Hardware problem: Panasonic DMR-EH75V failure and Panasonic's woeful customer service

I have two Panasonics refurbushed at a Panasonic facility in Mexico late in 2006 or very early in 2007. One of these is a DMR-ES35V and the other is a DMR-ES30V. Both have performed as new with heavy utilization.

The DMR-ES35V, after 2,985 recording hours was still fully functional when it had its most recent DVD drive cleaning on January 18 2008. At that time it was observed that there is some minor leakage of the largest electrolytic capacitor in the power supply section. This machine was then set aside awaiting capacitor replacement.

The DMR-ES30V, after 2,680 recording hours was still fully functional when it had its most recent DVD drive cleaning on February 18 2008. There was no capacitor leakage at that time. This machine was then set aside for standby use.

DigaDo, I'm guessing you didn't actually read anything I wrote, but thanks for the advice. If you had read it, you'd know that Panasonic Customer Service and Panasonic Repair Service did nothing but waste six months of my life, refusing to fix my broken machine and generally treating me like a nuisance and a fool. Of course, so far, Panasonic Corporate isn't doing a whole lot better.

There is a distinction between a defective product and a product with bugs and design flaws. A defective product may be repaired. Bugs and design flaws, in some few cases, may be remedied by firmware updates. In other cases one must find a workaround. Sometimes manufacturers provide workaround advice, sometimes not. In that case other users may post workarounds on discussion forums like CD Freaks and the AVS Forum.

I have read all that you wrote (as you wrote it) on this and the AVS Forum. Your posts and those of others on both forums have prompted me to revise/repost the advice I have been giving concerning the out-of-warranty flat-rate repair at the corporate Panasonic Service Center in Elk Grove Village IL.

I am sympathetic with your troubles as I have had several Panasonics that are bug-laden and full of design flaws.

In earlier posts I have described, in some detail, the difficulties I have had with a DMR-ES40V from the 2005 model year. I purchased this combo recorder new at Costco on 12/14/05 for $269.99. I placed this machine into daily service. I very soon found many bugs and design flaws. I had earlier (9/2/05) purchased a new DMR-ES30V combo recorder at WalMart for $220. The DMR-ES30V is an outstanding product in every respect. The DMR-ES40V cardboard box described the product in nearly the same glowing terms as did the cardboard box for the DMR-ES30V. The actual product was stripped of many features and had many bugs and design flaws not present in the earlier DMR-ES30V model. It soon became clear that this DMR-ES40V is junk because I already knew how good a DMR-ES30V could be. Did I call Panasonic? Yes I did, several times, in fact. Could they help me? No, because the product was not defective. After reciting the many DMR-ES40V problems, some included the frequent inability to implement recording of scheduled early a.m. programs or daily and weekly scheduled programs, the representatives explained that these problems could not be corrected because "that's the way the product was designed to work (or not work) and no amount of parts replacement might change the product." Panasonic did provide the workaround when the DMR-ES40V, entirely on its own, reset the "ratings" to a very low number and implemented a "password," and so essentially preventing me from using the machine. Later, Panasonic incorporated the workaround for this problem in the Operating Instructions for subsequent models. At Panasonic's urging I ran the firmware update that did not correct the problems with the DMR-ES40V model. I sent several emails to Customer Service and Technical Support. I also wrote two letters that I sent to their New Jersey headquarters between February and April 2006. I pulled the DMR-ES40V out of service, put it back into its box, and stored it in a closet. In late May 2006 a Panasonic engineer telephoned me. He said my letters had been directed to him as a member of the original design team for the DMR-ES40V. We had a long conversation. Basically he said that the DMR-ES40V is a very different product than the DMR-ES30V and these machines had different capabilities. Duh? He said that I should consider buying a hard drive Panasonic "next time," but he made no offer to take back the DMR-ES40V in exchange for a different product. Panasonic offered no resolution to the problem and the DMR-ES40V sat in the closet until the fall of 2007 when it was returned to service as the DVD/VHs player on the family TV. At $270 the DMR-ES40V is a very expensive VHS/DVD player. The DMR-ES40V was used for only 355 recording hours since new.

After eleven months (8/06) I began having problems with the DMR-ES30V model's DVD drive about two weeks before the original warranty was set to expire. This DMR-ES30V had been used very heavily. I called Panasonic Customer Service. They set up a warranty repair through the Panasonic Service Center in Illinois, provided a link to the RMA and a bar code for use at UPS. I packed up the DMR-ES30V in its original box, took it to UPS, and it was on its way. My out of pocket cost was $0. Within two weeks the DMR-ES30V was repaired with a new DVD drive, firmware update, etc., and back in my hands in Oregon. This DMR-ES30V has performed perfectly to this day, now with around 4,256 recording hours. It recorded for four hours in the early a.m. today, and will be recording for 3.5 hours tonight.

I was so impressed with Panasonic's Customer Service eagerness to be helpful with the DMR-ES30V warranty claim that I purchased a new DMR-ES15 while the DMR-ES30V was to be away so that I might continue recording my favorite early talkies through the film noir era on TCM. (The DMR-ES40V was still buried in a closet.) I have continued to use this DMR-ES15 very heavily, now with 2,966 recording hours, but it recently had a problem finalizing a disc. It was set aside for internal examination on 8/9/08.

I should add that just after I originally purchased my first DMR-ES30V my daughter was so impressed with it that she also purchased a new DMR-ES30V at WalMart. As she had an extensive videotape collection that she wanted to dub to DVD she soon determined that one DMR-ES30V was not enough. By that time the only Panasonic combo recorder in the marketplace was the DMR-ES40V. She was aware of my difficulties with that model. She then found and purchased a DMR-ES30V refurbished by Panasonic, with the Panasonic Warranty, as offered online by a Authorized Panasonic Reseller.

In late 2006 I planned my own extensive dubbing project for selective portions of my near twenty years of home-recorded videotapes. Knowing that one DMR-ES30V and one DMR-ES15 could not begin to handle this project and, at the same time continue to time-shift from TCM, I decided to buy another DMR-ES30V. This one was refurbished by Panasonic, with a Panasonic warranty, and sold online by a Panasonic Authorized Reseller.

As I began the dubbing project it became clear that I needed more dubbing capacity. I attempted to find another Panasonic Refurbished DMR-ES30V but these had by gobbled up by others looking for an outstanding product at substantial savings. I did find the comparable 2006 model, the DMR-ES35V combo recorder, also Panasonic Refurbished, with Panasonic Warranty, from the same Authorized Panasonic Reseller. That model is another outstanding product. As the dubbing project progressed I needed even more dubbing capacity so I began purchasing customer returned (used) DMR-ES35V models. As these models did not have warranties and some had minor problems I purchased two as-is parts machines to keep the other DMR-ES35V models running. I currently own two DMR-ES30V models and four DMR-ES35V models and two DMR-ES35V parts machines. The Panasonics used in the dubbing project average more than 3,000 recording hours per machine. These machines have also been used for regular time-shifting recording. Later, I added three more DMR-ES15 models, now a total of four of this model. Most of these Panasonics have given good to outstanding service. Some have needed a bit of TLC but on the whole I am pleased with the quality of these Panasonic models. None of these 2005 and 2006 models have evidenced the bugs and design flaws found in the DMR-ES40V model from 2005.

With the coming of digital tuner 2007 models, I purchased two DMR-EZ17 models. Guess what? The bugs and design flaws from the 2005 DMR-ES40V were designed into these and other 2007 models! And there are even more bugs and design flaws that Panasonic managed to incorporate into the 2007 models! These design flaws and bugs have been discussed in great detail in the AVS Forum. Among the users that thought that the problems might have been corrected in the 2008 models, guess what? These same old design flaws are found in the 2008 models as well!

I wish you well in your quest for product satisfaction.

I quit. They win. The bastards outlasted me. After nearly nine months of arguing, pleading, asking politely, even occasional begging, I have given up my battle with Panasonic. I sent my DVD recorder off to the home office in New Jersey six weeks ago, hopeful of success. But, no.

Here's the official word from Panasonic:

"Our product engineer has determined the customer's Panasonic DVD Recorder works as it should. We advised Mr. McKee that the media he is using may be a factor with recording."

This is also what the engineer told me over the phone, which is unbelievable. It's not Panasonic's fault that its recorder doesn't work, it's the DVD-Rs'?? The recorder has failed to burn Verbatims, Taiyo Yudens, Sonys and Maxells. So am I supposed to waste money buying as many different brands as possible until I find one that works? That is absurd, folks.

I seriously doubt Panasonic put much time into this machine. The engineer claimed (after I asked him to about five times) he burned ten straight discs with it, and the only ones that didn't work were Sony discs. I asked him about the failed DVD-Rs that I sent him, and he confirmed that they were unplayable, but couldn't tell me why they failed. I asked him to explain how the machine could possibly record well in New Jersey, but not in Illinois. He couldn't. I asked him (again) if he cleaned the spindle like I asked. He said no.

The kicker is when I asked him (again) if he switched out the DVD drive, since it is as obvious as the sun is bright that the drive is the problem. Not only did he say he didn't, but he added that, "I could do that, but then that could add new problems." Meaning, in effect, there is no way to ever fix any Panasonic DVD recorder, because every DVD drive they have is defective in some way. What he said to me was, basically, "I know what is happening with the machine now, but with a different DVD drive, there is no way to predict what could go wrong with it."

I knew then what I should have known weeks ago: that Panasonic had no intention of helping me or dealing with the problem. Since I know perfectly well it doesn't take six weeks to examine my DVD recorder, I suspect it sat on a shelf for at least five weeks, off and on, then after burning a few discs with it (which may or may not have been successful), they decided to Hell with it. The Better Business Bureau has already informed me there's nothing more it can do, as it has no legal authority. I expected more from Karen Childs at Panasonic, who sounded sympathetic to my plight, but ultimately did absolutely nothing to improve my situation.

All I can do is advise you not to waste money with Panasonic products. Not only am I out the $439 I originally paid for the DVD recorder, but also the extra $120 or so I shelled out for the extended warranty, since Panasonic has no intention of honoring that warranty. To write a letter to me and to the BBB saying "the customer's Panasonic DVD Recorder works as it should" is an insult, and I invite any of you to stop by my house anytime to burn DVD-Rs with it, as I know some of you must be thinking I don't know what I'm talking about.

I would advise you not to buy a Panasonic DVD recorder anyway, because they no longer come with hard drives. Without a hard drive, a DVD recorder is nearly useless. It means you can't edit commercials out of television programs you want to keep. You can't format your own chapter stops. You can't (except with some extra work) edit leader and glitches and FBI warnings out of old VHS tapes you're transferring any. Panasonic told me that there is no demand for DVD recorders with hard drives, which is why they no longer make them, but in the same conversation, they told me that they sold completely out of my model. Obviously, that makes no sense. My theory is that Panasonic (and other companies) caved to demands by TiVo, the TV networks, etc., who didn't like the competition.

One small bright spot is that I was able to attempt burning discs in the slower Silent Mode before I shipped my unit off to New Jersey, and it seemed to work okay, although the sample size was small. This is, as I mentioned in an earlier post, something I discovered on an online forum recently, and not a suggested offered in any of my several dozen chats with allegedly trained employees at Panasonic's customer service center, repair center or executive office. So perhaps my machine doesn't have to be shipped off to the junk heap. Yet.

Hello, this may be a little late to be responding to this post but I feel compelled to say some things.

First, xmarine2847 was absolutely correct in everything he said about the way the call center is run. I worked there for a little over a year. I enjoyed helping out the customers who deserved it but the real satisfaction I got was from people like you. You started this rant with the same attitude you used when asking Panasonic for help. The people (because that's what they are, people like everyone else) at PCCC started out by doing every thing they could to help you. They cant go down and monitor every thing that happens at the FSC (factory service center) which is in IL when the call center is in VA. What they tell you is what they see on the screen in front of them. If its wrong oh-well get over it. People make mistakes. Some of them will tell you anything you want to hear because they know there is nothing they can do for you and you are only calling to hear yourself rant and to take your aggression out on someone. Which is what you are doing here. I enjoyed getting to tell people like you "no" simply because of the way you ask for an answer. By the way in case someone was wondering I had excellent scores for customer satisfaction. 98% of surveys were 5 out of 5 I had great call times and could solve almost every problem that came my way. I also had a 96% average for QA which just means I did things by the book. I only left to go back to college. So if you are thinking that I wouldn't be a very good rep from what I am saying here you are wrong. As I said, I enjoyed helping the people that deserved it.

Second, you say you wont buy from Panasonic simply because you had one bad experience with one product. While I can tell you with absolute certainty that very few people actually care, I will say that you are being a bit naive. Now I am not saying that in a derogatory sense even though I know you will take it that way. The fact is EVERY call center, whether Pana, Sony, Toshiba, Westinghouse, ect... hires the same quality of people. Unless they are outsourcing of course and its sooo much more fun dealing with them. They all have their own set of rules, as well, which prevent them from giving out replacement units willynilly to anyone that thinks they deserve one. I had a lady who thought we should give her a new TV after having owned it for 5 years and never having bought an extended warranty before it was even looked at by a technician. She probably ranted in some other forum about that. I bet you never even thought to research the quality of the call center that you were being helped by. Maybe if you had, you would have seen how highly rated the Panasonic Customer Call Center is, out of their class of call centers. Which in turn should have given you pause and made you wonder why it was that YOU were having such a problem with them. Which brings me to my last point.

Third, everyone keeps saying its the DVD's. It's not the DVD's we all know that if you are trying diff brands of DVD that rules them out. You keep saying its the device. There is nothing wrong with the unit. The problem is 1 of 2 things or maybe both no one will ever know. Either you are the problem, or the intermittent failures are happening simply because the DVD drive has been replaced. You may think that you know everything about how to use this unit properly but you would be very wrong. There are some things that people do, when they start the recording or copy or whatever they are doing, that can cause a unit to malfunction (impatience for instance is a big one). Especially one that has recently been repaired. The other thing is that sometimes units wont work exactly the same when parts are replaced so if you are saying it's broken only because it doesn't work the same way it did before that would be wrong. The fact is they had many people look at it and test it in many different ways. If they weren't able to come up with any problem during that testing then there is nothing wrong with it. No matter how much you say its broken, it is not. Buy a new recorder and get on with your life if you don't like the way this one is working.

I suggest you re-evaluate the way handle any situation, resembling this one, you may have in the future. Whether its a Panasonic unit or not. It doesn't make any difference because the only things that are different between them are the products they have to offer and the individual you speak with on the phone.

This sort of problem will most certainly not "kill" Panasonic. It will most likely not even be noticed by any one higher than supervisor level. The fact is that Panasonic sells many different units and has one of the highest rated call centers around. So you may find a few cases are reported with the same problems but other companies have it just as bad if not worse. I have researched it.

Yesterday another CD Freaks poster mentioned that the Panasonic Service Center in Elk Grove Village Illinois was closing.

Earlier today I spoke briefly with someone at Elk Grove Village. They indicated that all machines currently at Elk Grove will be repaired but all future work should be sent to the Panasonic Customer Service Center in McAllen Texas.

Then I attempted to call the Panasonic Customer Service Center in McAllen Texas. There were recorded announcements but I was unable to speak with a live person.

Then I called Panasonic Customer Service. I was placed on hold after telling the associate that I was seeking information regarding out-of-warranty repairs for DVD recorders through the Panasonic Customer Service Center in McAllen Texas. I was transferred to Technical Assistance. After waiting on hold around fifty minutes I was able to speak with someone. I repeated my inquiry. The associate described an exchange process for warranty or out-of-warranty DVD recorders. She said that they do not repair the customer's machine but exchange it for a refurbished machine of the same model, if available, or a similar model if the same model is not available. She mentioned sending a copy of the receipt (probably for warranty exchanges) and including with the returned machine a brief description of the machine's problems. She needed to know what state I was in and the model number of the machine I wished to return for exchange. I told her that I had a non-functional DMR-ES46V and I live in Oregon. She quoted a DMR-ES46V exchange to an Oregon address at $140, including shipping. She confirmed that there isn't a single flat-rate that applies to all models shipped to all locations. She then said that if I want to do an exchange someone would call me back within thirty minutes. I declined.

McAllen Texas appears to be within two miles of the Mexican border. Here is the contact information for the Panasonic Customer Service Center facility in McAllen Texas:

PANASONIC CUSTOMER SERVICE CEN 4900 B #12 GEORGE MCVAY DRIVE MC ALLEN TX 78503 (800) 211-7262

Perhaps Panasonic has combined its Mexican refurbishing operation with this Customer Service Center.

Both of my refurbished Panasonics came in sealed brown Panasonic boxes that had a sticker that included "Refurbished in Mexico" just below the words "Manufactured in Malaysia."

Well, my Panny DMR-EH75V bowed out after nearly 3 years of service. In the middle of burning a disc it stopped and shut down. Same old story... started it back up, said copy couldn't complete, use a new disc, etc. Put a new disc it, still wouldn't work. Even when there is no disc in the drive, the little disc icon on the front display is on; it also makes those 5 weird noises on start up. I found this thread and was worried that they no longer offered a flat rate repair. Just my luck, only a couple weeks after the Elk Grove facility shuts down. I called the McAllen TX service center and after nearly an hour on hold I was connected ... to sales. So another 30 min. on the phone and got to the DVD Recorder Dept. He said for OOW items they offer an exchange, unless the recorder has a HDD, in which case they will repair for the flat rate, now $140 (which includes return postage) as DigaDo noted. So, fret not owners of Panasonic recorders with HDD's. I don't know if I'm more upset that my drive died after burning only 300 or so discs, or more happy that it can still be repaired (relatively) cheaply. I just hope that the work is quality.

Well thats great for those of us that bought their excellent older recorders with HD's in them. I have a E80H myself I hardly use anymore because I'm running the Philips 3575 with a larger HD installed and the HDTV card in my PC here.
I probably never will part with it though, it was my first set top DVD recorder and I dubbed a lot of TV to disk with it. It's too bad the early units only did minus and RAM disks but I could live with that for the versatility of the Hard Drive.

A quick update.
I sent my unit to the McAllen Service Center on 6/26, it arrived on 7/2. I was originally told by the rep I spoke to when I received the RMA NOT to include any payment as there would be tax(?). So I wanted to make sure there was no hold-up with me not paying up front. After 35 min. on hold, I spoke to a rep who said the package was received on 7/7. He was not equipped to take my payment, but he said the amount due was $127.19. He transferred me for payment, and that rep said that deck was actually SHIPPED on 7/7 to a repair facility, and had not arrived. She also could not take payment, but gave me the phone number and details to the repair facility, in **Elgin IL** I called there and gave the rep payment info and she confirmed the unit had not yet arrived (according to UPS, it was actually shipped out on 7/9). I asked, electrons forbid, if anything else went wrong with the unit, if I needed to send it to McAllen TX first, or could I send it straight to the Elgin repair facility to avoid the 2 week delay. She confirmed that I could send it directly to them and even said that I did not need to call the 800# to get an RMA #. Oh, and she said the OOW flat repair was still $130 + tax.

So, if you need a recorder w/ a HDD repaired, just send it straight to the repair center and save yourself some worry.
The address I was given:

Panasonic Service Center
410 B Airport Rd.
Elgin, IL 60123

This post corrects some earlier mis-information concerning repair and replacement of Panasonic recorders. The most current, correct information was provided by Breyean at the AVS Forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post16863482

The corporate Panasonic Digital Service Center in Elk Grove Village Illinois promptly and efficiently handles warranty and out-of-warranty repairs for Panasonic HDD/DVD recorders, DVD recorders and combo recorders. They and only they are Panasonic experts with access to the parts necessary to bring a Panasonic recorder back to new or better than new functional condition.

For service/repair within the warranty period call Panasonic Customer Service at 1-800-211-7262. If Customer Service determines that your recent or current model recorder requires replacement/exchange with the same or a similar model refurbished recorder they will provide you with a confirmation/RMA and shipping information for the Panasonic Customer Service Center in McAllen Texas. For exchanging out of warranty products Customer Service will provide a product exchange quotation that includes return shipping from McAllen Texas. The McAllen Texas facility does not repair recorders; the McAllen facility is for product exchanges only.

Do not allow Customer Service to talk you into taking your Panasonic to a local repair shop. If necessary, insist upon service/repair at the Panasonic Digital Service Center in Elk Grove Village Illinois, or product exchange through the Panasonic Customer Service Center in McAllen Texas.

Panasonic continues to offer an out-of-warranty $130 flat-repair for recorders. The flat-rate includes all parts and labor and return shipping from their facility in Elk Grove Village Illinois. Call 1-888-439-2676 for more information concerning the $130 flat-rate repair and the shipping procedure for out-of-warranty products. The $130 flat-rate repair is a bargain that extends the useful life of desirable or high end models, especially those with hard drives.

This is the corporate Panasonic Digital Service Center information:

Panasonic Digital Service Center
1590 Touhy Ave
Elk Grove Village, IL 60007

1-888-439-2676

Some Panasonic owners have reported it necessary to insist upon the $130 flat-rate repair in order to initiate that process. Some Panasonic owners have found it necessary to return their recorder without a Return Authorization. If Panasonic attempts to have you to agree to an "estimate," then any work will be performed at the full price for parts and labor, potentially a very expensive repair. The flat-rate is exactly that, your total cost will be $130.

In the event that Panasonic implements the flat-rate repair process through a telephone contact they may take your credit card information and charge the $130 up front or after the machine has been received. In that case they may provide, through an email or fax, a Return Authorization with shipping information or an emailed link to a bar code for use at an UPS Store.

For warranty or out-of-warranty repair be sure to use the original Panasonic packaging or provide your own packaging to avoid shipping complications at the UPS store. (Another CD Freaks poster reported that shipping through the "Panasonic Account" could not be used if it was necessary to purchase packaging at the UPS store.)

With your Panasonic recorder include a letter that briefly describes the recorder's problem(s). That letter should clearly state that you want the $130 flat-rate repair and that you are enclosing the $130 payment. Keep photocopies of all these documents and your check/money order.

Avoid local repair shops. These shops may service many brands, specializing in none. They many not have a service manual or access to the correct parts for your Panasonic recorder. Local shops may charge whatever they please to service or repair Panasonic recorders. If parts are necessary be prepared to wait for an extended period. Some parts may no longer be ordered by local shops. I have read many posts (on this and other forums) from those learning this lesson the hard way.

My Dmr-EH75V has packed it in. It seems to be the same problem that PIMannix has. I believe the problem has to do with the spindle, but may not be the spindle itself. I also think I know why Panasonic can't find the problem.

Why do cd's and dvd's have a hole in the middle? It is where the spindle is inserted. At least on older machines. The spindle on the DMR-EH75V is flat and presses against the disc. But what does it press against? It presses the disc against the matching piece that is in the stopper in the dvd player's cover. I noticed it by chance. When the dvd tray is opened, the stopper pops up. Close the tray, the stopper is pulled down. I think that it is pulled down by an electro-magnectic charge from the spindle. Something has gone wrong with the way it's connecting.

Now it is only logical to assume that when the Panasonic repairman is examining the dvd recorder, he has the cover off of it. One must also assume that he uses some device to hold a dvd against the spindle while he observes it functioning. After he concludes that the recorder is functioning properly, he replaces the cover and sends the machine home to malfunction again. Then the frustrated owner and Panasonic go round and round. It would seem to be an easy oversight on Panasonic's part, but not malicious. This my explanation until somebody has a better one.

I don't know how to solve this problem, but I am not about to waste time, money and sanity finding out. Maybe one of you that is good with gadgets can figure it out and tell the rest of us.

And despite what Panasonic claims, only America or Canada are deprived of of dvd recorders with hard drives. They are available in Europe, the Middle East, Asia, Australia and New Zealand. The latest model of the DMR-EH75V is called the DMR-XP25V. It has a 250gb hdd and is sold only in Japan. They use NTSC like we do, but they're region 2 and use 100 volts instead of 110.

Right now I'm settling for a multi-region DMR-EH68 with a 320gb hdd, but no vhs.

Perhaps the information you seek is found in these posts, photos and/or linked posts:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1055071