Complete newbie looking for a steer

Thanks for all that my friend. I hope I will manage to understand it. It seems that every time I think I am getting somewhere something else jumps out to confuse me!

To clarify, it is still the same project. All I started off wanting to do was take the DVD which my recorder had produced (90 minutes of Ice Dancing performances from the 1980s which I had copied from tape) and create a new entry page (menu) with 16 labeled buttons to select 16 entry points through the recording to start at the beginning of each performance. Seemed like a fairly simple task - but Oh No.

This was to be the the learning exercise using the first of all my old VCR tapes that I wanted to convert to DVD so that I could get rid of the heap of tapes that I have stored away under the stairs.

I am not sure whether to continue struggling with this project, or to give it up as too ambitious for me. I thought that MS Access was complicated, but it has nothing on this!

-------

I am rather disappointed with this software. One testimonial on the DimadSoft web site says: "....Out of desperation I download your program crossing my fingers....10 minutes later. Finished. Beautiful..." Sounds unlikely to me - even for someone who has a basic understanding of the formats (which I admit I do not), this software would take far longer than 10 minutes to learn. The only user guide available is out of date and incomplete and is not even a part of the software package. In my opinion, the standard of this software's documentation is more akin to something available as freeware rather than something costing $50.

I started off thinking that this software would do all that I needed, and quickly that thought was dispelled when I discovered that it did not even have the capability to burn the DVD that it had created. I have yet to discover what other basic tasks it cannot do without the acquisition of other packages. You are already talking about DvdLab (Pro), DVD Styler, TitleWriter, GUI for DVDAuthor (GFD) - is the list endless?

-------

I hope that you can help me to regain some confidence both in this package and in my abilities to use it.

---

Last edited by albertd; 29-01-2008 at 11:46.

OK then, I still have not given up.

I have been investigating how to replace the frame behind the existing menu. With VM PGC1 selected, I right clicked in the right hand display of the menu and selected Replace with Still. I got the Select Frame Dialog from which I can change the background to one of those currently defined, none of which I actually want. I also found that I was able to export the current frame as a BMP (720x576 pixels) but I can find no way of doing the opposite ie. importing a BMP to the list so that I can create a new graphic in PaintShopPro and then use it as the new background.

Any clues as how this can be done, or is that something else which seems to be totally basic but which this package is incapable of performing?

Sorry if I overwhelm you with tons of info. I don't know how knowledgeable you are in the video world. Some has a few learning curve, I guess you may need an extra boost.

If I may, let me clarify a few things, hopefully to ease your frustration which I completely understand.

1. DvdReMake Pro is a DVD editor. It does not gear toward menu creation, which authoring software is designed to do, among other things. Hopefully, the author may expand this area in future release if there are enough users express enough interests for the author to plan and implement. What DVDRMP can do is replace menus created by an authoring software. At the moment, the menu must be in VOB format for DVDRMP to replace. Request has been made for it to accept BMP file (just the menu background, not the subpicture bitmap) in the near future.

2. The testimonial you quote is true depending on what actions are done. e.g. if all you do is blank the previews, warnings, logo, or any simple editing, you can accomplish it in a few minutes with the assumption that you're already familiar with the program. However, dealing with menus and replacements do take time, but not that long. The only time consuming part is modifying/creating the menu background, etc.

3. DVDRMP is very customizable that you can make editing tasks as simple to complicated as you want.

4. DVDRMP does not have a burning engine, so it cannot burn DVD. Nowhere on the website does it say that. You can browse through the menus and toolbar and see there's no option to burn as well.

With these said, the packages I mentioned are authoring tools with menu creation capability with button pointing to a specific chapter. The author of each package is able to help you should you give it a try.

Since you're continuing with this project, perhaps I can help you walk through this if I have your files. Include in the zip file all the original IFOs, the menu VOB (VIDEO_TS.VOB) and the new menu background (BMP). Then upload to file hosting site like savefile.com.

Remember to save the bitmap as 24-bit bitmap in PaintShopPro. As I mentioned in #1 above, DVDRMP only accepts VOB file for replacement, not BMP. But no worries, there's a nifty utility that automatically converts BMP to VOB format: http://www.cdr-zone.com/forum/about6965.html Just follow the directions.

You mentioned that there are 16 buttons. Is this created by the DVD Recorder or you add this in PaintShopPro? If 16 buttons are created by DVD Recorder, then Replace with still is the one to use unless you change button positions. If they are created in PaintShopPro, then use "Replace block", available in the Programs pane. Well, I will know this once I receive your files.

Thanks for all of thatThank you for the offer, however I have managed to get the new graphic into the DVDRMP project using the nifty utility that you mentioned.The 16 buttons are new, created by me in PSP and converted to .VOB.

I have produced a page of screen grabs for you to examine at http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/albertd/images.htm

The problem I now have is that when I burn the DVD, it all goes OK but when I load the DVD into my recorder to play it, I get the new menu up OK, with an intermittent highlight over part of the top left button, but I cannot move the highlight and no video plays. Whatever I press, I just get the 'remote control button unavailable' symbol.

Any ideas what I have done wrong now?

Can't help you much with MakePro, but if you are after info on DVD format in general try http://dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html

I found this site when I first started making DVDs around 2002 and IMHO it still is a good guide for newcomers.

Thanks for that.

Please read over post #25 again, take note of the first paragraph. I've explained how the menu structure works. You completely modify the background, creating new buttons and changing its positions. This means complete menu reauthoring. Replacing the menu background is not enough. You still need to modify the button/subpicture highlight - this is the main reason for the partial highlight you're experiencing.

From the screenshots, what is the error for the red highlighted Titles node under VTS1? I don't think you're doing it right. You cannot create more VTS Titles to just refer to a specific program and have VMG Title refer to this VTS Title. You can only refer to program 1 for each entry PGC, which is part of the multi-PGC multi-Title.

btw, what happened to program 1 reference in Titles pane?

There are 2 approaches to refer to a specific chapter:

1. With the menu in the VMG domain, assign a specific value to a register, R[x] = y, for each button. Jump to VMG Title 1 (VTS1 Title 1). Then in the VTS1/Program Chains/PGC1, write some pre-command conditional statements, testing the register against each value and jump to a specific chapter (Jump Title 1 chapter #) accordingly.

2. With the menu in the VTSM domain, you can assign each button to a specific chapter (Jump Title 1 chapter #) directly.

For your case, the easiest way is to use method 2. Then reroute First Play PGC pre-command to jump to the Root menu (VTS1/Menus/PGC 1).

If you're still stuck, I need to see your files so I can help you walk through a lot quicker as you're on this project for a few days. As for the files, I'd like to see 2 sets.
1) One is from the original, no editing is done (Just import as a new project if you're already have the current project modified). Do an export test DVD. Zip only the IFOs and VIDEO_TS.VOB as original.zip.
2) One is what you have right now with the modified background replaced and whatever editing you have done. Do an export test DVD. Zip only the IFOs and VIDEO_TS.VOB as modified.zip.

Upload 2 these files here. I'll take a look.

I missed the fact that the highlight section is separate, and I cannot fathom what I have to do, presumably yet another piece of software required - that is five so far I think.

How do you guys who do this all the time manage without having a properly designed integrated package? It is like having a 15 year old version of MS Word and needing five extra packages to change the bold, underlining and colour and to insert tables and columns!I have no idea, I raised that point several days ago. The understatement of 2008. Last sentence I do not understand.It is the first three seconds of the original recording and is unwantedThey can be found here http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/albertd/zips.htm, along with the graphic of the new background.

I think that for any others I do, I will adopt a simpler, I hope, process and make separate (a few seconds overlong) copies from the VCR, for each of which the DVD Recorder should set up a button, then just change the backgound and blank the top and tail of each bit of video. Does that sound a better overall approach?

---

Last edited by albertd; 31-01-2008 at 11:24.

PS. I now have DVD Styler. Not sure if it will help, but it looks possible, though as yet unclear how I have to integrate it with DVDRMP.

Did you use "Replace with still" for the modified background? Well, I tried a simple test to duplicate if I get the intermittent highlight problem, and guess what, there's no problem whatsoever. All I do is convert your BMP to VOB with Automux. Then use Replace with still with the VOB. I then export the buttons from your modified project and import them into the original project. Then I export, and no intermittent highlight problem. I can also use the arrow key to highlight other buttons. I understand the highlight is not complete because the subpicture highlight needs to be modified as well, so it can be enclosed within the button rectangle markings. Look in the attachment and test for yourself.

So it seems that your version of DVDRMP is not producing the output as I expected. Registered version does not have this problem at all. Please read HERE.

You can do all of this with DVD Styler, I think. No need to integrate with DVDRMP. I think Gui For DVDAuthor is able to do all this. Also, TMPGEnc DVD Author (fully functional 30-day trial) can as well, and is very easy to use for a beginner. These are all-in-one packages, with some limitations. You can't expect a package to do everything a user want. It'll be like bloatware, like Nero. Reason for these suggestions are that you seem reluctant to learn new tools to accomplish the task.

I have not yet had time to study your reply in detail which I will do tomorrow, however, to answer some specific points:Yes, I did thatI am using a registered version on one computer. It was purchased for $50 on Jan 22 2008 via Kagi who appear to be the sole agent operating direct for Dimadsoft.I am not 'reluctant' to learn new tools. I am, however, incredulous to find that I need to learn so many complex new tools one after the other to do what appears (at first sight) to be a relatively simple task. What I am reluctant to do is spend much more money on new tools for this. I am a pensioner in my 60s and I just don't have that sort of money.

---

Last edited by albertd; 01-02-2008 at 01:16.

PS (just missed the 30 minute limit!)

I have had a quick look at DVD Styler and I cannot find out how to transfer the menus created into DVDRMP. It saves in a format called .xml to which I can find no obvious reference in DVDRMP. Any ideas?

I have received the files which you returned to me, however, I cannot see what I have to do with them to make matters any clearer.

You keep mentioning more and more applications (some costing over $200!), and as a result my confusion just grows and grows.

I still cannot see how to make DVDStyler pass menus to DVDRMP, so I took a look at another of those you mentioned (Titlewriter) and I cannot make any sense of it at all.

I am in a state of utter despair that I am ever going to make sense of all this. I am obviously missing some really basic item of information and as a result all I can see is fog.

I have worked as a user with software for over 40 years and I have never been defeated by any of the hundreds of complex packages that I have needed to use, but it looks as if that may be about to change.

---

Last edited by albertd; 01-02-2008 at 11:07.

Please wait. You don't have to purchase any tools at all, DVDRMP is enough. I'll be using free tools. I'm busy at the moment. I have to find time to sit down to write the steps for you. For the time being, do some reading in this forum and check out the stickies in cdr-zone dvdremake forum and a search for related menus, there are way many threads regarding replacing custom menus.

Many thanks. It must be very frustrating for you to be faced with someone who is struggling so much as I am and I appreciate your help. I know the feeling as when I was working, I was the office guru on a lot of our packages and I spent much time trying to get things over to my colleagues!

I apologise if my tone has sounded a bit aggresive at times, but that is the frustration coming out rather than any anger towards you.

Two points to mention:

1 I opened your VIDEO_TS.VOB with DVDSubEdit (which I got at some point in the last few days) and while I was not able to do anything much with it, I could see the highlights when I moved a slider over and they were those for the original 6 big buttons and 3 along the bottom, and the top left part of the top left button coincided with the partial highlight that I could see when I tried to play the last DVD that I burned.

2 I have just created myself a new (much shorter - 149MB in total) master DVD from the DVD Recorder with multiple Titles produced by copying each one separately from the VCR. I am about to study it to see what I can learn from it. This one has three pages of menu, each containing 6 big buttons and 3 navigation buttons.

Here are the detail steps in preparing customized menu, replacing the menu, and reroute button commands to point to specific chapters. This should be general enough for anyone to follow and use as a reference.

Tools used: Subrip, MuxMan, DvdReMake Pro, graphic editor

First, let's start preparing the customized menu before replacing over the original one.

1. Extract the menu background ("Export frame" in Preview window). Modify in your graphic editor. Save as 24-bit BMP.
2. Open SubRip. Click on VOB button. Choose radio button "Save Subpictures As BMP" and untick the Options checkbox. Click on Open IFO button. Select the corresponding IFO for the menu VOB, in your case, VIDEO_TS.IFO. You should see VIDEO_TS.VOB automatically checked.
3. Click on Start button. Choose a filename, e.g. subpicture, to save in the created menu folder. Click Save.
4. Under Colors tab, choose Sonic Scenarist preset. Do not check "Custom Colors and Contrast". Make sure 4 bits is selected in drop down list.
5. Under Cropping tab, choose size constraints: 720x576 for PAL, 720x480 for NTSC. Choose XY alignment to be center.
6. You should already see the subpicture bitmap - red background and black highlight. Click OK button. A file will be created - subpicture.1.bmp. If there are multiple menus, you should see a sequence of files.
7. Modify this subpicture bitmap in your graphic editor, aligning the black highlight to cover the button text in the menu background. With the subpicture bitmap as the first layer and setting the transparency temporarily so you can see the background to align is very helpful. I'm doing this in Photoshop, so I don't know if PaintShopPro has this capability. If using Photoshop, save it as OS/2 format, 4-bit. Save it as SUB.bmp. The attachment below shows the modified subpicture bitmap.
   
   Now, let's combine both the modified background and the subpicture bitmap to make it into a VOB format to replace in DVDRMP.
8. Create a script file, SUB.sst, with the following content for use in MuxMan.
   
   For PAL:
   Code:

   st_format    2
   Display_Start    forced
   TV_Type        PAL
   Tape_Type    NON_DROP
   Pixel_Area    (2 574)
   Display_Area    (0 2 719 574)
   E2        (255 255 255 = = =)
   E1        (0 0 255 = = =)
   PA        (0 0 0 = = =)
   BG        (255 0 0 = = =)
   Directory    .
   Color        (1 1 1 1)
   Contrast    (0 0 0 0)
   1        00:00:00:00    00:00:00:00    SUB.bmp
   #
   

   For NTSC:
   Code:

   st_format    2
   Display_Start    forced
   TV_Type        NTSC
   Tape_Type    NON_DROP
   Pixel_Area    (2 479)
   Display_Area    (0 2 719 479)
   E2        (255 255 255 = = =)
   E1        (0 0 255 = = =)
   PA        (0 0 0 = = =)
   BG        (255 0 0 = = =)
   Directory    .
   Color        (1 1 1 1)
   Contrast    (0 0 0 0)
   1        00:00:00:00    00:00:00:00    SUB.bmp
   #
   

9. Open MuxMan. For Video, select the modified background BMP. For SubPictures, choose SUB.sst. You can add audio if you want. Choose the destination folder. Click Start.

Now for the fun part - replacing menu in DVDRMP. Well, I could replace the menu over the original one as mentioned in post #32. But then I have to write a lot of commands to point to a specific chapter. So I'm going to use method #2 and comletely reauthor the DVD to make it as simple as possible.

1. First, let's start from the beginning. Assuming that you have already splitted the cells and created the appropriate programs. Since you say that program 1 is undesired, then "Delete program and block(s)".
2. Create chapter for each program. Do this in the Titles pane. Choose "Add chapter" and multi-select the programs.
3. Now, let's get some needed info before replacing. Go to Title menu, CLUT pane, export the CLUT (Color Look Up Table containing a list of subtitle colors in the IFO), name it CLUT.clt.
4. In the Preview window, select "Edit color schemes" and export, name it colorscheme.mct. The color index number for each pixel type (e2,e1,p,b) refers to the color index number in the CLUT.
5. If you have saved a project, containing the 16 buttons, you can export the buttons as well, name it modified_buttons.mbl; otherwise you have to create it after replacing the menu. This file contains the button positions, button commands, and button directional links.
6. Go to VTS1/Menus/PGC1/Programs pane, select "Add program".
7. With program 1 selected, choose "Replace block". Hit Load button. Choose the VTS_01_1.VOB that MuxMan has created. You should see the modified background. Hit OK.
8. Double-click on program 1 and choose Still time to "infinity".
9. Now let's import the info what was just exported. Go to CLUT pane and import the CLUT file.
10. Go to the Preview window and import the buttons file. If you don't have buttons, you have to create them, making sure that button rectangle markings cover the button highlight - you just have to guess.
11. Import the color scheme file.
12. Enable the subtitle track so you can see the button highlight. Go to Menus domain, Subpicture Tracks pane, select "Add track" and OK. Then go back to menu PGC 1, Subpicture Tracks pane, double-click on Track 0 and check "enabled" and OK.
    
    Now to clean up and rewrite commands.
13. Go to DVD node in DVD tree, select "Remove navigation" and "Enable all operations".
14. Go to Video Manager/Menus/PGC 1/Programs pane, select "Delete program and block(s)". You don't need it.
15. Delete VMG PGC 2 & 3 as well.
16. In First Play PGC, add pre-command Jump VTS 1 "root" menu (title 1) (Jump/Call Instructions).
17. In Video Manager/Menus/PGC 1, add pre-command Jump VTS 1 "root" menu (title 1) (Jump/Call Instructions). You can copy the command in First Play PGC and paste it here.
18. In VTS 1/Program Chains/PGC 1, add post-command Call "root" menu (resume cell 1) (Jump/Call Instructions)
19. In VTS 1/Menus/PGC 1, add pre-command highlighted_button = 1024 (button 1) (System Set Instructions/System Set drop down list).
20. In the Buttons pane or Preview window of the menu, fix each button command to jump to a specific chapter, e.g. Jump Title 1 chapter 1 for button 1.
21. Export, test and enjoy your custom made DVD.

That's it. Looks long but really not that hard once you get the hang of it.

Many thanks my friend.

This is going to take me quite a time to work through a little bit at a time.

I have tried the first part of the SubRip process, and have managed most of it, though the step "You should see VIDEO_TS.VOB automatically checked." in para 2 did not seem to happen, so I selected it from the same folder as the .ifo - hope that was right.

You may not hear from me for a while as this is going take some digesting, and I might take the opportunity to rearrange my file storage arrangements for this, as I never imagined that I would be ending up with such a huge number of packages and files and it is quickly going to get out of control if I am not VERY careful!

------

One final question for now - nothing to do with your very comprehensive reply - If I adopt a multi-Title approach as I wondered in a post a couple of days ago, can the individual titles be arranged to play continuously as if they were one recording, or would it all have to be done as separate play segments selected from the menus? Don't go into great detail - just yes or no will do for now.

Yes. It all depends on how the recorder organizes the dvd structure - 1) each VTS has one title, 2) one VTS, multi-PGC multi-title, i.e. one PGC per title, 3) one VTS, multi-PGC title, i.e. all PGCs have one title.

Oh dear, you have lost me again. Sorry

Do you mean:

1 "Yes, you can do it sometimes depending upon that list"

or

2 "Yes, you can always do it, but the method depends upon that list" ?

The test DVD I created looks like this: http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/albertd/multititle.gif

(the red bit is just two unallocated cells in one of the menus as before).

Answer #2. Your DVD falls under case #1 as mentioned in my reply. Well, your DVD recorder supposed to have an option to play the next title automatically without you having to mess around with the VM commands.

I have searched the handbook and I cannot see one.

At the end of playing back the first title, it returns to the DVD menu #1.

Anyway, lets not go into detail about this at the moment.

Thank you for all your help my friend.

Unfortunately, it seems to me that I am a lost cause. Whatever I try to do with these menus, including following your very comprehensive instructions, I just come up against brick walls, time after time.

I think that I am just wasting my time and, more importantly, your time.

I will have to be satisfied with being able to trim the unwanted parts of the video but leave the menus with the unhelpful thumbnail images which were created by the DVD Recorder.

It does seem a great shame that DVDRMP does not have a capability to import .BMP backgrounds straight in without going all the way round the Moon. This would seem to be one of the most basic of editing features which could be needed, along with the ability to change the invisible highlights.

The ability to import just the BMP background is on the to-do list. For now, you can use the AutoMux utility. It's simply a one-click process. As for changing subpicture highlights, it's not that simple. They are embedded in the VOB, no software I know can change it without first extracting it out for editing. If you can find a software that can do that, let me know.

Where are you lost in the instructions? Anyway, look in the attachment, I've done everything for you based on the instructions. All you do is copy and paste your video content over. Import my files as project 1 and your modified project, that you have splitted and created the programs, as project 2. In project 2, in VTS1 domain/Domain Content pane, select the second block (pgc1:c2), scroll all the way to end, hold Shift and select the last block, and choose Copy. There are 71 blocks to be copied. The first block as you say is the unwanted 3-sec part. Switch over to project 1, the same VTS1 domain/Domain Content pane, press Ctrl-A to select all blocks and Paste. That's it. Hope this works out for you.

btw, you may want to take a look at at TMPGEnc Dvd Author - it is appropriate for a beginner level.

Once again, many thanks for taking the time to try and help.I think I have sort of got the idea for this, but it does not appear to be quite as simple as you suggest.Not very likely I guess - you are the expert!I am not so much lost, just generally confused by much of this software - I think it is a matter of VERY unfamiliar terminology.Yes I will, though as I was hoping to do this many times over, I can't keep coming to you for the menus. I must just use what I can and leave it at that.That is nearly double the cost of DVDRMP!

---

I have managed a simpler menu structure based upon the original one from the DVD Recorder. I will now stick with that, and maybe later it will become clearer.

Toaddub: Can I ask you a favour please?

Could you have a look at the tiny DVD located here:

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/albertd/ShortTest.zip (it is only 2.5MB)

This is a very tiny version of the structure which my recorder produces when doing a series of separate recordings onto one DVD. I have not included the .drp file, as I assume you will reproduce it by import and anyway, it seems to need the exact path to work.

You will see that it has two VTS (of about 3 seconds each) and only two active buttons on the menu, which is in the VM.

If it is achievable, I want to know what change to the structure has to be made so that having played the content of VTS1, by selecting the top left menu button, it will then play on into VTS2 without going back to the menu first. Assuming it is possible, I should then (I hope) understand how to do it for a number of VTS in sequence.

I suspect that for you this will either be very easy indeed, or utterly impossible.

Please try to keep the reply in words of one syllable, and I might stand a chance of understanding.

regards

Albert