passlogfile %DEST_FOLDER%%DEST_NAME%.pass1.log SET BITRATE=5000 %MENCODER% %SOURCE% -alang en -channels 6 -oac copy -vf %FILTER_OPTS% -ovc x264 -x264encopts bitrate=%BITRATE%:%X264_OPTS%:pass=2 -ofps 24000/1001 -of lavf -o %DEST_FOLDER%%DEST_NAME%_%BITRATE%.avi -passlogfile %DEST_FOLDER%%DEST_NAME%.pass1.log SET BITRATE=8000 %MENCODER% %SOURCE% -alang en -channels 6 -oac copy -vf %FILTER_OPTS% -ovc x264 -x264encopts bitrate=%BITRATE%:%X264_OPTS%:pass=2 -ofps 24000/1001 -of lavf -o %DEST_FOLDER%%DEST_NAME%_%BITRATE%.avi -passlogfile %DEST_FOLDER%%DEST_NAME%.pass1.log Make sure your source DVD is NTSC Film content. Obviously you need to change the movie and mencoder locations. If you would like to only try one chapter the you can add "-chapter 1-1" to the end of the DVD_FOLDER like this: Code: SET DVD_FOLDER="C:\Movies\My Movie\VIDEO_TS" -chapter 1-1 |
| That last line should say to add to the X264_OPTS rather than the COMMON_OPTS. I don't understand why editing your post is so verboten. |
| I have been in this same boat as the OP, trying to come up with a good solution for streaming my DVD vobs to the PS3 so they look proper. Changing the field order to bottom first really makes things more watchable, but it still bothers me that I get that telecine garbage. My other frustration is I am trying to have one file that works for both my PS3 and my old media player (a Dlink dsm320) that is now a dedicated kid's movie player. The Dlink had no issues with the VOB passthrough rips at all. I've been using it for 3 years and loved it, but due to its lack of high-def ability it got replaced. If I convert the DVDs to h264, besides the slight quality loss and time to encode, the movies won't play on the dlink (unless I transcode via tversity which takes too much of my cpu for me to be happy) If I use the method described in this thread, the dsm also cannot play the files because it only supports 720x480. So once again, I'd have to transcode. If I use the method described in this thread but don't resize, it works on both players but the quality loss is too drastic for me to be happy watching on my 1080p set. My only real solution is to have two copies of each movie, one that plays properly on the dlink and another tha plays properly on the ps3...which totally blows in the storage waste department. I REALLY REALLY wish someone would find a way to remove the telecine from these without re-encoding. Or better yet...Sony to make the PS3 display these properly. |
| I must add that while I appreciate the efforts of the OP, the image quality is just not up to snuff even when using the upscaling trick and your most recent command line (including disabling multithreading). It doesn't look bad, per se, but it doesn't look nearly as good as the same movie done properly in h264 at around 2500kbps. I used this http://www.digital-digest.com/articl...ide_page1.html and went with an M2T container. I do not follow every step of the guide because I keep my original ac3 audio and I skip the step that uses h264 info because I found it messes up 1/2 my videos. Image quality is outstanding. It is almost impossible to tell between the original DVD and this on my 1080p set, even in dark scenes. But yeah, it does take something like 4 hours for my dual-core to process both passes.  |
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Step 1 Use DVDFab Mobile VOB Stream copy to create one large vob file with the movie and audio that you want. If don't have the Mobile option, you can also use IfoEdit or DGIndex after you have ripped the movie to a folder if you are familiar with those programs (or can do research). Step 2 Use the latest version (1.8.4(b)) of tsMuxeR to remove pulldown and demux.
Use GUI Pulldown to correct the remaining flags.
Remux into the final vob file using ImagoMPEG-Muxer.
You should end up with a 23.976fps Progressive VOB file that plays well on the PS3 with the same quality as the original. Pros:
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funny, before I stumbled on this thread I actually tried something similar. I actually did everything but step 3 and ended up with some weird audio sync issues. I will try again with your method. |
| awwww....phooey I just tried your method and I have the same problem with audio sync. It starts out in sync but as the movie progresses, it gets further and further out of sync. By the end of the movie it's nearly 1 second off. It's really too bad too, because the video IS corrected using this method. I don't mind the multiple steps or extra space required during processing...it's much quicker than any method that requires recompression. So the question is...what causes the sync issues? In my original tests I mentioned that I did everything BUT step 3, but I ended up with the same problems. Why do we need to remove pulldown and change framrate in step 2, when we effectively do it again in step 3? What about just demuxing then using GUI pulldown to remove pulldown and change rate, then remuxing? I'll test that tomorrow... |
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As for the audio sync issue, the problem is probably tied to the timecodes on the video and audio. When I first started this process I also had the problem on one or two movies, but I was focused on the video problem so I didn't pursue it. In GUI pulldown there is a "not recalculate timecode" option that you might try. Once I find a movie that has the problem then I can investigate further. Last edited by Complication; 04-06-2008 at 16:33. Reason: typo |
| Again, I don't have an audio drift problem movie handy but in doing some quick research I came across this small thread: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/640431 You might be able to correct the audio drift when it occurs using Mencoder: Quote:
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