Fixing your Panny: When there's a fault and lens cleaning doesn't help....

Thank you for the additonal information, particularly about the capacitor. One in particular caught my eye yesterday during disassembly of the unit, mainly because of the size. Mercifully, there was no sign of leakage, so I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope that the recorder will function properly now for at least a year or so following the thorough cleaning.

I do have a considerable amount of soldering experience on printed circuit boards, but it's a skill that I rarely put to practice any longer. With the closely spaced foils of today's boards, am not even certain I would want to attempt it with the soldering equipment that I still have...not to mention my eyesight, which has admittedly seen happier days.

I've been visiting a single page of the AVS forums for over two months now--the discussion area for coupon eligible digital converters. It has been a wealth of much needed information on that topic, and I'll be certain to check out the section about DVD recorders now.

The Panasonic was still functioning like new this afternoon, by the way...no loading or reading problems.

I just had the high speed/finalize error happen on my eh75v this past Sunday. I tried SaintBaez's cleaning proceedure and it worked like a charm. I was skeptical when I saw the small amount of dust and fibers that were on the spindle, but I have had zero problems burning since.
THANKS!

hey guys ive got a problem with my panasonic SC-RT30/SA-RT30 it wont play disc's full stop could this also be the cause as it was working fine
thanks for the post ill give it a shot and post back

Great for the feed back many don't understand how important it is to find out what works.

i tried this and it dont work for my unhappy panasonic sc-rt30 / sa-rt30


I think it needs a new dvd ram drive :-(

Thanks a heap Saint Baz. I was just about to give up on my DMR-EH55. It would not close any reasonably full DVD recording. I'd cleaned the laser and it had made little difference. I was resigned to converting this one to a boat anchour and get a new one - nearly AUS$700. Read your article and took it apart again. Turned out there was a spec of paper fibre on the spindle surface at one edge, enough to tilt the DVD slightly and throw the outer tracks beyond recordable "wobble" tolerance. Unit works like new again. I'd recommend you for an knighthood, but Australia doesn't do them anymore.

OMG! I got as-is Panny DMR-EZ27 from ebay and it was '0000000' infinitely during power on. I DLed the firmware update from Panasonic. Then I removed the top lid on the DVD drive, inserted the firmware CD-R, instelled the top lid, and plugged it in. It went '000000' for like 5 minutes, then it 'BYE'd. I unplugged it, then plugged it, I was greeted with '00000' then HELLO!!!!! I tested and THIS THING WORKS!!!! I have a Panny DMR-EZ28 that refuses to read the DVD, I will do Saint Baz's procedure on the spindle then reply again. I am supermegaturbohappy that I have an EZ-27!!!

Wow I know it was stated, but Saint Baz, you are a HERO!!!! I did the procedure with the ear digger q-tip thing and isopropyl, the spindle looked like the moon, all sorts of furballs on it. After doing this, I was able to format the DVD-RW and record thanks!!

---

Last edited by choyak; 22-06-2008 at 04:55.

Cleaning the spindle is a tip that realy works! My ES15 and ES25 would not read many of my Ram Discs before reads them fine now. I wonder if it would fix problems with other recorders such as my Liteons?

---

Last edited by CCRomeo; 22-06-2008 at 12:13.

Well I don't think it could make a silk purse out of a sows ear.....
(sorry I couldn't resist) but seriously I would think other DVDRs would have a similar problem with the spindle. Only had Pannys(well actually had MANY other brands of DVDRs(including a Liteon) but returned them all after a few days for one reason or another) but EVERYONE of my Pannys close to a year or older have needed the spindle cleaned. Luckily it's a pretty painless repair for someone a little handy.
Its a good question though, do other DVDRs need the spindle periodically cleaned and if not why?
BTW take my first comment in the good natured jab it was intended to be I just love all the little Smiles this site has

Jeff,

It seems to me that SaintBaz made the point in his original post that all optical drives need spindle/hub cleaning sooner or later.

The problem comes with the physical design of the drive case.

The late model Panasonic drives are usually easy to open for servicing.

I have a Panasonic DVD-S35, a DVD player manufactured in 2003. That drive has the rubber spindle built into the top of the drive that does not appear to allow easy disassembly for access. To clean that spindle one needs a cotton swab with a long rigid shaft. I have some six inch long cotton swabs left over from the era of consumer reel-to-reel tape recorders (remember them?) that I used to clean that spindle. With that drive design I could hardly see what I was doing.

I have examined several brands of computer DVD and CD drives. Most of these do not open at the top. Disassembly begins at the bottom. That exposes a printed circuit board. Next there would be extensive additional disassembly of the drive to gain access to the spindle. When I had computer CD or DVD drives that began to have performance issues or failures I usually ran new firmware updates. If the issues/failures continued the drive was replaced with a newer drive since they have become very much less expensive in recent years. The most recent computer DVD burner I purchased was around $40 in 2006 or 2007.

So, I think the spindle cleaning question concerning other makes of DVD drives comes down to the ease or difficulty in accessing the spindle.

We who have late model Panasonics are fortunate that the spindle/hub cleaning is such an easy procedure.

---

Last edited by DigaDo; 23-06-2008 at 04:24.

Most any home repair try is worth the effort after the
warrantee have run out.

OOPS this is not the proper forum (there is no Sony forum yet) but I did Saint Baz's spindle procedure on a Sony RDR-VX525 that was refusing to read a DVD-RW (???) and it worked good. Thanks again. I will now do this procedure to every DVD recorder that I receive.

Good to know. I also suggested this procedure to someone at AVS who had a Pioneer that was grinding. I'm waiting to see if he posts back the outcome. I agree this cleaning probably effects basically all DVD drives.

Sorry to hear about lack of access to the spindle, DigaDo, I am totally unfamiliar with the internal layout of the S35 that you describe. If you open up the S35 again, take a picture of the drive enclosure and we'll see if it can be opened up.

I fully agree that all CD / DVD drives of all kinds are susceptible to dust and debris on the spindle, and DVD-RAM devices seem a bit more sensitive than anything else. Gladly, they can almost all be cleaned and hopefully restored to perfect working order. The problem first surfaced when I saw Playstation 2s suffering from disc read errors.

From my experience, internal drive units for PC's are easy access. While the bottom plate of the unit will indeed unscrew and allow access to a printed circuit board, it should be the case that once any screws are removed (usually located on the bottom plate) and the front facia unclipped, the steel that encapsulates the top and sides of the unit can be slid back - exposing the spindle and lens. Push against the rear of the unit whilst gripping the top and sides, sliding it back, that should get it off. Just make sure you loosen that front facia before using brute force.

Regards,

Saint Baz.

The Panasonic S35 DVD player is somewhat open at the front allowing some distant little access to the rubber spindle that's found on the underside of the top of the case.

I found a PC DVD burner, a LiteOn SOHW-1633S, manufactured September 2004. This had been installed in a Dell Dimension 4700 (the infamous hot-running model with the case fan installed backwards). The DVD burner had been removed after several failures, perhaps due to high temperatures inside the Dell case. I removed the LiteOn bottom panel, exposing the Sony circuit boards and allowing a view of the lens assembly astride the guide rods. I manually released the disc tray and released the clip/levers allowing the front panel to be drifted out to the full length of the extended disc tray. I could see a small portion of the spindle beyond the lens assembly that itself seemed frozen in place on the rods. There were a number of clip/levers securing the circuit boards to the drive mechanism. Releasing these revealed a number of ribbon cables connected to the circuit boards. The drive mechanism itself was secured to the drive case by several interlocks. Those interlocks would take further examination to determine the method of their release prior to attempting to slide the drive mechanism out of the case. I did not proceed with disassembly. Perhaps this LiteOn DVD burner is not typical of most PC optical drive designs.

I will keep your advice in mind should I attempt to service the DVD burners in current use, namely those of the NEC 3500 series or the Philips 8801. Perhaps these models will be found easier to service.

Thank you for your advice, especially that concerning servicing Panasonic DVD recorder drives. I have cleaned the hub/spindle in my thirteen Panasonic DVD recorders and combo recorders. Now, if my daughter would bring up (from her room) her two Panasonic combo recorders for application of the Saint Baz Procedure all the Panasonics in our household will have benefitted from your invaluable advice.

Best Wishes,

DigaDo

The laser components do have a limited lifetime; 5 years is about average with reasonable use, but since the manufacturer's work on a normal curve to predict the mean time before failure it means that some will go within a few months and others will last 15 years+.

Having said that; I've got an old Yamaha DVD player that had exactly these symptoms, so I shelved it and bought a replacement. I'll dig it out and follow your advice.

Will post again soon and let you know how it went.

Sláinte

midders

Ok, so I've spent half an hour pulling the Yamaha DVD player apart and cleaning the lens and the spindle; it was an absolute git to get to. I guess for safety reasons the laser is covered by a totally unnecessary piece of plastic; I was tempted to just cut this bit off, but in the end managed to get underneath it. Getting to the spindle was even harder but I eventually managed it by partially ejecting the tray whilst it was dismantled.

When the player was shelved a few years ago, it was rarely spinning up any disks even originals. OK now for the results; initial tests on Original DVD worked fine, Verbatim DVD+R worked fine, Verbatim DVD+R DL span up fine, but lost tracking about 30mins into a film. Now continuing to watch the same film on a crappy Ritek DVD+R and though it took some time to spin up, it's working alright so far.

I still think that the laser might be on it's way out (it used to play crappy cheap DVD+R DL no problem), but the cleaning has certainly helped and probably given it a new lease of life. I'll let you know how long it lasts.

Thanks for the tip SaintBaz

Sláinte

midders

SaintBaz's cleaning procedure is certainly the best choice(used it many times) but for the people who don't know one side of the screwdriver from another, or really just don't want to take the cover off their DVDR, I was able to clean 2 Pannys quite well using the following method:
I used this method on both a '05 ES-30 and a '06 ES-15, it should work on all Pannys and maybe other brands. What I did was press eject to get the tray out, then when the tray was out I unplugged the unit. I was then able to manually move the tray to a position that enabled me greatest access/view ability of the spindle. I then used both a cotton tipped and foam tipped swab(both worked equally well) with the long wooden handle to gently clean the lower spindle. I rolled the swab stick between my fingers while using a in and out motion while touching the spindle. It worked wonders and the spindle now looks clean and black. Previously it looked light and dust covered. After my cleaning I plugged back in my machines and both now never grind.
If I have easy access to the machines I still think I'll use the disassembly method since when I'm in the machine I can check other things such as overall cleandlieness of the inside of the machine, but for problem machines(I have 2 that are very hard to get to) I'll use the above method.

So for this method you'll need a long handled q-tip type device, preferable wooden so you can put more pressure on the spindle, a good bright smaller flashlight(a Stinger works great but a AA Mag light would also work fine) and finally some type of solvent(I used a isopropal based cleaner).

Hope this helps someone, and good luck!

just a note of thanks and an affirmation that your suggested fix seems to work for me, too. whew! slowly, everything was going wrong with my DMR-EZ17 until it died altogether the night before a day-long schedule of goodies i'd waited weeks to record. i cleaned the lens, and got a couple disks worth of recording, but, again, the machine died. while cleaning the lens, i'd noticed that the hub looked kind of cruddy, but i just gave it a puff of compressed air. who knew the importance of keeping the hub clean? i'm a smoker and i live in a dusty place and i was grateful to get 300-400 discs recorded before my machine got sick. so, i'm looking around, pricing new machines, when i run across your post. i'm grateful to you, english-boy.

My Panasonic DMR-E85H has also got stuck in a "Self check" loop after I fed it a DVD-R that it didn't enjoy. I haven't found any way to interrupt the loop or get the DVD out. (I'm pretty convinced it'll feel alright if I somehow manage to remove the disc.)

I opened the case but the DVD drive is in a black plastic enclosure that I had a hard time opening so I gave up... do you guys have any tips?

If it's the type with 4 screws in the black plastic and still seems stuck towards the back - there's an interlocking plastic clip at the back of the assembly. It doesn't lock too tight though, so once you've taken the screws out, don't be afraid to pull upwards on the black plastic lid and jiggle it about with a bit of force, towards the back of the machine. Sorry I can't be more technical but I've had that type of lid off many times and there really doesn't seem to be a technique.

If you still can't remove the drive cover get back in touch, and the next time I open one of those up i'll see if I can find a better method.

Saint Baz.

Most Panasonics with the black plastic DVD drives need to have the front panel removed to give enough clearance to lift the drive lid at the front, slide it forward enough to disengage at the rear and then the lid may be lifted off.

Before securing the drive lid back to the drive itself take care that the roller/slider assembly at the rear of the disc tray is positioned to the far left in order to correctly align with the guide rail on the underside of the lid.

The front panel may have an anchoring screw at the top center. Remove the screw and gently release the snap-clips at the top and on the sides. On the bottom are press-type release clips on some models, snap clips on other models.

Carefully align the clips when the front panel is fitted back to the case.

On models with VHS mechanisms hold the VHS door open as the front panel is fitted back to the case. This will align the VHS door lifting mechanism with the lifting tab on the VHS door itself.

---

Last edited by DigaDo; 30-08-2008 at 18:11.

Thanks for your quick replies guys! Yes, I also came to the conclusion that the front panel had to be removed, but that was easier than I anticipated.

DigaDo, I was really helped by your posts and managed to get my disc out. But I didn't really pay any attention to the roller/slider assembly at the rear of the disc tray that you mentioned. Hmm, the HDD part of the unit seems to work, I haven't dared to try tried discs yet.

I posted a reply and an image to your other thread.

Thanks again!

Doing this cleaning completely destroyed my ES25. Now all it does is flash “Please wait” and never functions at all. All I did was open it, and clean the components you mentioned, but that was all it took to kill the machine.

If anyone knows a fix for it or where I can order another ES25, please let me know.

Thanks

DirectorDD,

Were there operational/functional problems present before performing the hub/spindle/lens cleaning procedure on your DMR-ES25?

If you followed the detailed hub/spindle cleaning instructions, including Saint Baz' caution to be very gentle when cleaning the lens, none of these procedures, in themselves, should have any adverse affect on your machine.

Before replacing the DVD drive lid was the roller/slider positioned to the far left? Was the DVD drive lid properly secured with the screws near the corners? Was there any disturbance to the ribbon cables, their contacts/connections to the Digital PCB (found beside the DVD drive)?

"Please Wait" at power-up is normal. A Prolonged or non-clearing "Please Wait" at power-up may indicate certain problems. "Please Wait" may be displayed during the termination and restoration processes following a power failure or power interruption while the machine was in operation. If "Please Wait" disappears automatically there should be no problem. If "Please Wait" does not disappear there is a possible defect with the Digital PCB or with the DVD drive itself. If the "Quick Start" was enabled in the setup menu "Please Wait" may be displayed in other termination/restoration operations.

A non-clearing "Please Wait" may also indicate a problem with the power supply. Was the machine disconnected from the power source and other equipment before the procedure? Were the common cautions concerning static electricity discharge followed? Were any metallic tools allowed to touch power supply, main board or Digital PCB components? What is the condition of capacitors in the power supply section?

These are some of the considerations with a non-clearing "Please Wait."